3696 replies to this topic

[Like a Sir]

Gimpy Warpig, on 14 November 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you just failed to read the whole post, let me repost the pertinent part here for you:
"...sic...(and believe me, there are tons of them, you dont hear them because they arent here....BECAUSE ITS 1PV!)...sic"

They'll come, if 3pv was added. Did i really need to spell that out though?

There is a possibility that they will come, I will grant you that. Thing is, the game is free to play, so they will more then likely spend some time figuring out if they like it or not, before they invest any money in to it. Once they do, they will realize that there is no strafing and no dodging mechanic that some mechs move really slow and others take too long to kill... There is a damn good chance that at that point they will go to some game that also has 3pv, and all those other things. Without spending a penny on this... Does this sound improbable to anyone?

In case I am being too subtle, if they turn this in to a 3rd person shooter, MWO will have to compete with other 3rd person shooters, that do it much better. And with Hawken. Do you still think those people who come in for the 3pv will stay and proceed to spend money on this?

[Tarman]

If you add this feature I will never use it, nor ever play against anyone who uses it. For as long as the game is likely to live after you put this in, which up until now I had good hopes for. Now, not so sure. And if there is some way that I can't avoid people using it because they're too integrated into the game, or they become the majority of the population then I will leave it and ask for a refund, and go play MWLL.

Don't make me do this, I'd rather you continued with, maybe, your original game pillars instead of whatever bamboo straws you're replacing them with. Make a GOOD game, people will play it. People still play MW4, and if you kill this project you KNOW someone will necroprogram its guts into something anyway. At least get paid for the code people are going to play on.

The only thing you've done with this idea is to unite the vocal community, but in anger and disappointment. Not the best thing you've ever produced.

[Runz]

I need to caveat - third person for spectator mode? Yes - a decent spectator implementation is required.

3rd person for actually piloting your mech - NO, NEVER!

[Darklord]

If you want to help the new players and youre going to split up he player base why not have it set up as VWE did at the Battltech centers.
First time players saw a training video and had a walk thru of the controls.Then they were dropped into games with players with the same experince level as them 1-25 mission play in their own set of games anyone with 26 or mission were not allowed into those games.
Also have the torso lock for those games so they get the idea of how the basic game works then at mission 26 had the option to unlock the torso if they want.

[Kurayami]

interesting thought - people who cant control mech and those who wont play until d person added - do you people have driver license? cose you know, cars and all - they kinda dont have 3d person.

[NoRoo]

Extremely opposed to the idea of adding any 3rd person camera, segregating the player base into multiple groups should be avoided. The only argument Russ gave to support a third person camera was to smooth out the difficulty curve for new players. It seems to me a 5 minute tutorial, or single player piloting practice map that visually demonstrates the relationship between the torso and legs of a mech would be almost as effective, without any of the side effects.

I cringed when I heard the suggestion in the pod cast, but I'm relieved that this feedback thread was put up to discuss the issue. Thanks!

Edited by NoRoo, 14 November 2012 - 10:25 PM.

[Gimpy Warpig]

kalabaddon, on 14 November 2012 - 10:11 PM, said:

even with that in mind there should still be more people saying yes to it, this game is still in beta, now is the time for them to voice there opinions. I have asked several times to hear some positives about having 3rd person view.

instead of a "field of dreams" defense tell me some benefits that could be had from it?

The only reason that matters, it brings more people to the dance AND it doesn't hurt anybody who wants to continue to play in 1pv mode. AND it gives people who want to do BOTH, the ability to do both.

[kalabaddon]

Gimpy Warpig, on 14 November 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

Ah see, you edited and added content after I replied, so let me add: MWO has been dominated by 1pv fanatics (from NBT - which was a dead league but only just barely when this forums opened up primarily I think, but surely others as well) from Day 1. Additionally, MekTek were tightly involved with the devs of mwo in the early stages, and they as well were 1pv fanatics for the most part. If you were privvy to some of the discussions amongst 3pv teams when this stuff was starting to get rolling you'd know this same, tired...exhausting....argument of 1pv vs 3pv and the ridiculous heretical spewing of nasty anti-3pv crap from 1pv freaks, combined with MWO initially being ID'd/tabbed as "1pv ONLY!" has DEFINITELY turned hundreds away feeling MWO/PGI couldnt give a damn about them or what they wanted....

Then they extend a olive branch to us, and THIS CRAP is what the community gives them.

You should all be reveling in the fact that there is even a mech game at all to be playing, yet instead you're here hounding these forums and still hunting the proverbial white whale of the 3pv'er - and ultimately all it really boils down to for most of you is because you COULDNT COMPETE IN 3PV, and found a home with the other not-quite-as-good-as-3pv'ers in the 1pv "movement".

As far as "easy mode" and "arcade" comments - pathetic, its been shown numerous times that it takes more skill to be good at 3pv mech than 1pv...anyday of the week. Which isnt to say there isnt plenty of challenging things about 1pv, there are - and I love 1pv for nearly as many reasons as 3pv - but for me, I'd rather see the ABILITY TO DO BOTH incorporated and have yet to see a single post identifying a valid reason why not, other than splitting the user base a bit - which i think would be made up for with the additional players coming in.

I've said my peace, done for now.

LOL

dude I never even knew there where such large mechwarrior communities till I joined this game, I played mw4 by my lonesome and a LITTLE bit of mw2 also all by my self. I loved the games, but couldn't care less about online play, I am making my statements from a personal belief that any 3rd person would break the sim aspect of the game, that any way that 3rd person can make the game easier to play for new comers can be done by other means while retaining 1st person view.

I also never made an easy mode comment.

my thoughts is that if I was piloting a mech, I would be looking out of my cockpit.

that to add 3rd person would be a mistake not because a group of old time mechwarriors had a TIFF about it back in the days, but because I believe it to be true.

I have also asked SEVERAL times for some benefits that could be had from 3rd person and all i got was one response that said along the lines of "many" with out any more details.

[paladin yst]

I support 3rd person wholeheartedly. The terrains on many many, MANY narrow passages and urban fights are too difficult to navigate without it, obviously its fine for gameplay in a way but it was hugely exploited by light mechs circling, about time 3rd person view come.

[Krazzee]

No! Please, please do not implement a 3rd person view for combat. I would absolutely love to see a 3rd person view for spectator, or maybe for a training mode (which is something I think many would agree you should really implement instead), but not for combat. I love feeling like I am inside the mech, and I like that its forced that way. An option isn't the same, it ruins the feel.

[ArkS]

People must adapt to game, not the other way around. I'm tired of playing 3rd person games there are sooo many out there.

[Windies]

Rejarial Galatan, on 14 November 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

commie95, if they do this, then they become flat out liars, and alienate a GIGANTIC portion of potential money, and will lose a TON very quickly as they are flooded in the support department by e-mails wanting refunds of founds pack purchases, MC purchases. This is a financial blunder, and again, as this can never be said enough, from paul himself:


MechWarrior Online is being designed to put you the player in the seat of the pilot. It is 100% first person view only. Being the pilot is one of our key design pillars and 3rd person breaks that pillar on multiple levels as seen in many of the other 3rd Person discussions.

We will investigate 3rd person in the far off distance for special game settings, but this is very far off in the distance.

While we appreciate those who enjoy 3rd person, MWO will be 1st person out of the gate and in the near future.

-Paul
Lead Designer

When have they not been liars though? I will agree that up to this point there has been a justification of some sort as to why they implemented or did something in a way they said they would never do. This is simply the first thing they have announced implementing that really has no justification or grounds at all.

Also what money will they lose? Most everyone who was going to pay them, with the game the way that it was, already paid them. The beta was simply a hook to get the core fan base to pay out the *** pretty much. It worked and for the longest time people defended them and said " OMG PGI can do no wrong!!". Anyone who wanted to look outside their tie's or their vested interest in the IP could easily see what they were doing. It's good business sense but it's extremely lousy for the consumer or the player footing the bill.

Now they are trying to get money from an entirely different demographic. It's simply like a leech, when the host has no more blood the leech will move on and find another host.

Edited by Windies, 14 November 2012 - 10:36 PM.

[Like a Sir]

Gimpy Warpig, on 14 November 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

The only reason that matters, it brings more people to the dance AND it doesn't hurt anybody who wants to continue to play in 1pv mode. AND it gives people who want to do BOTH, the ability to do both.

It will take time and resources to implement first person view, it will then take time and resources to separate matchmaking then some more to figure out all the bugs and issues that will come with that... That is all the time that could be spent fixing the existing bugs, balancing weapons, and putting out more content... All that to satisfy 5%... How is this not hurting the 91% that doesn't want the 3pv?

[dpidcoe]

Brien, on 14 November 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:

If they give us 3rd person they should give us a refund option, I did not become a Founder to support Hawken I did it to support a Mech sim.

Can you not get refunds anymore? If so, why should PGI even bother listening to your opinion? They already made $120 off you, time to milk a different set of customers.

[kalabaddon]

Gimpy Warpig, on 14 November 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

The only reason that matters, it brings more people to the dance AND it doesn't hurt anybody who wants to continue to play in 1pv mode. AND it gives people who want to do BOTH, the ability to do both.

name another game that breaks the players down like that, people who play one way in this server only, those who play that way please play on this other server here.

it is not done becuase it does not work. if it did work they would be doing it, and lots of other games would split there user base the same way also.

only thing I can think of is mmorpgs with pvp and non pvp servers.

[JustPyro]

Just say no to 3rd person. This is MechWarrior. It's a Mech Simulator. There are other games out there for those that want 3rd person shooters. Even as a non "simulator" 3rd person and 1st person are different classes of games.

If it's going to be done, there should not be mixing of the groups. It presents a different game; different pluses and minuses to the ability to play the game.

However, I don't feel 3rd person should be available. Splitting parts of the player base just seems odd to do. You would need different Community Warfare for each side.

[Windies]

dpidcoe, on 14 November 2012 - 10:32 PM, said:

Can you not get refunds anymore? If so, why should PGI even bother listening to your opinion? They already made $120 off you, time to milk a different set of customers.

Oh lawd, someone else who gets it.

[Maleki]

Gimpy Warpig, on 14 November 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

Ah see, you edited and added content after I replied, so let me add: MWO has been dominated by 1pv fanatics (from NBT - which was a dead league but only just barely when this forums opened up primarily I think, but surely others as well) from Day 1. Additionally, MekTek were tightly involved with the devs of mwo in the early stages, and they as well were 1pv fanatics for the most part. If you were privvy to some of the discussions amongst 3pv teams when this stuff was starting to get rolling you'd know this same, tired...exhausting....argument of 1pv vs 3pv and the ridiculous heretical spewing of nasty anti-3pv crap from 1pv freaks, combined with MWO initially being ID'd/tabbed as "1pv ONLY!" has DEFINITELY turned hundreds away feeling MWO/PGI couldnt give a damn about them or what they wanted....

Then they extend a olive branch to us, and THIS CRAP is what the community gives them.

You should all be reveling in the fact that there is even a mech game at all to be playing, yet instead you're here hounding these forums and still hunting the proverbial white whale of the 3pv'er - and ultimately all it really boils down to for most of you is because you COULDNT COMPETE IN 3PV, and found a home with the other not-quite-as-good-as-3pv'ers in the 1pv "movement".

As far as "easy mode" and "arcade" comments - pathetic, its been shown numerous times that it takes more skill to be good at 3pv mech than 1pv...anyday of the week. Which isnt to say there isnt plenty of challenging things about 1pv, there are - and I love 1pv for nearly as many reasons as 3pv - but for me, I'd rather see the ABILITY TO DO BOTH incorporated and have yet to see a single post identifying a valid reason why not, other than splitting the user base a bit - which i think would be made up for with the additional players coming in.

I've said my peace, done for now.

You realize some of us "GASP" play both!?!

MWO is a sim style, 1pv really fits and has been very fun. 3pv seems silly but thats my view. I've played many 3pv games and 1pv as have 99.999999999999999942% of the people your calling 1pv fanatics.

As for "reveling", really? Its a product. As of the moment many of us are paying customers with a high chance of doing repeat business. This isn't the Word of Blake or something man. Its a game. I wont be "reveling" at this amazing product that im sure Billy Mays is telling me to purchase even now from the grave and being thankful for its very existance.

Yes Billy Mays, yes! I hear you! I shall revel as you command!

[Gimpy Warpig]

Like a Sir, on 14 November 2012 - 10:21 PM, said:

There is a possibility that they will come, I will grant you that. Thing is, the game is free to play, so they will more then likely spend some time figuring out if they like it or not, before they invest any money in to it. Once they do, they will realize that there is no strafing and no dodging mechanic that some mechs move really slow and others take too long to kill... There is a damn good chance that at that point they will go to some game that also has 3pv, and all those other things. Without spending a penny on this... Does this sound improbable to anyone?

In case I am being too subtle, if they turn this in to a 3rd person shooter, MWO will have to compete with other 3rd person shooters, that do it much better. And with Hawken. Do you still think those people who come in for the 3pv will stay and proceed to spend money on this?

Yeah, I think some would....Dunno how many. There's certainly quite a few rabid 3pv fans who are big fans of mech in general, though not sure exactly how many. Up to PGI to decide if there would be enough of them though... Good post.

Again though, whats the harm in adding it as long as its not intermingled? SURE, other more important stuff (IE, a LOBBY, More Maps, Game joining additions (which would be fixed with launchable lobby similiar to msn zone btw), more mechs, fixed bugs - those are all higher priority to me personally - should take priority imho, but I also imagine pgi wants to get a bigger audience and they think 3pv may help do that.

More people to shoot is a big + in my book.

(and darnit, now I really am done posting for tonight lol).

kalabaddon, on 14 November 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

LOL

dude I never even knew there where such large mechwarrior communities till I joined this game, I played mw4 by my lonesome and a LITTLE bit of mw2 also all by my self. I loved the games, but couldn't care less about online play, I am making my statements from a personal belief that any 3rd person would break the sim aspect of the game, that any way that 3rd person can make the game easier to play for new comers can be done by other means while retaining 1st person view.

I also never made an easy mode comment.

my thoughts is that if I was piloting a mech, I would be looking out of my cockpit.

that to add 3rd person would be a mistake not because a group of old time mechwarriors had a TIFF about it back in the days, but because I believe it to be true.

I have also asked SEVERAL times for some benefits that could be had from 3rd person and all i got was one response that said along the lines of "many" with out any more details.

Didn't mean to infer that you made those comments. Am trying to defend 3pv play from many "attackers", my response was aimed at multiple posts. Should have quoted more, sorry man.

[dpidcoe]

Windies, on 14 November 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

Oh lawd, someone else who gets it.

I got it after the first open beta announcement fiasco, people all raged at me then for posting that I got a refund.