33 replies to this topic

[Imagine Dragons]

Why not a complex tutorial instead?

[Ragor]

XenomorphZZ, on 14 November 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

Why not a complex tutorial instead?

This is no subject to depate IMO.

PGI wants 3rd person view in to attract more customers.

Reasonable fact.


Because of reality I personally favour a way of 3rd person stuff for tutorial purposes embedded in the 'real' game.

But I really want to keep 3rd person stuff out of the 'serious business' like community warfare and tournaments.

Edited by Ragor, 14 November 2012 - 02:24 PM.

[Wolven]

Personally, I'd want the simulator/testing ground system yesterday. Have it on 3d, have a setup for fighting bots or just having dumb targets sitting there, hell, if it could run locally on our own computers (within the client of course) it would be awesome.

Then you can use the same system for setting up a tutorial. If you want, I'll do the voiceovers for free, or lay out the map and text cues if you give me the tools.

3rd person, why not, for part of the tutorial and togglable for the simulator/setup testing grounds, but not for main gameplay, no. For spectator mode... Well, could be abused with VOIP, but probably not seriously.

We could also do with a proper replay system, one that lets us record matches for posterity and review them from the viewpoint of _all_ combatants.

[Arcturious]

As long as it is completely optional and will have zero impact on my game experience then I have no problem. My biggest thoughts are around the splitting of player base, and the amount of effort required to implement this feature.

Maybe my imagination is limited also. I just can't picture how a 3rd person would work. In a game where weapons have upwards of 500+ meters firing range, how does a 3rd person even see what they are aiming at?

Also, how will this affect the balance that currently exists with no rear vision? Someone in third person would see behind themselves. So you would be training people in a play style that isn't actually possible outside of that mode?

Would this then lead to them having to implement features into the "core" game in order to accommodate people who learnt how to play in 3rd person?

I honestly can't see how a 3rd person view will function. If you are zoomed way, way out in order to be able to target, then how is this any different from a game like Tactics? How does it handle targeting when your LOS is at an eagle view?

Will people start complaining that it is unrealistic that they can see the back of a hill but can't target the enemy there? Will they have to implement some form of "fog of war"?

I would love to see some reasoned conversations specifically focusing on how they could make this feature work, as I'm personally at a loss to see what benefits it would provide. Of course I'm not one of those people who have any difficulty with the standard controls - hell I'll JJ over you head while torso twisting in mid air to shoot your buddy while positioning my legs to run me back the way I came to screw with your targeting. I'm not the target audience for this change as I can't visualise how it will even function.

So I would love to read any actual examples people can provide as to how this would work? If I'm missing something I would like to know so I can maybe be talked around to try a 3rd person view myself and see what it's like.

Mockups from the Devs would be even better.

[Ragor]

Arcturious, on 14 November 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

As long as it is completely optional and will have zero impact on my game experience then I have no problem. My biggest thoughts are around the splitting of player base, and the amount of effort required to implement this feature.

Maybe my imagination is limited also. I just can't picture how a 3rd person would work. In a game where weapons have upwards of 500+ meters firing range, how does a 3rd person even see what they are aiming at?

Also, how will this affect the balance that currently exists with no rear vision? Someone in third person would see behind themselves. So you would be training people in a play style that isn't actually possible outside of that mode?

Would this then lead to them having to implement features into the "core" game in order to accommodate people who learnt how to play in 3rd person?

I honestly can't see how a 3rd person view will function. If you are zoomed way, way out in order to be able to target, then how is this any different from a game like Tactics? How does it handle targeting when your LOS is at an eagle view?

Will people start complaining that it is unrealistic that they can see the back of a hill but can't target the enemy there? Will they have to implement some form of "fog of war"?

I would love to see some reasoned conversations specifically focusing on how they could make this feature work, as I'm personally at a loss to see what benefits it would provide. Of course I'm not one of those people who have any difficulty with the standard controls - hell I'll JJ over you head while torso twisting in mid air to shoot your buddy while positioning my legs to run me back the way I came to screw with your targeting. I'm not the target audience for this change as I can't visualise how it will even function.

So I would love to read any actual examples people can provide as to how this would work? If I'm missing something I would like to know so I can maybe be talked around to try a 3rd person view myself and see what it's like.

Mockups from the Devs would be even better.

QFT, +1

[Chrithu]

If there needs to be 3rd Person I'd be ok with this implemention. But I am still questioning the actual reason for 3rd person. If it is just about newbs being unable to figure out torso vs. leg movement then there are a lot of ways to improve he indication of those things in the 1st person cockpit that should be tried first.

Implementing good 3rd person cameras is not an easy task and will take up manpower that'd be better used fixing bugs and bringing in much more needed features like a lobby with chat in the frontend and ingame voice chat for any kind of team.

[J4ck4l]

My thoughts on this:

Tutorial-system. Excellent idea, i am not sure in what form. But good tutorials in any games are a good idea and also a good way to get new players hooked. The better and more devised the tutorials are, the more players will want to play the real thing.
However my gut tells me no 3rd. person, see below:

3rd person view. I say a no go, perhaps only when spectating purposes (excellent for making eyecandy screenshots etc). One of the main reasons to not be able to use 3rd person in a battle or tutorial/trainingground would imho be skills of the pilots. Fighting as a Mechwarrior effectivly and efficiently means having a high level of awareness, perception if you will. Where are the enemies? Do i hear a friendly near me? Is that a Jenner around the corner? (sometimes i just hit the handbrake and just listen which way that ****** of a Jenner is running towards and ready the alpha strike.)
I fear when an 3rd person option for new players is available, then we run the risk that the new guys get used to it too much. (Imo a training course could consist out of walking a set patch while aiming at certain targets, like in MW2 or something.) The goal woud be getting the new players ready for torso vs. legs movement. I don't think it would help them if they aren't trained properly with the 1st. person/standaard viewmode and got some extra beginnershelp with a 3rd person view option instead.
Also, not sure if anyone noted this but... I think we are missing another vital issue here. The current compass and other HUD information isn't very clear about for instance torso direction vs. legs. I never look at them at all, as i (and any other mechwarrior with some experience) feels/knows where the legs are. Sure when we are drunk we forget, but still. But this is the no.1 source of information for a new players. For a new player to get used to this, maybe the HUD could aswell receive some upgrades. Which would improve the learning curve for new guys. (Maybe some sort of window with detailed torso vs. leg information, that can be disabled when no longer needed.)

Oof quite the long post. Here's to hoping i made some sense!

Regards

[StarfyrGuns]

Nope..don`t want to see it at all. Why?? for one thing, it`s not going to do anything but make new players reliant on 3rd. They`ll not "learn" anything from having a crutch IMO. And I`ve always been a believer in "give an inch-take a mile". And I feel that`s what this will do.

"I can`t do this in 1st..I NEEEED 3rd to play!!!" What do you think will happen then?

[Aesaar]

Dagger906, on 14 November 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:

If you don't like Mechwarrior heritage, go play Hawken.

That's got to be a new one: "If you don't like 3rd person view because it lets people get info they wouldn't have if they were viewing from the cockpit like they should be, go play Hawken."

Previous MW games were also races to Assault mechs. Should we have that again because that's how they did it?

[Ragor]

Where is your issue to allow others players to get into the game a way they can handle since it wouldn't change your game at all?

[Aesaar]

It would change everyone's game, though. Suddenly, people can look around corners and over hills without exposing themselves, which would allow scouts to relay info to their teammates without risk. Even if relaying targeting info isn't allowed unless your head actually has line of sight, it matters. It also allows people to see behind them, so light mechs can't sit in a blind spot and exploit someone's lack of situational awareness.

Edited by Aesaar, 15 November 2012 - 08:01 AM.

[Ragor]

Aesaar, on 15 November 2012 - 07:59 AM, said:

It would change everyone's game, though. Suddenly, people can look around corners and over hills without exposing themselves, which would allow scouts to relay info to their teammates without risk. Even if relaying targeting info isn't allowed unless your head actually has line of sight, it matters. It also allows people to see behind them, so light mechs can't sit in a blind spot and exploit someone's lack of situational awareness.

There's one way I'd be fine with it: Aiming and convergence adjusting according to where your crosshairs would be sitting if you were in 1st person, and prevent people from switching perspectives while in a game. Advantages and disadvantages.

No it wouldn't. SINCE THERE WOULD BE A SEPERATE SERVER FOR 1st PERSON PLAYERS AND 3RD PERSON PLAYERS. THAT'S AT LEAST HOW IT WAS ANNOUNCED IN THE PODCAST. AND NOTHING ELSE.

Damn witchhunt.

[Gimpy Warpig]

Make 3pv an option - all or nothing. Limiting it to training mode is horrible idea. Simply make it selectable as a gametype, and move along.

[Demoned]

i like this idea alot XD
just made my own suggestion for having a hologram mech in the cockpit showing
the orientation of your own mech XP

so its not 3rd person but at least newbies can tell which way torso or legs are facing at any given time

but plus 1 OP good idea