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How To Reduce The Grind And Create A Great New User Experience


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#181 MaddMaxx

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:28 AM

Quote

385xl


Just curious. The 9M does not come stock with a 385xl right? How did you afford that 6 million C-Bill engine upgrade?. Then state the game has some form of brutal Grind?

What am I missing?

P.S. Some form of Tutorial Completion Bonus would be totally acceptable...

#182 Bors Mistral

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:28 AM

Some good ideas there, but when it comes to "creating a great new player experience", there's one simple thing that needs to be done.

Do not use "canon" variants for the trial mechs. Modify them to be a step more efficient, and don't let trial stuff roll out with heat efficiency of less than 1.1 -> so, take the time to customize the trials, PGI.

Also, consider letting new players take a "loan" on their first small to medium-sized mech. Give it to them, deduct 60% of NET winnings to pay it out. They won't be able to sell it before it's paid off, but they should be able to "give up" on it early if it turns out it doesn't fit their playstile.

Also, arena and a real tutorial at some point, pretty please.

#183 Taryys

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:38 AM

added "... and replace with a win loss multiplier (win x 1.5; loss x 1.0 or whatever) or get rid of it altogether"

#184 Taryys

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:44 AM

I feel your pain here, however, that is not going to happen. =( Canon variants will be used, because they are canon.
If they use my suggestions, the inefficient and suboptimal mechs will be great learning tools, to which they can modify and learn from.


My opposition for the mortgage mech idea is similar to the my opposition to just giving them a mech to start.


View PostBors Mistral, on 28 November 2012 - 10:28 AM, said:

Some good ideas there, but when it comes to "creating a great new player experience", there's one simple thing that needs to be done.

Do not use "canon" variants for the trial mechs. Modify them to be a step more efficient, and don't let trial stuff roll out with heat efficiency of less than 1.1 -> so, take the time to customize the trials, PGI.

Also, consider letting new players take a "loan" on their first small to medium-sized mech. Give it to them, deduct 60% of NET winnings to pay it out. They won't be able to sell it before it's paid off, but they should be able to "give up" on it early if it turns out it doesn't fit their playstile.

Also, arena and a real tutorial at some point, pretty please.


Most of my changes would fix the AFK/Suicide/Bot farming completely.


View PostWizywig, on 28 November 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

In any case, would love to hear feedback.


#185 Matte Black

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:47 AM

Taryys, I have seen you link this so many times and I never really bothered to look at it until today, Good post man. :angry:

#186 Taryys

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:51 AM

Interesting thought...
I think if the rate of twist was equal to the normal torso twist rate, this would not be an issue.
It would not be a snap just and auto-rotate function.



View PostIllydth, on 27 November 2012 - 11:04 PM, said:

I'm sure this has been either mentioned or thought of...however:

Auto-rotate Legs to Torso doesn't work...it would create a "speed turn" hack automatically.

Flick your mouse right or left to speed torso twist and hit the "center" button to immediately turn your mech on a dime.


LOL! Yea, thanks man!

That is is partially why I thread-***** it around so much, since some people have not seen it, and those that who have seen and not taken the time to read it will give in a finally take look!



View PostMatte Black, on 28 November 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

Taryys, I have seen you link this so many times and I never really bothered to look at it until today, Good post man. :angry:


The reward system does need some rework as I mention in my post, but I do not think a complete bottoms-up rework is needed.

I am not going to get into the skill tree. There are plenty of other threads for that discussion.

View PostOrkhepaj, on 28 November 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

The reward system should be redone completly , also the xp (skill tree). The first doesnt support actual play just number of matches with too much difference between victory/defeat. The late is just lackluster and doenst inspire to unlock the next thingy.


#187 Matte Black

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:55 AM

Legs to Torso is one of the important missing commands in this game. Rotation rate would need to stay the same though.

I have said before, not once in any of my Meching years have I wanted to turn my torso to my legs with a button, I have used legs to torso many times in past games. Turning your chassis to the direction of the enemy you are aiming at is a standard combat move.

Goes something like "Contact North" turn guns. "Action Right" turn hulls and assult forward. Armor guys will get it. :angry:

#188 Mazikar

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 05:33 PM

awesome ideas, good work bro

#189 Lyrik

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:21 AM

View PostBDU Havoc, on 28 November 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

I'd like to add a reward for completing the tutorials and training area, maybe a 1 week worth of premium time for completion of the tutorial, and 5 days for completing the training area?

1 time use per account.


Nice idea. That's a good incentive to get new players to play the tutorial .

#190 Jessie the Android

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 01:41 PM

This thread has so many good ideas that I don't feel like I can actually add anything that hasn't already been mentioned in one form or another. PGI, you really should consider at least a few of these options to start with. Throw them on the roadmap somewhere.

#191 Fate 6

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 01:53 PM

/singed

#192 Martini Henrie

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 03:42 PM

Good thread, I agree broadly with what is being said here.

#193 John MatriX82

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 03:47 PM

Good thread. We absolutely need a practice arena/training ground. Having it to work also offline would be of extreme help for anybody, just to test how the game runs, how your build runs hot and combined with an in-game tutorial.. it would totally help newbies and vets willing to experiment their mechbuilds.

The solution to the above is 3rd person? Oh dear..

#194 Hayashi

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 03:49 PM

Start the 1 week free premium time as the reward for completion of the tutorial. That settles both with one stroke.

I've an issue with restricting to Tier 1 tech, as some Tier 2 Tech is available on Trials. For example, Gauss rifles on the Atlas K. I'd disable ES, FF, engine, Artemis, ECM, Beagle and weapon changes, but allow them to change ammo loadouts, add heat sinks and change armour allocation. Basically, allow them to 'remove' existing weapons on the trials, but not add new ones. Throw in a 'Restore Defaults' to allow people to get back what they had prior to customisation. This will allow people to raise heat efficiency or longevity at the cost of firepower, but will disable the full functionality until they get their own Mech.

GXP with trials seems like a good idea. It'd make the idea of grinding in a trial to the first Mech of their choice more acceptable, instead of the current system where the best idea even if you like Atlases is generally to grind to a Commando, purchase that, and grind in the Commando to an Atlas.

As for AFK farming, the proposed solution doesn't really solve things much. If one reduces the repair % things actually get worse - they'd die faster and have faster turnaround time. I'm of the opinion that the best solution to this really is for the PGI Game Masters to ban such accounts, and make the bans known as a way to discourage people from doing this. If anything, allowing Trial customisation is more effective at curbing AFK farming than disabling % repair is.

I'd like to see ammo costs for the whole cut by 4 times, and the 75% rearm to be disabled - so the overall costs remain similar, but the ability to exploit the process to be removed. Though Artemis LRMs should have a further cost reduction on top of this, since they're simply not economically viable at the moment - and not even powerful enough to justify that cost. Repair can stay at the 75% mark.

I'm not in agreement of role selection in the MechLab, this will discourage players from switching roles to benefit their teams as situations change. However, I would like more types of credit to be given - damage taken (tanking), damage assistance (via TAG or NARC at 50% the reward rate of personal damage), defending the base (standing in your own square to prevent an enemy cap), defending a teammate (dealing damage to a target which is firing on a teammate with < 50% health), et cetera.

And to add a way to use a key and the mouse to select a quick chat from a wheel. Very similar to the Left 4 Dead system. One of them would be 'personal chat' and one of them would be 'commander chat', the second only available when you 'take command' from the battlegrid. The personal one would include options along the lines of 'enemy spotted' - which also auto-embeds the grid location of the active target into the chat, 'base is under attack', 'all clear', 'help', 'I'm scouting', etc. The command one would include stuff like 'Attack this target' - which auto includes the target letter of the commander's active target, 'capture enemy base', 'defend our base', 'take cover', 'hold your positions' and whatnot.

Also, it would be nice if the radar display indicated a number or letter next to each Mech symbol. Friendlies to be designated with numbers, enemies to be designated with letters. When chatting in team chat or using the quick chat wheel, the number of the friendly can then be prefaced with the name, like '(3) Hayashi (Commander): Attack target C.' And since target C is indicated on the minimap with a C, they won't have to bring up their battlegrid or cycle targets to know what I'm talking about.

The reason for this kind of thing is not everyone has a microphone or can play with sound active, and it takes too long to type to use that effectively in fast combat. But wheel commands can be activated within half a second.

Edited by Hayashi, 29 November 2012 - 04:05 PM.


#195 Pr8Dator

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 03:56 PM

They should simply have a "Trial Mechs Only" game mode hehehe

#196 Spirit of the Wolf

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:48 PM

I'll be honest here:
I didn't read all of this before posting.

I still support it. I say this as a legendary founder: the reward system needs work; the whole economy needs work.
It only needs a little tweak for people playing as premium & in groups, but for single players who PUG, it REALLY needs some changes.

I honestly have settled in to this already, but newer players won't want to go through this.

#197 Taryys

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:08 AM

Hayashi, curse you and a well reasoned post. I will address your post later after I have had a chance to consider your points.

View PostHayashi, on 29 November 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

Start the 1 week free premium time as the reward for completion of the tutorial. That settles both with one stroke.

I've an issue with restricting to Tier 1 tech, as some Tier 2 Tech is available on Trials. For example, Gauss rifles on the Atlas K. I'd disable ES

.....


I disagree with putting trials in their own queue for the below stated reasons

Quote

DO NOT ... put trial mechs in their own queue: putting trial mechs in a trial queue will create another set of problems, simply because vet players can also use or may need to use trial mechs. Vet players who are trying to game the system may try to jump into a trial mech to try to frag some newbs to make some easy money and destroy the game for others. We also cannot get rid of access to Trial Mechs for veteran players since they also may them if they spend all of their cash on a new mech, or expensive upgrades, and then take significant losses while not being able to cover their Repair and Rearm costs. Plus the Trial Mechs are a way for people to test drive new mechs that they do not currently have access to.



View PostPr8Dator, on 29 November 2012 - 03:56 PM, said:

They should simply have a "Trial Mechs Only" game mode hehehe


#198 Impossible Wasabi

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:12 AM

Looking at other F2P games, the Space Pope finds himself rather disappointed by the way things currently are in MWO both in regards to the grind and how new players experience the game.

It is a terrible day when SOE seems to be more friendly and encouraging towards new players even those who do not pay than PGI.

Edited by Merlevade, 30 November 2012 - 07:13 AM.


#199 Imagine Dragons

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:27 AM

View PostTaryys, on 30 November 2012 - 07:08 AM, said:

I disagree with putting trials in their own queue for the below stated reasons


Putting a serial killer in the body of a sheep doesn't make him a serial killer sheep...

... I think I explained that wrong...

Anyway, IMO I don't think that letting experienced players into the trial mech only queue would be game breaking... if anything new players would benefit watching more experienced players handle the heat managment...

#200 Taryys

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:40 AM

True in a sense, but it also makes is significantly less fun for the vet who can mindlessly slaughter sheep, when he can more then competently run with the wolves in a modifiable trial mech.

It is also not fun for newbs to get single-handedly steamrolled by a master vet player in a trial mech.

I also like the general idea allowing people from a slightly broader range of skills into a match.
You have less skilled players in with more skilled players so we have a slightly diverse range of skills on the same team.
I am not talking vets and newbs, but people within 5 - 10% (or whatever) of the approximate skill level for just the purposes you mention.

The combo of a stat based matchmaking and modifiable trials for everyone is a good idea and will solve many problems.



View PostXenomorphZZ, on 30 November 2012 - 07:27 AM, said:

Putting a serial killer in the body of a sheep doesn't make him a serial killer sheep...

... I think I explained that wrong...

Anyway, IMO I don't think that letting experienced players into the trial mech only queue would be game breaking... if anything new players would benefit watching more experienced players handle the heat managment...






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