311 replies to this topic

[Hayashi]

PANZERBUNNY, on 03 December 2012 - 06:49 AM, said:

Apparently there's grind in this game or as normal people call it, "playing the game". I think arcade style COD games have ruined generations of gamers to come.

Well, and the swarm of Korean MMORPGs that give grind a very negative connotation.

[Taryys]

Honestly, "Playing the game" does not really happen until people get into their own mech and can fully make their own choices. The grind is really a painful learning process that can be made less painful, more useful to the new player, and to the community at large.

PANZERBUNNY, on 03 December 2012 - 06:49 AM, said:

Apparently there's grind in this game or as normal people call it, "playing the game".

I think arcade style COD games have ruined generations of gamers to come.

Can you elaborate on that, since I have no clue what you are talking about?

Hayashi, on 03 December 2012 - 06:53 AM, said:

Well, and the swarm of Korean MMORPGs that give grind a very negative connotation.

[Hayashi]

Taryys, on 03 December 2012 - 07:33 AM, said:

Can you elaborate on that, since I have no clue what you are talking about?

People used to love 'grinding', as it were, in RPGs. There were people who would grind for hours on end killing the same mobs for enough levels/statistics to fight Ruby Weapon or Dark Ixion. It meant the gameplay experience could last as long as you wanted it to, and yet you can opt out of it and finish the storyline if that was what you were after, and still have the feeling of 'completing the game'.

Action games had gems, secrets, whatnot that you had to try hard to achieve. Crash Bandicoot Warped's completion was 105% - only possible by getting platinum rating on every map.

More recently, when the technology was made available to them, the Korean MMORPG makers started making a lot of very similar looking and similar gameplay MMORPGs, in which you grind only to have more or less the same thing over and over again. And there's no real storyline endpoint at which people could 'finish the game' without grinding to the maximum level. The Korean studios (e.g. MapleStory being one of the most successful ones) are hardly the only people who incorporated grind like this, but they made it the whole idea of gameplay - grind deified. Also, gameplay didn't change like early RPGs did, where you get new spells, very new locations and storyline advancement. This new class of grinding included fetchquests that operate around Holy MacGuffins, and you use very similar spells - sometimes, identical spells at higher levels - on very similar enemies (from pig to ribbon pig to wild boar to fire boar to iron boar etc... they're all pigs!).

This started a wave of dislike against grinding in the MMORPG form, which extended to grind in general.

There have been some other MMOs who did the same thing as well, though, after observing the success of the Korean MMORPG maker studios. Like RuneScape - which instituted a skill with level 120 cap (107 MILLION xp) for its latest skill - prior to that, all previous skills were capped at 99 (13 Million, basically 1/8).

I have a 25x 99 Runescape account and liked the process of getting most of it, but gave up after that because the prospect of going from level 102 to 120 is unthinkably boring.

Edited by Hayashi, 03 December 2012 - 07:43 AM.

[Taryys]

Thanks for the info.

Hayashi, on 03 December 2012 - 07:40 AM, said:

People used to love 'grinding', as it were, in RPGs. There were people who would grind for hours on end killing the same mobs for enough levels/statistics to fight Ruby Weapon or Dark Ixion. It meant the gameplay experience could last as long as

...

[Super Mono]

It's just a robot shooting game, players should start off with a mech so they can get into the meat of the game as soon as possible. Repair and rearm is completely overblown for a simple arena-shooter, shelve the whole thing and re-introduce it for community warfare. Player's shouldn't have to worry about losing money for playing a simple pick-up game.

The game doesn't need a ridiculous grind to make money, it needs players it can sell content to and the grind is driving them away.

[Taryys]

Honestly, the trial mechs give them 4 mechs to chose from.
They need to have R&R and Rewards in the game now so that they can fix and balance it prior to CW, otherwise CW will be a complete mess because the R&R/Rewards will not be balanced, and CW/Factions will most likely modify that process a bit.

Super Mono, on 03 December 2012 - 08:09 AM, said:

It's just a robot shooting game, players should start off with a mech so they can get into the meat of the game as soon as possible. Repair and rearm is completely overblown for a simple arena-shooter, shelve the whole thing and re-introduce it for community warfare. Player's shouldn't have to worry about losing money for playing a simple pick-up game.

The game doesn't need a ridiculous grind to make money, it needs players it can sell content to and the grind is driving them away.

[Watchit]

Super Mono, on 03 December 2012 - 08:09 AM, said:

It's just a robot shooting game, players should start off with a mech so they can get into the meat of the game as soon as possible. Repair and rearm is completely overblown for a simple arena-shooter, shelve the whole thing and re-introduce it for community warfare. Player's shouldn't have to worry about losing money for playing a simple pick-up game.

The game doesn't need a ridiculous grind to make money, it needs players it can sell content to and the grind is driving them away.

I disagree. The repair and rearm, among other things, is what makes this a Mechwarrior game, and makes it more immersive. It's what differentiates it from other so called "arean-shooters". Plus it rewards players for not running head first into the enemy without thinking, which unfortunately trail mechs don't give new players a feeling for.

[Taryys]

Yea, I yoinked the multiplier from another thread.
Good to know that I am not the only one.

[David Decoster]

To the OP: good points, well made.
/salute

[Imagine Dragons]

Grinding?

Play NavyField as a noob.

Nothing like grinding ships and sailors for months... just to join a clan and have a vetern player to you that you specced your sailors wrong, have the wrong ratio of sailors, and have to start all over again with a new crew...

[Quinid]

I agree with a couple of your ideas. I am very much against bots, In fact I will go out of my way to record and report them, Making the game a less grind not only hurts the MC purchasing model, it also makes it faster for a bot to farm what he needs before he gets caught. I will say tho, some of the items are a bit expensive for what they do, i.e paint and Christmas decorations. However I do like the trial mech only matches idea. It would make it less rage quit frustrating to noobs. But at the same time, bots would run wild in those matches I am sure.

[CypherHalo]

Love nearly all your ideas. Disagree with locking torso to legs. Yeah, it takes some time to get used to torso twisting but this game isn't Hawken, it's slow-paced enough that you won't die in a blink so I think people can take the time to get used to managing the system. What they need is respawns, so a screw-up on your part doesn't immediately mean you're done with the match.

Also, disagree with you on giving a free mech. I think PGI should show that kind of generosity and that it would generate goodwill from the players.

Tutorial is DESPERATELY NEEDED. If I were PGI this would be priority #1, I simply do not get why this is not a bigger deal for them.

Otherwise, pretty much agree with all your ideas, thanks for posting!

P.S. the idea of a practice area for mechs is great!

[CypherHalo]

Super Mono, on 03 December 2012 - 08:09 AM, said:

It's just a robot shooting game, players should start off with a mech so they can get into the meat of the game as soon as possible. Repair and rearm is completely overblown for a simple arena-shooter, shelve the whole thing and re-introduce it for community warfare. Player's shouldn't have to worry about losing money for playing a simple pick-up game.

The game doesn't need a ridiculous grind to make money, it needs players it can sell content to and the grind is driving them away.

Yes sir. I don't know if they need to eliminate repair/rearm costs but they need some serious work. Particularly heavy and assaults, their repair bills are simply too high.

Honestly, your idea of eliminating it and moving it to community warfare is tempting, on 2nd thought. If a person just wants to play a pick-up game, it's annoying to possibly lose money because you were destroyed. Especially if you get destroyed while helping your team (sacrifice yourself to save a buddy for instance). I don't really see what good the repair/rearm costs add to the game. When MW was single-player it made some sense b/c you were running a campaign and thus it fit into the plot and also made sense gameplay-wise. Here? Not so much, plus the costs are too high. I never worried much about repair/rearm costs in MW4, but in this game, they were killer, just wiping me out, especially when I ran a heavy mech.

[Packetl0ss]

Love the thought of the client side practice arena. I've often wished I could test out a new mech loadout before going into a battlefield

[RickySpanish]

Signed and bumped!

[Josh Davion]

+1, Mate. PGI, please take a look!

[TruePoindexter]

Why hadn't I seen this before? Glaucoma? Ignorance? Laziness? I'm thinking that last one.

Excellent post and ideas Taryys!

[PurpleNinja]

Since everyone is bumping...



Good topic BTW.

[Taryys]

I am curious about this too.
I throw this thread around enough that some people are getting test with me.

I am glad you like it!

TruePoindexter, on 06 December 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

Why hadn't I seen this before? Glaucoma? Ignorance? Laziness? I'm thinking that last one.

[Elandyll]

Signed, most of what's proposed is a good option. Ideally combined with a choice of Pug only, any size pre made, or 8v8 only, but I'm probably dreaming.