152 replies to this topic

[James The Fox Dixon]

Terick, on 15 November 2012 - 06:19 AM, said:

Snip

Not a solution. Try again. WHERE IS YOUR SOLUTION?

[James The Fox Dixon]

ForceUser, on 15 November 2012 - 06:20 AM, said:

I dunno, the system currently in place is decent, needs a bit of tweaking to be sure but since I have not yet played without premium time (Should be soon now though when the 'free' time runs out) I'll need to get back to you on that.

All I know is that with premium time I've managed to buy and outfit 3 mediums, 2 heavies and an assault while selling one of those mediums and heavies and any equipment I don't use on any of my mechs in 333 games.

Someone without premium time would need to play 500 matches to match that.

Sure beats the snot out of WOT that's for sure.

So you are replying based solely upon founders/premium time and are biased about it. Try making a free account and see if from the other side. I bought premium time for a day for comparison purposes. Now, if you had read the actual first post you would see that I said that founders and premium members should make more and that is how it should be.

Currently, the game has only two options to spend cash on: Mechs and Mech Bay slots. Mech bay slots would be a better option for PGI to generate revenue. If a free player doesn't make enough in game cash they won't be willing to spend real cash for mech bay slots because they don't need to as they do not have an abundance of mechs and PGI doesn't make money. It's pretty simple and is part of the bigger problem. In order to resolve the problems you have to look at the entire issue and all of its causes.

Where is your solution to all these problems?

Edited by James The Fox Dixon, 15 November 2012 - 06:25 AM.

[Terick]

James The Fox Dixon, on 15 November 2012 - 05:59 AM, said:

Not pertinent to the current discussion, so you're trolling.

That is wrong. The discussion is on pay. You make money based on your pay minus your expenses. You want to take the advanced gear and drive up your expenses... your choice, but your footing the bill. The house is giving you a contract to accomplish x task. You have a contract. I get the same contract and don't take the expensive gear. Our team wins. The house gave us the same contract... you got cored with an XL engine, I got cored with a standard engine. Only core damage. You have a bigger bill. We both lost our mechs. WHY should the house pay more because you took something that would cost more to repair then I did?

[James The Fox Dixon]

Terick, on 15 November 2012 - 06:25 AM, said:

That is wrong. The discussion is on pay. You make money based on your pay minus your expenses. You want to take the advanced gear and drive up your expenses... your choice, but your footing the bill. The house is giving you a contract to accomplish x task. You have a contract. I get the same contract and don't take the expensive gear. Our team wins. The house gave us the same contract... you got cored with an XL engine, I got cored with a standard engine. Only core damage. You have a bigger bill. We both lost our mechs. WHY should the house pay more because you took something that would cost more to repair then I did?

No lore so disregarded.

[Joseph Mallan]

James The Fox Dixon, on 15 November 2012 - 06:14 AM, said:

WHERE IS YOUR SOLUTION?



Which comes from the Creating a Mercenary Unit chapter not the contract chapter. Salary falls under Overhead in the Contract chapter. Next.

Right. So what are you going to give up for better pay? Your Salvage rights? Your Repair rights? Oh I know! Your Transport rights! Cause we aren't even paying for that right now. Have you calculated the shipping cost of a Mech on an assault 5 jumps away? Like I said I know these rules James. If you are not the defender you had to jump into the system, possible using a Pirate point. Pirate points are dangerous to use and so much more expensive. How much did you pay to get to the planet you are assaulting/raiding? Was it subtracted from your after action pay?

[ForceUser]

My solutions would be to not use this one.

In addition, it would involve examining the current system and suggest minor, basic tweaks in the remote case that PGI has not already thought of them or planning to implement them. Player feedback is valuable (should be at least) and I've seen it do some amazing things in other games, but these involve tweaks and ideas regarding the existing system.

A solution where you take the current system and potentially YEARS of development and rip it out is just plain crazy. That's why I'm not in favor of any kind of 'whole sale overhaul solution'

Still when something like this thread and/or user pops up I'm always afraid that it'll somehow gain traction by the post/poster being able to hide certain things. Heck there were quite a few supporters/defenders at the beginning of the thread. Once it/him is better scrutinized you have all the facts. Then the house of cards come tumbling down.

Edited by ForceUser, 15 November 2012 - 06:35 AM.

[James The Fox Dixon]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 November 2012 - 06:27 AM, said:

Right. So what are you going to give up for better pay? Your Salvage rights? Your Repair rights? Oh I know! Your Transport rights! Cause we aren't even paying for that right now. Have you calculated the shipping cost of a Mech on an assault 5 jumps away? Like I said I know these rules James. If you are not the defender you had to jump into the system, possible using a Pirate point. Pirate points are dangerous to use and so much more expensive. How much did you pay to get to the planet you are assaulting/raiding? Was it subtracted from your after action pay?

Disregarded since it ignores the limitations imposed by the current system.

[Terick]

James The Fox Dixon, on 15 November 2012 - 06:20 AM, said:

Not a solution. Try again. WHERE IS YOUR SOLUTION?

The solution is to make minor tweaks the pay. Not revise the whole thing.

I don't have premium time. I've played with no bonuses to see what it is like and to test it to give good feedback. Will tehy listen to me, that is their choice.

On the other hand I have played a LOT of TT and the chances of me using an XL engine or FF... the limit is approaching zero. Both things aren't worth the cost.

Endo steel, great stuff. Almost mandatory on any advanced design.

You need to realize you don't NEED more mech bays, you don't NEED to be piloting a heavy or salt. If your interested in following BT lore... heavies should be uncommon an salts rare... this will help keep it that way.

[Terror Teddy]

James The Fox Dixon, on 15 November 2012 - 06:26 AM, said:

No lore so disregarded.

You present a lore based solution to in-game pay. When a question is raised in regard to your idea in how it affects the game you revert back to if no lore is included in the reply then the question is disregarded?

Do you even WANT to discuss your proposal or do you want us to fill the posts with lore that defends your idea or goes against your idea without questioning it's effect on the game?

It's a bit difficult to discuss the subject since WE get no feedback from YOU.

[Terick]

James The Fox Dixon, on 15 November 2012 - 06:26 AM, said:

No lore so disregarded.

Translation, you don't like it so disregard.

[James The Fox Dixon]

ForceUser, on 15 November 2012 - 06:28 AM, said:

I don't have a solution.

So you have no solution and are here to flame a proposal to ensure that the game doesn't improve. I figured that one out in the first post you made. It's nice of you to come clean about it, so we can disregard everything you've said in this thread. You don't have a solution, but when you come up with one let me know so I can read it.

[Joseph Mallan]

James's suggestion will work once the Metagame is in place. I have an Excel spread sheet that can calculate all this and there is a Merc Contract generator that can spit out contracts in seconds. The resources are there to get the pay system whipped into shape really quick.

[James The Fox Dixon]

Terror Teddy, on 15 November 2012 - 06:30 AM, said:

You present a lore based solution to in-game pay. When a question is raised in regard to your idea in how it affects the game you revert back to if no lore is included in the reply then the question is disregarded?

Do you even WANT to discuss your proposal or do you want us to fill the posts with lore that defends your idea or goes against your idea without questioning it's effect on the game?

It's a bit difficult to discuss the subject since WE get no feedback from YOU.

No solution so you're trolling. Where is your solution Teddy? I've asked you four times now and gave you ample time to develop one. Arguing for the sake of arguing is a lot easier and requires a lot less thought.

[Terror Teddy]

James The Fox Dixon, on 15 November 2012 - 06:29 AM, said:

Disregarded since it ignores the limitations imposed by the current system.

So now you disregard the logic of someone who has WRITTEN part of the LORE because NOW it impacts the game. You disregard the one argument FILLED WITH LORE:

Now we suddenly see a reversal in your handling on tough questions.

Edited by Terror Teddy, 15 November 2012 - 06:36 AM.

[Esarai]

James The Fox Dixon, on 15 November 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

So far you nor anyone else has brought anything up pertinent to the discussion and in the context of the original post.

Sorry, but last I checked qualitative arguments are still valid. And as much as I would like to discuss this topic, I'm not going to because reading the last 4 pages has led me to the conclusion that the one who is trolling here is you, James. Everyone who you just said 'hasn't brought anything up pertinent to the discussion' have actually made very valid qualitative analyses of the effect the rules proposed in the OP would have on gameplay and the metagame, and each time you have dodged the question or utilized ad hominem attacks as a means to evade the blatantly obvious flaws in this plan. It's embarrassing and detrimental to actual discussion for you to be so evasive and condescending towards your fellow players, especially when they have actually said your idea has merit and are interested in having a discussion intended to arrive at an optimal solution.

I'm out.

[James The Fox Dixon]

Terick, on 15 November 2012 - 06:30 AM, said:

Translation, you don't like it so disregard.

Nope, I disregarded it because it isn't lore based.

[Joseph Mallan]

James The Fox Dixon, on 15 November 2012 - 06:29 AM, said:

Disregarded since it ignores the limitations imposed by the current system.

LOL So you only want to hear your own idea praised. The limitations of the the current system is already over paying us by a factor of at least 10.

[Terror Teddy]

James The Fox Dixon, on 15 November 2012 - 06:33 AM, said:

No solution so you're trolling. Where is your solution Teddy? I've asked you four times now and gave you ample time to develop one. Arguing for the sake of arguing is a lot easier and requires a lot less thought.

[redacted]

When *I* ask you something then I wonder if YOU have a solution. Ergo, I wondered if you had already taken these problems into account.

Edited by Chris K, 15 November 2012 - 09:38 AM.
offensive

[James The Fox Dixon]

Terror Teddy, on 15 November 2012 - 06:33 AM, said:

So now you disregard the logic of someone who has WRITTEN part of the LORE because NOW it impacts the game.

Now we suddenly see a reversal in your handling on tough questions.

Nope, I disregarded it because it ignores what is currently in MW:O. That makes it not pertinent.

Joseph Mallan, on 15 November 2012 - 06:34 AM, said:

LOL So you only want to hear your own idea praised. The limitations of the the current system is already over paying us by a factor of at least 10.

Define who us is.

[Terick]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 November 2012 - 06:32 AM, said:

James's suggestion will work once the Metagame is in place. I have an Excel spread sheet that can calculate all this and there is a Merc Contract generator that can spit out contracts in seconds. The resources are there to get the pay system whipped into shape really quick.

I know system can easily be crunched. I just don't support this system, and I thought the pay system when it was implemented was terrible in TT also.

The system was broken in TT, why bring over another broken thing from TT?