18 replies to this topic

[Kalthios]

The RVN-4X needs it, thank you. Buff flamers while you're at it too please.

Edited by Kalthios, 15 November 2012 - 10:14 AM.

[Roadbuster]

Kalthios, on 15 November 2012 - 06:28 AM, said:

The RVN-4X needs it, thank you. Buff flamers while your at it too please.

Agreed. MGs need a buff, Flamers should just increase the heat of your target more.

[Bors Mistral]

Machine guns could stand to have an efficiency close to 2/3 of a small laser, no problem. Yes, what's needed could be a roughly 80% buff to their damage.

On flamers, pretty much what Road said, but buffing those needs to be handled with great care.

[FrupertApricot]

In terms of DPS, machineguns should better reflect tabletop.

IE there should be parity between an SRM2 and two machineguns in all matters except range.

[Hidirian]

In TT MGs do 0.20 damage per bullet(2 Dps) in MWO they do 0.04 damage per bullet(0.40 Dps). If they simply did TT damage they would be perfect and not the complete joke they are now.

Edited by Hidirian, 15 November 2012 - 08:27 AM.

[x Marder x]

Dmg is ok with MG its a very usfull weapon. But in my opinion it needs double range 180 meter. 90 meter like small laser but needs ammo that’s not good and the weight is there too.

[wanderer]

x Marder x, on 15 November 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

Dmg is ok with MG its a very usfull weapon. But in my opinion it needs double range 180 meter. 90 meter like small laser but needs ammo that’s not good and the weight is there too.

*snerk*

OK? Erm, no. You can sit there with an entire ton of MG ammo hitting a target and fail to kill it- or indeed, deal any significant damage.

As noted, it's incredibly low on damage levels vs. the "real" ones in TT.

And flamers need a look as well. Make them heat guns or damage guns, just allow people to swap back and forth as they like- just like in TT.

[Hidirian]

x Marder x, on 15 November 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

Dmg is ok with MG its a very usfull weapon. But in my opinion it needs double range 180 meter. 90 meter like small laser but needs ammo that’s not good and the weight is there too.

Just so you know mgs currently have a range of 90-200m and small lasers have 90-180m. Their range is fine its their damage that is totally off.

[x Marder x]

wanderer, on 15 November 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

*snerk*

OK? Erm, no. You can sit there with an entire ton of MG ammo hitting a target and fail to kill it- or indeed, deal any significant damage.

As noted, it's incredibly low on damage levels vs. the "real" ones in TT.

And flamers need a look as well. Make them heat guns or damage guns, just allow people to swap back and forth as they like- just like in TT.

You know that you have get rid of enemy armor so MG gets useful? MG is a support weapon not your main weapon.
In Dog Fights with 2 or 4 tons of ammo its quite good, Low heat lots of rounds and if you aim at parts with no armor and ammo/weapon you destroy it faster than with laser.
Killing a target with MG? LOL wutt?! Its a support weapon not you main weapon maybe cooking off ammo that you hit with MG kills the enemy.

Rate of fier of MG + more DMG would be to to deadly.

[PHAROSMJD]

Hidirian, on 15 November 2012 - 08:26 AM, said:

In TT MGs do 0.20 damage per bullet(2 Dps) in MWO they do 0.04 damage per bullet(0.40 Dps). If they simply did TT damage they would be perfect and not the complete joke they are now.

In TT a MG does 2 damage in a 10 second round, that means 0.2dps. Hence, the MWO MG has double the TT DPS.
Also, since it generates no heat, the MG is more efficient per ton than any energy weapon (DPS / [weight of weapon + 2t ammo + needed heat sinks]).

The problem with the MG is that the hardpoint system prevents mounting enough of them to take advantage of its efficiency.
One solution would be to allow mounting multiple machineguns per ballistic hardpoint.

Edited by Matiasdu, 15 November 2012 - 09:59 AM.

[Hidirian]

Matiasdu, on 15 November 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

In TT a MG does 2 damage in a 10 second round, that means 0.2dps. Hence, the MWO MG has double the TT DPS.
Also, since it generates no heat, the MG is more efficient per ton than any energy weapon (DPS / [weight of weapon + 2t ammo + needed heat sinks]).

The problem with the MG is that the hardpoint system prevents mounting enough of them to take advantage of its efficiency.
One solution would be to allow mounting multiple machineguns per ballistic hardpoint.

You do know that in TT 1 ton of ammunition holds 4,000 rounds, broken down in 200 "shots" for gaming purposes and each "shot" is a 10 rounds burst don't you? That's 0.20 damage per "round" and since they 10x'd the ammo in MWO and firerate it should be 2 Dps or 2 damage a round just like in TT. And as for mounting more MGs per hardpoint that's what MG arrays are for but they don't come out till later in the timeline. Btw the MG is not more efficient than a SL, a mg takes 2 tons and 3 crit slots(gun+ammo+case)and is not hitscan meaning you have to lead your target where as a SL takes 1 crit slot half a ton and its heat is negated by the engine heatsinks by itself.

Edited by Hidirian, 15 November 2012 - 10:49 AM.

[Skyfaller]

x Marder x, on 15 November 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

Dmg is ok with MG its a very usfull weapon. But in my opinion it needs double range 180 meter. 90 meter like small laser but needs ammo that’s not good and the weight is there too.

MG's can hit out to ~270m. All ballistic weapon ranges are maxed out at x3 of their standard max range.

I do agree however that this range is absolutely silly. If anything the MG should hit out to 600m ...its a pepper gun anyway.

MG's should simply have a faster rate of fire imo. That increases the bullets they fire @ 0.04 dmg per bullet and at the same time consumes more ammo. A balanced thing in my opinion.

Edited by Skyfaller, 15 November 2012 - 10:44 AM.

[Geadron Kane]

Machine guns and pulse lasers are designed for when the outer armor is stripped and the internal structure is exposed. Once the damage goes inside each round of the mg or pulse of the beam is a crit roll. The other weapons, with the exception of missiles give you one possible crit each while mgs and pulse give multiple. It is the crits that blow up ammo. An ammo crit on a mech with an xl engine is many times a straight out kill. Sometimes you can get uber lucky and cause a gauss to blow, dumping damage from the arm into the torso where some ammo is stored causing it too to blow and taking out the center. That half blown leg might have ammo in it that will blow and transfer damage to the center.....

[Deathlike]

I know this necro thread was reborn.

Just a thought, but you can certainly do better with a UAC5 on a Raven 4X or a Cicada 3C than the MG. The MG still is not that useful.

[SubRyan]

I don't understand why MG effective range isn't out to 800m +. Certain real world machine guns have an effective range of over 1200m, but ones that are fitted to mechs in 3050 have an effective range of 90m

[Xandralkus]

I'd like to see a perfectly competent SRM, machinegun, and flamer build. 90% of the DPS should not come from the SRM's.

Machineguns should generate heat at least on par with a small laser. The small laser would do higher alpha damage than the MG. The MG would do higher sustained DPS than the small laser. These values should probably be constrained to ~10% of one another.

Flamers should be balanced against Medium Lasers. They should produce higher DPS, lower alpha (since it's a continuous-fire weapon, duh), and secondarily, some heat to the target. The trade-off is that if you're not close enough to pop open the canopy and spit at your enemy, it's a useless weapon.

There is no critical damage buff that will ever make flamers or machineguns powerful enough to be useful. That would turn them into niche-guns that are useless in everything except a very narrow number of circumstances. Even if a Flamer or machinegun instantly destroyed all components on a body part when damaging internal structure, would we really notice in the normal flow of day-to-day combat?

Change. The. Values.

[Eternal Hunter]

*Raises post from the dead*

Agreed - just tested a triple machinegun on my hunchback in the testing grounds and..yeah.. not pretty. Damage should be doubled. Not leaning toward tripled tough - that would put it along small laser damage, and machinegun has no heat...but as you say, it DOES use ammo, and you need to be on target all the time...

Edited by Eternal Hunter, 06 March 2013 - 02:17 AM.

[Phoenix Gray]

Anybody who's ever shot a .50 Ma Deuce IRL knows the IS has apparently lost more tech than was ever let on. MG's could stand a bit of a boost in DMG.

[buttmonkey]

machine gun dps .4 at 1.5 tons
small laser dps 1 at .5 tons
so 1.5 tons of small laser is 3 dps

i would say the machine gun should be buffed to match the dps of the small laser at least. even then it will still be only 1/3 of the power of a the same tonnage of small lasers