90 replies to this topic

[Al Mack]

Just basing off other games; I think people in trial mechs should be against all others in trial mechs and none against custom. Irreguardless of skill level. I believe this makes it easier on newbies to get a feel for the game and drives them to want to purchase and work towards getting a custom mech to fight versus higher skilled pilots inherently.

This (in my opinion) creates desire and competetiveness to "move up" the social rankings and incrementally increases skill piloting along with game knowledge.

Additionally there should be something of this nature for those who truly want to be the "king of the hill" to go back to trial mechs which would be a huge handicap over their normal fully customized load-outs and create two seperate competitive groups. Ones that excel in standard configuration mechs and different pilots that excel at specially set-up mechs; and can duke it out on each others "style" or "turf" for which pilots truly do posess the most battlemech prowess.

While they can implement most of the other suggestions on matchmaking for premade versus premades.

Anyhow; just a few random thoughts and I don't feel there is too much problem currently more or less as there is always room to improve...games should be challenging or they aren't nearly as fun in my point of view.

[Sevaradan]

Al Mack, on 15 November 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:

Just basing off other games; I think people in trial mechs should be against all others in trial mechs and none against custom. Irreguardless of skill level.

Then you'll have experienced players jumping in trials just to troll the noobs We used to do it in WOT while waiting for clanwars matches to be announced.

[Sandpit]

I like running trial mechs sometimes depending on the rotation. It also lets you try out a mech before buying it.

[RAM]

Agreed, I really like the trial mechs to trial them – I still think everyone should get their one free mech choice to start…


RAM
ELH

[Al Mack]

I totally understand your point and it is valid.

Whereas I strictly mean for generating new users into the database and making them fans of the game. Since not everyone played TT and read the novels as many here have including myself.

I like the challenge but I speculate a new player not understanding fully what weapons do which things and what they are capable of...would join a game and see 6 lasers raining in on them or 60 missiles; then look through the trial mechs and see none of them are options and simply not want to "purchase" to make it level in their mind fair or not.

I'm a believer that generating new players and revenue will make it overall a better game for all facet of player. Even if you get rolled in many games as long as its viewied as "fair" and being "outclassed" they will work to get better and when it becomes less frustraiting...more likely than not want to invest in the game to verse higher skilled pilots they know are in another catagory and will pay to prove their mettle against them.

I just always remember playing doom and running around with a pistol versus a BFG as a brand new player and you never knew who was truly better untill you mastered the fundamentals and had real in-game knowledge of what things were capable of. Also once you dd reach that skill level plateau you would purposely go back to what used to frustrait you and try to prove immense skill by being the best with the pistol versus any weapon.

Which is a direction I think we want this game to be headed. efficeincy and adaptability is key. Not just maximum effectiveness with unlimited resources.

[Kunae]

RAM, on 15 November 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:

Agreed, I really like the trial mechs to trial them – I still think everyone should get their one free mech choice to start…


RAM
ELH

I agree.

Trying to squeeze pear-juice from a pit isn't a good way to start folks off in a game, of any flavor.

[Ghogiel]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 November 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

first you complain until people who actually want to run a team game as....you know.. a TEAM, get screwed (short term) and now you want to complain Some more?

Seriously?

I swear you and Vassago won't be content til it's 1v1 only Solaris 7 matches.

And then you will STILL complain. Maybe the problem is that you just aren't very good?


and "skill based" matching is a myth, since there is no way to truly measure skill (Damage/KDr don't begin to tell the half of it). And only by playing superior competition does one have a chance to become better.

Currently there is a sync dropping exploit some teams are using to force 8man team matches vs pugs, all that is being suggested is to implement a way to fix the exploit and make tis phase of MM work as intended.

[Sandpit]

Ghogiel, on 15 November 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

Currently there is a sync dropping exploit some teams are using to force 8man team matches vs pugs, all that is being suggested is to implement a way to fix the exploit and make tis phase of MM work as intended.

It's not an exploit. The devs have specifically stated this isn't an exploit. It's called dropping with friends.
As far as "fixing" it phase 2 gets implemented on Tuesday.

[Greyfyl]

Kunae, on 15 November 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

Actually, it's going to be more to punish people who whined about MM in the first place, and got the drop-groups restricted to 4-mans.

So they are asshats is what you are saying.

[Greyfyl]

Sandpit, on 15 November 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

It's not an exploit. The devs have specifically stated this isn't an exploit. It's called dropping with friends.
As far as "fixing" it phase 2 gets implemented on Tuesday.

Phase 2 doesn't fix anything at all. Groups of 4 will still be able to try to drop together vs pugs. Like someone posted earlier, alot of the people on here doing premades vs pugs will continue to do so becuase quite frankly most of them aren't half as good as they think they are, and when they get their butts handed to them consistently in 8v8 vs good teams they will go back to doing 4mans vs pugs.

Oh and I also predict alot of them crying the first week after phase 2 is dropped because they will be getting stomped by good players.

[Ghogiel]

Sandpit, on 15 November 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

It's not an exploit. The devs have specifically stated this isn't an exploit. It's called dropping with friends.
As far as "fixing" it phase 2 gets implemented on Tuesday.

Dev quote please?

[Bogus]

The current system isn't great, and I've seen some obvious doubled up premades too, but it's a reasonable emergency stopgap until we get a functional matchmaker. Dev time in the MM area needs to be spent on getting said new and improved MM out the door asap, not "fixing the fix" as it were.

[Greyfyl]

Bogus, on 15 November 2012 - 04:56 PM, said:

The current system isn't great, and I've seen some obvious doubled up premades too, but it's a reasonable emergency stopgap until we get a functional matchmaker. Dev time in the MM area needs to be spent on getting said new and improved MM out the door asap, not "fixing the fix" as it were.

But it's really doubtful that the Phase 2 matchmaking will make the game much better, Some of the hardcore players will finally get 8v8. But alot of the people doing premades now are not going to stay in the 8v8 group, I would bet a paycheck on that.

So they will go back to doing 4man premades vs pugs, which is exactly where we are now. With no weight or class limitations, I can't see 8v8 being all that fun, within a few weeks the hardcore teams will have standard team setups they run, they will min/max the whole 8v8 setup to death and only the hardcore will stay.

[Sandpit]

Greyfyl, on 15 November 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

Phase 2 doesn't fix anything at all. Groups of 4 will still be able to try to drop together vs pugs. Like someone posted earlier, alot of the people on here doing premades vs pugs will continue to do so becuase quite frankly most of them aren't half as good as they think they are, and when they get their butts handed to them consistently in 8v8 vs good teams they will go back to doing 4mans vs pugs.

Oh and I also predict alot of them crying the first week after phase 2 is dropped because they will be getting stomped by good players.

I find it amusing that every time someone cries out against the injustice that is a premie using voip to drop it's a blanket statement of how they just loooooooooooooove to drop against pugs.
This is exactly how it works right?
I join a group on TS with friends and people I like to play with and we diabolically scheme to drop against a pug because we have some secret super duper power that allows us to pick who we drop against.........

No, here's the truth. MM has been implemented gimping the size of a group you can drop with, not because it adds balance. Not because it adds anything to game play value. It was gimped because every time someone gets stomped they ASSUME it's a premie. The MM phases that are being implemented have taken that argument away and dispelled the premie boogeyman myth yet people STILL persist in blaming that on the reason they lost badly.
Stop making me out to be a bad guy because I like to drop with my unit and friends sometimes.
Stop making blanket statements that make it seem like every person who drops in a premie is out to get pugs
Stop assuming every time you lose it's because they were big bad premies stomping us

Start playing with teamwork
Start taking responsibility for what actually causes most of the losses (poor teamwork and less experienced players)
Start using a little teamwork

I'm sick and tired of being ostracized because I want to play with people I enjoy talking with and dropping with. If you don't want to join a group so be it. Great. Have fun. That's YOUR right. Don't, however, tell me I'm doing it wrong because I DO want to join a group or call me names or make derogatory statements about people who do enjoy socializing while they play.

Bottom line is premies enjoy playing hard fought battles MUCH more than stomping through 20 wins in 5 minutes. It's boring. If you can't understand that then I don't know what else to tell you.

I predict no matter how MM is implemented a good majority of players blaming premies for their losses now will jsut find some new boogeyman to blame or just keep insisting that somehow someway the big ole meanie head premies are conspiring to beat them and wreck their enjoyment of the game.

Ghogiel, on 15 November 2012 - 04:52 PM, said:

Dev quote please?

and no I don't have the link handy, nor do I have the time to look it up at the moment. I don't feel the need to justify it anymore than having read it myself so I know it's not an exploit. If you feel it's an exploit and think people are doing it feel free to submit a ticket on it when you encounter it and then you'll have a first-hand written response that tells you it's not an exploit

[Ghogiel]

Sandpit, on 15 November 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

and no I don't have the link handy, nor do I have the time to look it up at the moment. I don't feel the need to justify it anymore than having read it myself so I know it's not an exploit. If you feel it's an exploit and think people are doing it feel free to submit a ticket on it when you encounter it and then you'll have a first-hand written response that tells you it's not an exploit

lol

[Greyfyl]

Here is part of what I posted in another thread..

"The secondary problem is that the matching system as it stands seems like it goes out of it's way to put as many players in trial mechs up against a team of founders in full custom mechs. Many of us that are adamantly against premades vs pugs admitted that the pug vs premade issue is simply a part of the bigger issue of just bad (no) matchmaking. We emplored the community to use restraint in order to not drive off new players and you all basically said 'screw the newbies, I can't play if I'm not in a group'."

I would counter your statment by saying - if you don't think there are people doing TS simply becuase it's easy to roll pugs then you are delusional. I have no doubt that there are hardcore pilots out there that can't wait to get away from pugs and face other good teams. What percentage of the premade community is that? I don't think any of us will know one way or the other.

This is your statement that really amuses me though:

"Don't, however, tell me I'm doing it wrong because I DO want to join a group or call me names or make derogatory statements about people who do enjoy socializing while they play"

The problem is that those of you that couldn't show any self control and play for a little while without friends went on a newbstomping tear as OB started. You HELPED make a bad situation worse with your pugstomping. Look at what I said again - I did not say you were THE PROBLEM, but you most certainly contributed to the problem created by PGI.

Like many others, I've waited many years for this game to come out (more than likely you have as well), I'm not seeing a long term future for this game as it stands. I hope I am wrong, but stomping the living crap out of the new potential playerbase isn't helping anything now is it? The number of hardcore MW players alone will not be enough to keep this game going, we need all the new players we can get.

I now return you to your ragefest.

[RAM]

Ghogiel, on 15 November 2012 - 04:52 PM, said:

Dev quote please?

Chris K, on 09 November 2012 - 01:32 PM, said:

All good, we talked about it internally and have no problem with players trying to sync their drops

RAM
ELH

[Taryys]

I honestly did not expect that.

RAM, on 15 November 2012 - 05:24 PM, said:

RAM
ELH

[Sandpit]

Greyfyl, on 15 November 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

The problem is that those of you that couldn't show any self control and play for a little while without friends went on a newbstomping tear as OB started. You HELPED make a bad situation worse with your pugstomping. Look at what I said again - I did not say you were THE PROBLEM, but you most certainly contributed to the problem created by PGI.


I now return you to your ragefest.

And now I return you to your fallacy.
You have NOOOOOOOOOOOO idea how often I pug and how often I premie. Once again you assume. I MUST be one of the pugstompers because I like to drop with a team sometimes. There is exactly where your blanket statements and false accusations come in. I must be someone who enjoys stomping pugs because I speak up for those that like to drop in teams.
You have no idea how I play how poor my stats may or may not be you just do what you've been doing and assume it's a premie causing you to lose.....

I can' wait for the MM to be implemented fully so those that think like this can no longer blame the premie boogeyman.

If you can't see anythign wrong with the statement you just made that I quoted then I don't know what to tell you. You just accused me of running around ruining the game, pug stomping, etc. and know absolutely NOTHING about how I play the game or what my win/loss ratio is.
It never ceases to amaze me and yet you wonder why those of us on the premie side of things are so sick and tired and frustrated. You essentially just told me I'm the reason the game won't succeed because of how I play the game knowing absolutely nothing about me lol

[Ghogiel]

RAM, on 15 November 2012 - 05:24 PM, said:

RAM
ELH

They limit 4 man groups in matchmaker and yet they support people getting around the limit. All admist a **** storm about the implementation of the limitation. That **** is hilarious.