31 replies to this topic

[Hidden Sniper]

Haven't played alot, being as I joined last night and played for four hours. But everytime I play catapult I empty out my missles (via target lock and launch them so they don't run into hills and whatnot) and at the end of the round I have like 1XX damage or somewhere around there. And, whenever I try to get close enough to use my 4X lasers I pretty much get blown up really fast. So, I ask, what is the point in this mech?

Edited by Hidden Sniper, 15 November 2012 - 07:24 PM.

[jbhewitt]

I'm not a fan of the Catapult - that said I'd call it far from useless.

I think it's proven to be quite a deadly mech with different variants such as Streakpults, Gausspaults, Dual AC/20's etc.

If you're talking about the stock trial variant the CPLT-C1 then yes I'd agree it's probably not the easiest mech to use. You've got LRM's that have been nerfed recently, but not a devastating amount. You've got 4xmedium lasers which used correctly are a considerable amount of fire.

You're not a brawler though, and you do have JumpJets to get out of sticky situations.

I'd play it more like a brawler assist mech where you pair up with say a hunchback/atlas and let them take the punishment whilst you do the damage. When the enemy starts fleeing, then use your LRM's.

I wouldn't call it the easiest mech to learn in however.

[Hidden Sniper]

It is the stock version. Last game I did a whopping 97 damage. Unoaded it all on enemies without anti-missle systems. I actually was hitting the enemy catapult with 4X lasers in fights too (he ran into us), so most of the damage probably wasn't even from missles. Fml...

Edited by Hidden Sniper, 15 November 2012 - 07:49 PM.

[Alex Wolfe]

It's "only" one of the three best mechs in the game (Jenner, Catapult, Hunchback SP a.k.a. "camel"). Utterly broken hitboxes enabling tons of cheese (nigh-unhittable weapons and XL engines), ridiculous torso twist (140 degrees to each side, all other stiff-armed mechs only go 120, some only twist 90), excellent, symmetrical hardpoints, decent speed, jump jets for most variants.

Whenever a cheese build appeared, Catapults were there to exploit it to the fullest. Ubiquitous and nearly universally hated twingauss K2, LRM boats, streak boats, SRM jumping shotguns, you name it.

Give it some time and some patience. The mech is stupid in its current form. You'll learn.

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 15 November 2012 - 08:06 PM.

[Teiwaz83]

It sounds like you probably weren't actually hitting, at least not with a lot of your shots. Were you firing into dense terrain (cities) or at light mechs?

I would agree that LRMs are a bit underwhelming right now. A full load of them from a Catapult will often not be enough to destroy an equal-tonnage mech. Part of this is because you can't concentrate damage - the missile impacts will be spread over the entire target. I haven't run a Catapult very often (because yes, LRMs stink right now) but I found the best use of them was to fire in support of the brawlers, especially at melees in the water. (Against mediums or larger) Don't bother taking potshots at targets your allies have spotted unless they're actively engaging them, I found it to be a waste of ammo due to how often you just end up losing target lock. (Exception being, of course, if they're deliberately painting targets for you with TAG or something. You can tell because there will be a little crosshairs next to the enemy indicator triangle - if you see one of these, someone's probably making the effort to maintain contact with the enemy to let you shoot them rather than just glancing at targets to evaluate class and damage.)

IMO, LRMs could use a bit of a damage buff, and also give more ammo per ton. While I'm glad the days of the super-deadly LRM are gone, exhausting the entire ammo supply of your primary weapon and failing to kill an equal-tonnage mech seems silly. If you're running trial mechs this week, do yourself and your team a favor and hop in an Atlas instead.

[Adeptus Odren]

Hidden Sniper, on 15 November 2012 - 07:48 PM, said:

It is the stock version. Last game I did a whopping 97 damage. Unoaded it all on enemies without anti-missle systems. I actually was hitting the enemy catapult with 4X lasers in fights too (he ran into us), so most of the damage probably wasn't even from missles. Fml...

Once you have the c-bills, equip your catapult with Artemis. You should see a boost to your damage. And try to avoid indirect fire - best if you have line of sight.

I agree with Wolfe. You can cheese out a catapult once you have the c-bills to spend on it. Stock version, like all other stock versions, just won't cut it.

[Alex Wolfe]

Teiwaz83, on 15 November 2012 - 08:04 PM, said:

do yourself and your team a favor and hop in an Atlas instead.

Between the gauss and lasers it has good firepower if left undisturbed, a word of warning though: Stock Atlas K are death traps if actually engaged.

I can usually juke them on my Cent long enough that they overheat (or get close to it and afraid to shoot if they know what they're doing), all the time hammering a side torso. Easy pickings.

I... I have no advice to offer there, really, besides "if you pick it, keep at range". Trials are really, really poor this week (and I maintain they're a horrible idea in general).

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 15 November 2012 - 08:17 PM.

[Ashnod]

been going 5-0 6-0 on my large laser cat, went 8-0 earlier today as well

[White Bear 84]

A good pilot in a Catapult can easily take down an atlas, definately far from useless!

[Zerbob]

The Catapult is far from useless, and if I were to develop a "dream team" I'd definitely bring one or two along. That being said, I tend to prefer the C4 over the C1. Dropping energy points for more missiles, allows for a good fit of 4x LRM10s (or I often went 2x 15, 2x 5) with plenty of missiles and a good consistent fire rate.

Right now LRMs do have indirect fire, but are much better with clear line of site. Stay in the back, and off to the side so you don't hit your team mates in the back. Usually best to target the big stuff, not the little stuff (Jenners, Commandos, Cicadas and even some Ravens can run fast enough to dodge many of the missiles). Your job is not to get kills, but to give your brawlers a better chance by softening up targets before the big fight begins.

Once the fight starts, you should be keeping an eye on who is giving your team trouble, and fire at that guy. This is where lots of smaller LRMs vs bigger ones comes in handy (i.e. 4x 10 instead of 2x 20). LRMs have great impulse, that is they rock the targets cockpit around like they're in a bouncy castle. This makes it very difficult for them to aim with precision, often causing their shots to go wide. This is an incredible bonus to your buddies, as not only are you dealing damage to the opponent, but you are decreasing the amount of damage being thrown back at your team.

Do keep jump jets on your Catapult if you are going for the long range support role. While they may not play much of an effect in say Caustic Valley, they are invaluable in River City.

Remember the key point here is that you are the support. Your job isn't to get kills, but just dish out damage and help your brawlers get kills. It's not a glorious role, but you are one of the most important members of the Lance and good supports will win games.

[Freeride Forever]

Alex Wolfe summed it up pretty good. The Cat is just about the most formidable mech in the game. It is the best for nailing lights (maybe even better than another light) & it can stand face to face with a Fatlas & kill it. If you're finding it useless, then you're doing it wrong. You look & sound like you're new (to the game, not just the forums). So my guess is that you don't know what you're doing yet. The trial Cat is no doubt a loaf of kife compared to a custom build, but show me a trial anything that isn't.

[NyxOOX]

If you think that the C1 is useless, you obviously have no clue how to use it. It's not a primary damage dealer, or a brawler. The C1 is a support mech. It's job isn't to get kills, but to weaken up heavier mechs so your teammates will have an easier time taking them out. As a bonus, the 4 medium lasers provide respectable firepower by themselves, so you can still be an effective combatant after you've run out of missiles.

[Shiney]

You're kidding me. The Catapult is probably the best mech, for it's variety. K2- Gauss cat, probably the most OP mech currently, Streak-Cat, still viable, even a founders 3-4 LL Cat. There's so many good builds, the only reason I play other mechs is for the challenge. The only they they're not great at is brawling close against good players due to the large head hit box

[Kurayami]

wouldn't go as far as saying "useless", but yes, battle value of some cats variants seriously dropped.

particularly mainstream "full lrm" boats (those are stupid seriously people). A1 6xlrm5 now is obsolete, streak took some nerf and currently on par with SRM build. mixed pointless since both lrm and ssrm are not powerful enough. c4 hurt plenty since both laser ports in center torso and it is more or less pure lrm chassis (not enough missile slots for srm\streak and both laser ports in center torso) c1 is practically unaffected with variety of builds and combat flexibility of normal ones (hell just drop xl+endo in stock design and boost armor\hs\ammo and it will shine) k2 is unaffected at all.

nyx00x c1 stock have zero chance of using said lasers - too slow, too fragile and needs way more heatsinks. now customized one is another deal entirely - half of my kills comes from lasers array. as for "soften" - current implementation of LRM is not economically effective in performing said task.

Edited by Kurayami, 15 November 2012 - 09:50 PM.

[Teiwaz83]

Guys, he's talking about the stock C-1 which is currently the Catapult available for trial selection.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

[Minos Murdoc]

Since the LRM nerf/fix (depending what side of fence your on) its not as good as it was. Personally think they have struck a good balance, apart from undoing artemis grouping - that now sucks B@lls. I've personally got bored of my founders C1 being a LRM boat and have stuck lasers in it. Betting quite bored of all the A1 streakcats, K2 Gauss/AC20 variants out there, i mean come on people use some imagination. But going of topic there.

The Cat isn't useless, but is meant to be a firesupport mech so your job is the soften up the enemy for the kill. Or lay suppression fire down so they hide. The Trail variant is prone to overheating if you don't manage it correctly, first thing i did was remove 2 of the lasers and swapped remaining two to small pulses, to fight back when those annoying jenners come in.

[AlphaPiAlpha]

I love my "STOCK" founders cat with 2x 15LRMs and 4 M Lasers. I unload the missilies, the go into close range combat. 4 M Lasers well used can do quite some damage.

[Greers]

My tactic in the Trial-Cat would be:

follow an Assault from about 200m behind. Lob your Missiles at targets that close to that Assault. Protect the Assault against circling Scouts using Lasers (LRM won't do much damage against them because souped up Scouts can outrun them)

If you are near the Frontline most of your LRM will hit and you'll score more damage. It's a good Variant and not as vulnerable as the K2 Atlas. I like to blow of shoulders and watch them blow up from their XL engine

[Vincent Lynch]

The stock C1's problem is mostly the lack of ammo, and then the lack of heat sinks for 4 ML.

I bought a C1 and let the armament stay exactly the same, just with more armor, more ammo, an AMS and lots of DHS. now if I run out of ammo, this means we're probably winning; also, except in caustic valley, i have overheat problems very rarely even if constantly using full laser salvos. Still, it's a support role, so my K/D rate sucks because I rarely deliver the final blow (never had more than 2 kills a match yet), but it makes me decent money even on auto-repair and auto-rearm, because 1) if we win I oven have 5 or 6 or even 7 assists, 2) since I don't have an XL, a few bucks are always left even if I get cored in a defeat without kills/assists.
The weapon placement also means, if someone shoots off an LRM rack I have usually already used up most of my ammo anyway, and the fact that 2 energy hardpoints are in the center torso means, if necessary I can zombie around and still annoy enemies if both side torsos are blown off, which several times meant all the difference for binding enemies just long enough to let my teammates capture their base.

TL;DR: as soon you have DHS, and endosteel for more ammo, the C1 kicks butt seriously.

Edited by Vincent Lynch, 16 November 2012 - 02:18 AM.