88 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Hansh0tfirst, on 16 November 2012 - 02:01 AM, said:

By those standards, why limit mechs at all?

Consider this my official request for a FLEA with four LRM launchers, 2 Gauss Rifles, a couple SSRM-6s for good measure... oh and 20 tons of armor plz.

Sure just upgrade to an assault Chassis and you can call your rent-a-wreck whatever you want!

[Diomedies]

Youngbull1980, on 16 November 2012 - 01:32 AM, said:

My memory is a bit rusty but i seem to remember that ECM could not be used on all mechs in TT, if thats the case they should keep it that way.

The rust has gone deep I'm afraid. There has never been a limitation on what equipment mechs can carry in TT, it's one of the few reasons why mechs are still the king of the battlefield.

Every mech can fit any equipment it has space and weight for, even faction specific equipment, which has all been made universally available in universe, can be fitted to any mech.

[Voidsinger]

I voted yes. Why?

BAP and Guardian are both 'generic' EW warfare systems, and their usage is widespread, and increasing in later technical readouts in Battletech, Guardian essentially completely replacing AMS by 3085. Limiting EW to certain chassis means PGI has to make a number of chassis available, otherwise, only the Raven gets it.

The Raven was special, not because of Beagle, or Guardian, but rather because it used EW gear developed by the Confederation, before the Helm memory core was unlocked, and Star League Technology became commonplace again.

Indeed, the base fitout for the Raven is built around detection and targetting supplements.

However, you'll find the Ravens EW warfare speciality lies in modules, and we've only seen the first few. Later modules will allow the Raven to become much more a "Wild Vulture".

The Raven 3L has more module slots than any other mech in the game. When the modules become more filled out, then we'll start seeing the rise of the true EW mech, not with BAP or Guardian, which can and should be able to be mounted on any mech.

[Uruz]

Considering that we have no ******* clue how ECM or BAP are going to be implemented at this point in time, this poll is worthless. Quit agitating the crowd.

[Sevaradan]

Belongs only on specific chassis.

[RG Notch]

Same nonsense was around before ES and FF and it's available everywhere. PGI isn't wasting time on ECM so it can only go in the raven, get over it now so you won't be so disappointed.

[Raalic]

I'd really like to see it limited to Raven variants. Seriously, just Ravens. Eventually Clan scouts.

[VXJaeger]

IMHO ECM should be available only for heavy+assault mechs, 'cause they are the most valuable targets. This would mean that scouts need to maintain LOS when pointing targets for MSLboats, or use NARC (fix it goddamit).

[Agent of Change]

Hansh0tfirst, on 15 November 2012 - 10:21 PM, said:

I'm not necessarily trying to change your opinion, but since you seem in favor of variety, I'm curious...

Why would you pilot a Raven if a Jenner could field ECM and be just as effective?

Because ravens are awesome... Chicken legs forever down with the fore kneed hegemony!!!!!

But seriously, 'Teh Maximum Optimal Build!1!' is not (and should not) be the reason people select their mechs. Some have a certain preference to certain elements (I might but I'll never tell) and chassis doesn't mean better or worse neccessarily it's al in how effective you are with that chassis.

That said it would be really depressing if something that was traditionally limited to scouts and was kinda 'role defining' and not even all scouts at that was made a universal option in a game that is supposed to be encouraging variety and 'role warfare'.

[Chiron]

Tragaperras, on 15 November 2012 - 11:29 PM, said:

allowing to mount ECM on any chassis is the same as allowing any mech to use jumpjets.

[deputydog]

The way ecm is supposed to work, is the pilot that has it has to sneak up on the enemy and jam them while not dying or being seen. THe BAP ECM combo, allows the raven to see thru a hill while remaining hidden,, AND jamming what they see if tey are close enough. ECM on a mech at range 1000 shouldnt do anything to the the lrm mech being able to see it.
It would however negate the artemis bonus to hit anything within the ECM bubble.

[Vermaxx]

ECM was a piece of equipment in tabletop, just like a large laser. The raven was designed in a time period where no one else HAD this tech. By 3049, the item had been redesigned into a standalone system that could be installed in any mech. Ergo, it WAS installed in any mech as the pilot saw fit.

This thread is about as relevant as the 3rd person rant. They're still going to do that if they think it sells better. ECM is probably just going to be an upgrade on the Upgrades tab, and for every mech. They talked about how dangerous it was on a gausscat after all.

[Joker Two]

What they could do is have an "Electronics Hardpoint" in the same way as AMS. Active Probes, Electronic Countermeasures, and later C3 Masters and Targeting computers (and maybe the TAG too) could all require this hardpoint. Most 'Mechs would have at least one, but only designs that are EW platforms would have several hardpoints. This gives designs like the Raven a purpose, and can also be used to differentiate more between chassis (JR7-K, I'm looking at you).

[Imagine Dragons]

Tragaperras, on 16 November 2012 - 01:45 AM, said:

3L can mount 295XL. The problem with 3L is its missile pods, they shoot only 1 missile per volley.

Thats only for the hardpoint that contained the NARC launcher.... left arm IIRC...

As for EWAR equipment...

Personally I was all for the the "varying number of EWAR hardpoints per chasis/variant"

However, I think it would be more interesting to scrap that, and have pilot modules that boost the effectiveness of various EWAR equipment significantly and that are not so easy to obtain, or just limited to certain chasis/variants...

Edited by XenomorphZZ, 16 November 2012 - 08:39 AM.

[buckX]

That Guy, on 15 November 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

i hope that at a minimum the electronic gear takes up the AMS hard-point (which should be renamed).

but other than that i was really hoping that electronic gear would be limited. why take a raven when you can do the same to a jenner?

I think you're on to something there. Not sure what the exact right implementation would be, but you've got AMS, ECM, BAP, and MASC as utility items. You could put a cap on how many each mech can take (like modules), and vary it by chassis and variant. Ravens would get a lot of them. Atlas D-DCs and Ks would get more than others. The Jenner K might get an extra one. Given that there are 4 such items, I think 2 would be a good baseline number that a mech can take. Make the aforementioned ones get 3.

[rolly]

Considering the Raven was specifically built to house the ECM, AND PGI wants to focus on Role Warfare. The ECM should stay a part of Raven. Otherwise its not a specialist and there is no point in having a Raven when it could have been substituted for any another other light mech that has medium lasers, SRM's and goes 5/8.

I don't mind if the min-maxers will be upset if their Gausscat or Slunchback won't be able to run their ultimate mech with ECM. If PGI really wants to focus on teamwork, this is a good way to show it. Ravens have a specialized place on the battlefield that compliments LRM boats who support brawlers. It also replaces the complaints about LRM's being nerfed when complimented with a Raven's TAG, and NARC.

If they really want to make ECM available to everyone. Price it as a reduced cost (since its built FOR the Raven) for Raven pilots running non ECM variants. For those who want it for their own mechs, it should come at a cost. Ie. double the crits, uses up more than 1 hardpoint, etc.

There has to be limits on this if you want Role Warfare and Teamwork to be a dominant theme here.

Edited by rolly, 16 November 2012 - 08:21 AM.

[Devaine]

What about applying a sliding scale of effectiveness depending on the mech size. The Small scout mechs can cover other mechs as well as themselves, however the larger the mech size the less effective it becomes. Alternatively they could link the weight and crits to the a calculation that includes the mech weight or engine size.The mechs are are designed to have it getting it cheaper in some way.

[LagomorphPrime]

I think to maintain the idea of Role Warfare and to encourage diversity on the battlefield ECM and BAP should be limited to select chassis or variants. I'd say all Ravens and maybe one variant for each other weight class at the most. Or just all Ravens and leave it at that.

WRT modules, have any modules been announced or described beyond the 3 currently implemented? I could live with ECM and BAP for all if Ravens had a sufficient module advantage to maintain their role.

[buckX]

Devaine, on 16 November 2012 - 08:44 AM, said:

What about applying a sliding scale of effectiveness depending on the mech size. The Small scout mechs can cover other mechs as well as themselves, however the larger the mech size the less effective it becomes. Alternatively they could link the weight and crits to the a calculation that includes the mech weight or engine size.The mechs are are designed to have it getting it cheaper in some way.

Different effectiveness seems awkward, and just makes it harder for people to understand. Different weights makes total sense, and is something we already see with JJs. Crits should be the same, because everybody get the same number, but I have no objection to ECM being heavier for a bit mech. It makes sense you'd need more powerful jammers to block targeting on something the size of an Atlas.

[Xorak]

I do want ECM on my Commando. Not sure everyone should have it though. Also don't want to only see it on the Raven for obvious reasons..