152 replies to this topic

[Wun]

Last night I was constantly hit from the rear and there was no red triangle on my minimap. I would torso twist and see a mech there (this includes mechs as large as catapults and dragons) and then the red triangle would show up on my minimap.

Am I crazy or is this new? I dont recall having this issue before this patch. It seems like my sensors now only show what is in the front 180 of myself or a teammate and I am pretty sure it used to show anything within close proximity/LOS even if it was behind. If not then it should; according to lore Mechs have some 360 radar view thing; this lack of sensors behind is both frustrating and lore breaking.

Edited by Niko Snow, 16 April 2013 - 02:06 PM.

[Inochi]

Mechs in MWO have never had rear sensors.

[Nooee]

That is true, but to follow the story line and other MW games that I have played, you would have 360 degrees of coverage. You could also target friendly Mech's to check their BDA.

That being said, you have to adjust your play style to account for the huge blind spot behind you. Once you spot the Mech's they will show on the map. So adjust accordingly.

I for one would like to see this changed to a full 360 degree radar coverage. But there are more important things that need to be done first. For instance, Forrest Colony map needs to get rid of the black out conditions when a weapon is fired. Black screens during game play means you are dead in seconds. Changing to night vision helps but also makes the FPS drop like a rock.

Edited by Nooee, 16 November 2012 - 10:25 AM.

[Mechteric]

Until more electronic warfare type items are introduced its actually really good as it is now to not have 360 radar. The reason why is that it still allows for light mechs to be useful for information gathering, otherwise you run the risk of everyone stomping around in assault mechs like in previous Mechwarrior games.

[Bagheera]

360 radar is a cop-out. The game is more fun without the ability to know where everyone is all the time, and conversly not everyone knows where you are all the time.

More radar/imaging enhancements will come in the form of modules, as will modules and tech to foil them so things like light mechs are still useful.

Edited by Bagheera, 16 November 2012 - 10:54 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

Bagheera, on 16 November 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

360 radar is a cop-out. The game is more fun without the ability to know where everyone is all the time, and conversly not everyone knows where you are all the time.

More radar/imaging enhancements will come in the form of modules, as will modules and tech to foil them so things like light mechs are still useful.

Disagree. Light 'mechs would still have strategic uses even if all 'mechs were equiped with 360 degree radar and viewing. After all, it doesn't matter if an Atlas had 1440 degree viewing, he's still NOT going to be able to out turn and keep targeting track of a fast moving Commando, Raven, Jenner, Cicada, Hunchback, Centurian. All the Atlas would be able to do is start turning, making you little guys work just a little harder at killing them from back shots.

Now, you give us 360 degree viewing AND rear firing weapons, just like the ol' TT BT and now you little twerps have something to worry about.

Until then, at least let us see who the little jerk is that's firing lasers into our *****, please!

[Karyudo ds]

Dimento Graven, on 16 November 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

After all, it doesn't matter if an Atlas had 1440 degree viewing, he's still NOT going to be able to out turn and keep targeting track of a fast moving Commando, Raven, Jenner, Cicada, Hunchback, Centurion.

Out-turn maybe not, but the second that light started gathering info that Atlas could turn and snipe them with their Gauss well before turning became an issue. Unless you came around a corner or something, but either way it's pretty likely you'd show up on a lot of people's radars mitigating pure information gather potential.

[Wun]

Nooee, on 16 November 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

That being said, you have to adjust your play style to account for the huge blind spot behind you. Once you spot the Mech's they will show on the map. So adjust accordingly.

What I was experiencing is that they would blink in and out as I turned and they circled. Its really annoying.

Bagheera, on 16 November 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

360 radar is a cop-out. The game is more fun without the ability to know where everyone is all the time, and conversly not everyone knows where you are all the time.

I just completely disagree. 20th century tanks have rear view thermal imaging, its absolutely ludicrous that 31st century mech (which have 360 viewers according to lore) dont. This should be a strategy game where use of cover, LOS and positioning trump twitchy reactions. Go play hawken if you want just another twitchy FPS robot game..

Edited by Wun, 16 November 2012 - 02:44 PM.

[Elder Thorn]

Wun, on 16 November 2012 - 02:36 PM, said:

Go play hawken if you want just another twitchy FPS robot game..

you just disqualified yourself, as the same argument is brought up by people who do not want a 360° view.

on the topic: well... even if i am usually piloting heavier mechs, not to say assaults, i think it is a good thing, that a light is able to sneak up on me, while i agree, that it somehow does not make sense, that a mech cannot notice a mech within 50 meters right behind it. but well... fun over realism if you ask me, but i guess everyone has a different definiton over this

[Stingz]

Wait for Beagle Active Probe to become an functional item on the Raven, it will probably help with radar.

Edited by Stingz, 16 November 2012 - 06:47 PM.

[Long Draw]

If I can't have rear-facing radar, can I at least get some dang side mirrors please? I mean come on! Somebody has to know how to polish a stupid rock or something. I'm not asking for holographic 3D radar covering all 1440 degrees!

[Scrawny Cowboy]

I don't know about you guys...

But when I'm in my slow, fat assault mech:

• I check my six
  
• Always inspect possible routes leading to me for activity
  
• Look where everyone else is at and check where their targets are moving
  
• And I communicate

Come on, this ain't hard. If you're going to stand like a turret or not be aware of your surroundings, then at least have wall at your back.

All I'm hearing from you guys is "Whaa whaa, PGI change the game to meet my playstyle!" Then you guys follow up with "Mopeds have mirrors, why not our giant, futuristic robots?!" We're talking about video game balancing, not standard features for a M1A2 Abrams.

[Dimento Graven]

This isn't about balance, it never was. PGI did not in fact make a conscious decision to leave rear radar out. It was an accident they decided to leave in.

No, it's not fun that 20 tons of steal and electronically noisy fusion engine can sneak up behind another mobile pile of steel and fusion engine.

It's just stupid.

It's even more stupid to try and justify it as some sort of "balance" factor...

[Isking]

Dimento Graven, on 16 November 2012 - 09:16 PM, said:

This isn't about balance, it never was. PGI did not in fact make a conscious decision to leave rear radar out. It was an accident they decided to leave in.

No, it's not fun that 20 tons of steal and electronically noisy fusion engine can sneak up behind another mobile pile of steel and fusion engine.

It's just stupid.

It's even more stupid to try and justify it as some sort of "balance" factor...

Seriously? Have you ever stopped your mech and had your audio on? Thats how I check around corners in my light. I LISTEN FOR THEIR FOOTSTEPS!!!!!!!! It really isnt that hard to pay attention to whats going on. And if you are taking shots to the back and ignore it then its your own fault when you die. Dont cry about something that is totally avoidable.

[Scrawny Cowboy]

InnerSphereNews, on 04 January 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

Dev Blog 2 - Information Warfare

...
Targeting Tweaks

We’ve changed how targeting has worked by layering and controlling what players see and know about the opposing force elements.
Target information is now exclusively Line of Sight/Detection (LOSD). Simply put, if you, a teammate or support unit can’t directly see or detect a target using a module, that target is invisible. Target information decays rapidly. This means if you lose LOSD, you will lose all knowledge that target’s position and current status.
Details about a target are not inclusive, and is now layered based on the type of modules and BattleMech you are piloting. The concept helps emphasizes using specific `Mech and Module combinations to gain and share enhanced targeting information.
Sharing of target information is also no longer inclusive and requires a Module or C3 Master/Slave unit.

Detection

So how do you gather LOSD information? Well there are several ways.

• Direct – You can see the target directly (LOSD).
  
• Radar – Your radar can detect a target in a predetermined arc, also LOSD.
  
• Satellite Scan – Orbital scan of the battlefield, highly efficient however still limited to top-down LOSD.
  
• UAV – Similar to a Sat Scan, but localized to a specific area on the battlefield.
  
• Detectors – Dropped off on the battlefield.
  
• Units – Any non-BattleMech present on the battlefield.

...

@Dimento Graven

This came from Dev Blog 2, so I'd say they had this planned for quite awhile.

[Fooooo]

Not sure how long you have been playing OP, but its been like this since the game first had testers from outside PGI.....


Rear-view mirrors on a mech ?

Wouldn't work at all, the cockpits are enclosed, and most don't have vision out the sides, so nowhere to even PUT a rear-view mirror.....add to that it would look silly on a mech don't you think ?

It would also get blown off as soon as any fighting happened, basically negating the whole mirror in the first place..........

The main reason for no 360 detection is for gameplay reasons. If you could detect anyone in a 360 arc then anyone trying to sneak around you or your line will be detected before they can do anything useful.

Take this situation with all mechs having 360 detection. A light mech gets to a ridge behind you, pops over to see who is around and maybe spot for some LRMS..........and you detect him right away without even looking. Straight away you call your teammates and they come and help you.

So much for sneaky gameplay or tactics....they get nullified because the response time is reduced to almost 0.

Without 360 radar , you have to watch areas people MAY try to sneak up on you, meaning if a smart player can avoid your vision arc he can target you without you knowing, or come up and get a first strike on you before you can call for backup.

Thats not cheap, or poor gameplay, thats excellent gameplay, 2 players each trying to outwit each other by staying hidden. 1 is staying back to fire LRM's, the other is trying to scout / attack the LRM boats.........both require the players to be alert and aware of their surroundings, not rely on a computer to tell them......

It all comes down to 1 thing.....skill. Having it this way adds to the skill level as you have to do something to prevent it, not be static.....

[Az0r]

In this thread - Crusty tabletop players get mad when their atlas loses to lights because they cant see the whole battlefield at once (like in TT)

Also pgi said they couldn't implement rear camera because it would increase the game's system requirements to undesirable levels.

[Ranzear]

Rearview mirrors are Clan tech.

[parman01]

How about active / passive radar thing like in previous MW ? Meaning when you're on passive they can't detect you without LOS but you also can't detect them without LOS.

Or is it some kind of hi-tech not available in current timeline? I'm not quite familiar with the lore.

[Az0r]

parman01, on 17 November 2012 - 02:58 AM, said:

How about active / passive radar thing like in previous MW ? Meaning when you're on passive they can't detect you without LOS but you also can't detect them without LOS.

Or is it some kind of hi-tech not available in current timeline? I'm not quite familiar with the lore.

Imagine being able to lock on to anyone and anything, at anytime, anywhere on the map. That would make for a terrible game