157 replies to this topic

[Reoh]

bizzQc, on 16 November 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

first at far I see Jenners are op.

They Take to mush punishment for the speed and firepower they own.

a groupe of 3 jenners Will win a game every-time.

lagging running around
doing circle of death.

it is really annoying and ruin the fun of the game.


mec warrior should be a slow strategic shooter.

not who circle the faster the game.

This works for pretty much 1 reason; no collision. Before they removed that, 3 Jenners would continuously trip one another up and expose themselves to some solid alpha strikes forcing them off or killing them outright. Once collision is back in game they won't be as bad.

[shabowie]

Wolfways, on 17 November 2012 - 03:14 AM, said:

Big slow mech, you can chose a part, concentrate firepower and destroy it.
Small fast mech, you can't choose a part and so damage is spread across the mech, assuming you can hit it at all.

If you are awful at the game maybe. I personally just aim for the legs on lights in general until either one falls off. Then while they are recovering from the leg loss animation I blow off the other one.

Since a strategy I use successfully against lights in an assault mech is something you say can't be done your stance is very weak.

And BTW when I play a light and I come up against a heavier mech who's pilot is aiming for and hitting my legs (because he or she knows how to shoot accurately) I disengage immediately and go look for easier meat.

Edited by shabowie, 17 November 2012 - 04:05 AM.

[Wolfways]

shabowie, on 17 November 2012 - 03:58 AM, said:

If you are awful at the game maybe. I personally just aim for the legs on lights in general until either one falls off. Then while they are recovering from the leg loss animation I blow off the other one.

Since a strategy I use successfully against lights in an assault mech is something you say can't be done your stance is very weak.

And BTW when I play a light and I come up against a heavier mech who's pilot is aiming for and hitting my legs (because he or she knows how to shoot accurately) I disengage immediately and go look for easier meat.

What exactly do you do that i said can't be done?
You fire at multiple locations (i.e. the legs, which are actually harder to hit than the body so you miss more) to take the light out. You just reinforced my point.
Also, you're pointing out the need to slow the light down first. If speed wasn't an issue then you'd be firing at the head, torso, or wherever you choose.

[CGB AKTEP]

Tired of reading this "Jenner is the best, atlas is the worst". I play a jenner and an atlas. You know what? My jenner is not a bit more effective (usually) than the atlas because of collisions, lag and so on. I am getting rammed in ten seconds sometimes, if the enemy has good marksmen. I am done by a couple of other lights sometimes, and sometimes I get rammed by a really good light pilot in a raven, commando or another jenner, especially when I'm damaged. I can be destroyed by one or two AC-20 hits, and that happens. Sometimes. Why isn't that often? Why I am much more often put down while I am in atlas?

Because nobody supports atlases. I leave cover for you to make a shot, and you wait and stare at my back. I get a light up my ***, and nobody shoots it in a fight - they try to finish that gauss cat I am shooting at now, because its' torso is red.

Because nobody fights jenners, except the poor guys that jenners are onto. When I see a damaged light, noone will help him, 'cos I'm at full health. They'll wait till their comrade falls. So the poor guy has to run to his heavier friends, and I leave him alone for some time. If he has time. When I'm biting a cat, no lights come. Just some nice guys in heavier things, who can make me run off for some time. If they have time.

Jenners are not OP. Playing with good team is OP. I cannot backstab an atlas of a good team, and I cannot kill a damaged cat of a good team. 'cos they don't give me the chances. I just have to go to the fighting and hope that my bigger partners will do something good.
Atlases are not bad. When there are a couple of cats and a light behind my back, I am almost undestructable. It's a matter of teamwork. So try to communicate when playing, and you'll have more chances to get rid of an enemy jenner or to have your back covered. And, you know, be a good teammate. It also helps.

Edited by AKTEP, 17 November 2012 - 04:17 AM.

[Johnny Reb]

Heh, don't like Jenners wait till you get a load of my 133.5 k/h fast centurion. Now with streaks!

[shabowie]

Wolfways, on 17 November 2012 - 04:14 AM, said:

What exactly do you do that i said can't be done?

Focus fire on specific parts of fast mechs and actually hit them. You said the damage would be "spread around if you can hit at all." I'm saying you can definitely hit them and the way it is is spread around if you are aiming for the legs is not ineffective. I don't really care which leg blows off first.

Further I'm telling you that your example of thinking of a large mech as one location like the CT and thinking of lighter mechs as multiple locations and that that necessarily provides a disadvantage to the heavier slower mech is false. The legs of a Jenner added together are not as strong as the CT of an Atlas. A fight between a Jenner and an Atlas is also not even in terms of firepower on tap. In many fights I get into versus lights I get multiple heavier salvos per their one. 1-2 as the light tries to close to it's weapon max range, 1 while it's getting off a shot, 1-2 if they disengage. If they just try to circle behind me their damage always gets spread across multiple locations as I twist in both directions as needed to keep them under my guns.

Then there are environmental factors like obstacles they are far more likely to run into at high speed and their own high speed making their gunnery more difficult.

Wolfways, on 17 November 2012 - 04:14 AM, said:

Also, you're pointing out the need to slow the light down first. If speed wasn't an issue then you'd be firing at the head, torso, or wherever you choose.

Of course speed is an issue, that the advantage lights have. The reason I fire at the legs is that it is the same hit box and armor/internal structure value from every angle, which, given that the target is a light, is going to be of their choosing. This is not the case with the front and rear torso boxes or head where it might be shielded by the rest of the body.

Edited by shabowie, 17 November 2012 - 02:02 PM.

[Cnox]

how come they don't scale down the actual distance moved per KPH? Meaning, if they were to like double the scale, everyone would be moving slower, effectively doubpling the size of the maps, but then the net code can keep up with the movement of the mechs.

so instead of it taking 2 minuts to cross the map, it takes 4 minutes, for example.

[Wolfways]

shabowie, on 17 November 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

Focus fire on specific parts of fast mechs and actually hit them. You said the damage would be "spread around if you can hit at all." I'm saying you can definitely hit them and the way it is is spread around if you are aiming for the legs is not ineffective. I don't really care which leg blows off first.

Further I'm telling you that your example of thinking of a large mech as one location like the CT and thinking of lighter mechs as multiple locations and that that necessarily provides a disadvantage to the heavier slower mech is false. The legs of a Jenner added together are not as strong as the CT of an Atlas. A fight between a Jenner and an Atlas is also not even in terms of firepower on tap. In many fights I get into versus lights I get multiple heavier salvos per their one. 1-2 as the light tries to close to it's weapon max range, 1 while it's getting off a shot, 1-2 if they disengage. If they just try to circle behind me their damage always gets spread across multiple locations as I twist in both directions as needed to keep them under my guns.

Then there are environmental factors like obstacles they are far more likely to run into at high speed and their own high speed making their gunnery more difficult.



Of course speed is an issue, that the advantage lights have. The reason I fire at the legs is that it is the same hit box and armor/internal structure value from every angle, which, given that the target is a light, is going to be of their choosing. This is not the case with the front and rear torso boxes or head where it might be shielded by the rest of the body.

I was thinking that maybe the reason i'm having such trouble with lights (apart from lag) is my mech setup. I drive a K3 (ERPPC's) but i can never decide what my other weapons should be. ML's or MPL's seem to be best but when using them my heat doesn't go down fast enough to use the ERPPC's much. If i use SL's and MG's my heat drops faster but the weapons seem useless.

[Wolfways]

Cnox, on 17 November 2012 - 02:01 PM, said:

how come they don't scale down the actual distance moved per KPH? Meaning, if they were to like double the scale, everyone would be moving slower, effectively doubpling the size of the maps, but then the net code can keep up with the movement of the mechs.

so instead of it taking 2 minuts to cross the map, it takes 4 minutes, for example.

Because that would make sense.
Lights have high speed to be able to react to changes on the battlefield (like running back to protect the base, or running to help a teammate in trouble) not to circle-strafe the enemy.
They would not be running around at max speed in an area with many obstacles (like a city) because they'd either smash into every building or have to keep slowing down for every turn.
Lights are supposed to hit-and-run, i.e. hit a target from the rear/sides and get out of there before the target turns in their direction and blasts them. Then they can find another way to hit the target from the rear/sides again.

But because lights have always had this speed taking it away now would only incite players to go mental on the forums, including Atlas players who would take forever to get anywhere

Personally i believe that it should have been that way from the start. Online games always have problems with fast moving objects, and this is Mechwarrior, not some run-and-gun like Hawken.

[Imagine Dragons]

If only I could use my Dragon's laser arm and actually use melee on a Jenner...

*que Transformers CQC SFX*

[no1337]

my dragon runs at ~ 100 kph... has a lbx and 2 LL perfect fo deal with jenners, but they insane speed makes them hard to kill...

jenners als all fast and light mechs are for scouting and harassing. not to be deal dmg of 1000. this is what i saw few minutes ago. 6 ML, were all dead with 1:7. and the last one is the jenner. our jenner kills entire enemy....... holy ****.

sure, skill but: IMBA IMBA IMBA

[Nuclear Weapon]

Yes !!! take the Jenners out of the game, BAN THEM ALL !!!

...then ban the Commandos, those are anoying too, oooh and the cicadas because they run faster that others...

mmmm maybe they should also remove atlases and centurions, I got killed by those once...

NO NO NO, CATS !!! remove ALL the cats !!!

and then we can think of removing the rest of the mechs...


¬¬ seriously ppl, grow a pair



Just saying :)P

Edited by Nuclear Weapon, 18 November 2012 - 02:13 PM.

[Blark]

I know It's been said before, but It's not the jenner (although it is still the strongest light), but the messed up netcode + missing collisions.
Fix those two, and I expect a dramatic change, most light pilots will die like flies and the good light pilots will have fun playing their favorite class again.

[Kavoh]

Yes its well known that Jenners are benefiting from the lag and bad netcode more then any other mech out there. I really find it hilarious that some people in this thread (I'm looking at YOU a few pages back) who come in and openly say they are extremely good at this game, and it has nothing to do with the Jenner being broken as hell right now. We don't need your "tips", its common knowledge how to combat fast mechs. The problem is when you have to lead/trail the target to hit them, and they band back and forth/side to side.Sorry, but we don't need your "ace" strategy.

Edited by Kavoh, 18 November 2012 - 02:34 PM.

[Kaijin]

All that's really needed to put Light mechs back in their place is to throttle all mechs down to half of maximum speed whenever a turn is made. Hit the 'A' or 'D' and your speed drops briefly. Lean on either and you're going half as fast. A little carryover from TT that would probably cure the circling problem.

edit: lest anyone accuse me of QQing, I'm not a Fatlas driver. Catapults, Jenners, and Commandos are what I've got mastered.

Edited by Kaijin, 18 November 2012 - 02:58 PM.

[Kassatsu]

The netcode and collision fixes can't possibly come soon enough. It will be glorious to watch these Jenner pilots that think they're good getting what's coming to them. The QQ threads will be just as delicious. I personally use a Raven and dare I say it, am actually developing scouting strategies and tactics that don't exclusively involve holding A or D and left-clicking.

Right now the only decent way to combat the Jenners seems to be with an SSRM boat (or better yet, two) covering teammates. LRMs rarely hit them, and any other type of weapon is nearly worthless.

I'm sure that's all been said before, but meh... I just got out of my fifth consecutive match where the sole deciding factor was who had more Jenners with the highest XL engine rating possible.

[Big Brother1984]

bizzQc, on 16 November 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

ahahha Lag shield That a good one.

I've new to the forums... what's this lagshield you speak of?

[Felicitatem Parco]

Jenners are ruining the game.

Cicadas are ruining the game.

GaussCats are ruining the game.

Laser Boats are ruining the game.

Missile boats are ruining the game.

Matchmaking is ruining the game.

The Economy is ruining the game.

Trial Mechs are ruining the game.

Atlas Mechs are ruining the game.

Premades are ruining the game.

Lone Wolf PUGers are ruining the game.

Caustic Valley is ruining the game.

Being a free game is ruining the game.

MC-content is ruining the game.

Freeloaders are ruining the game.

Premium Accounts are ruining the game.

Fast Assault Mechs are ruining the game.

Engine restrictions are ruining the game.

8-player groups are ruining the game.

Group-size reductions are ruining the game.

Lack of VoIP is ruining the game.

Partnering with C3 VoIP is ruining the game.

The Devs' refusal to set concrete dates for content is ruining the game

The Dev's posting of dates to forecast upcoming content releases is ruining the game.





And it's all PGI's fault.

And it's all IGP's fault.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 18 November 2012 - 03:18 PM.

[Harmatia]

Devils Advocate, on 16 November 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

I agree 100%, but it's really a netcode issue first and foremost, and whether or not the developers can do anything about it remains to be seen. Their last 'improvement' on the netcode was rolling it back to an older build, so let's just hope they can actually make it better in the future.

I'd have to agree. My last game involved a Jenner pilot with a ping of 308, had 5 kills and was ultimately the deciding factor in an otherwise intense and close game. Said player just kept skipping around when many of us tried to target him. However if collisions were still around he would have collided with other mechs and terrains way too many times to have survived. It doesn't deter myself from playing, but PGI really needs to deal with this ASAP.

[Kaijin]

Harmatia, on 18 November 2012 - 03:19 PM, said:

I'd have to agree. My last game involved a Jenner pilot with a ping of 308, had 5 kills and was ultimately the deciding factor in an otherwise intense and close game. Said player just kept skipping around when many of us tried to target him. However if collisions were still around he would have collided with other mechs and terrains way too many times to have survived. It doesn't deter myself from playing, but PGI really needs to deal with this ASAP.

Seems like collision damage is still in. I've seen Commandos vaporize running into something. It's knockdown that we're missing, and we may be missing it for quite some time, if not indefinitely. If memory serves, PGI is looking at knockdown only occurring if one mech charges into another. If that's the case, Light mechs will be able to continue running around willy nilly, as long as they don't bump into another mech.