2926 replies to this topic

[Battlefinger]

PGI, you are not doing enough to make the most of the cockpit view as it is, you shouldn't be adding things that horrifically break immersion and fairness when the first-person view is not even up to scratch yet. For the falling animation, I want to see the ground rush up at me, not a jarring camera shift to third person, to watch a slow little fall. When I die, I'd like to see the explosion from the pilots view before the whole mech detonates or collapses too. The first person view needs many improvements before before you even consider any method of incorporating third-person view. I'm certain there is much higher demand for many more things than third-person perspective, it should be waaaaaaaay down the list of features at the moment.

You don't seem to understand why people don't want third person.
Let me spell it out a little for you.
It is because the people that use third person have an unrealistic tactical advantage over those that don't use it. That advantage is being able to see around corners and over hills without having to expose yourself, being able to see the enemy while they can't see you. The most ignorant and absurd thing to come out of the announcement so far is the notion that it "would simply be an additional option that, if you don’t want it, won’t affect you". OF COURSE IT WILL AFFECT US. THAT IS ABSOLUTE NONSENSE. There is almost no way to have third person view without damaging the immersion factor of the game, and that is quite honestly the most important thing in any sim game. Immersion is what takes a game from being average to excellent, from a bunch of technologies thrown together to something you actually care about. You haven't even at this stage yet, you need to be finding things that will make us feel more like the pilot, not the opposite. Cockpit sounds are urgent to help with this, you are only able to engage with hearing and sight in this game, and you have thus far neglected to use sound as an immersion feature. The visuals in the cockpit are lacking any decent ambient visual feedback, the displays have a low opacity and very low contrast, not to mention a lack of definition on some of the blurrier text. Yes, I play with all visual settings maxed out. Nobody should be able to miss the fact that their base is being captured, but it happens.
The immersion factor is what we want most from this game, it's what we have craved since MechWarrior 2 (I suppose Mechwarrior 1, but there wasn't really decent enough display capabilities to get most information across). It's what we want, and what you threaten to take away. Tread VERY carefully on your next announcement about this, and make a response soon. Your player base is getting very frustrated of late, as there have been numerous design choices that seem to alienate a lot of the core experiences recently, and these announcements are not being balanced out with anything positive for us, no brand new information that we actually want to hear. With a recent poll of well over THREE THOUSAND MEMBERS, the community determined without a doubt that we didn't want a third person perspective to be considered for a long time. I say a poll of over three thousand members, and the vote for "No" was also over three thousand members. Over 90% of the votes were against third-person. Pack it in, and focus on the stuff that needs doing, not ridiculous pandering to people well outside your player base. Make a good game FIRST. Make us happy FIRST. Then, and only then, should you start concerning yourselves with the expansion of your market. You need a dedicated core player base, so STOP ALIENATING THEM.

[Elder Thorn]

EpicStoryGuy, on 16 November 2012 - 08:20 PM, said:

What if In third person mode if you did not have line of sight, the target didn't show up? A map tells essentially the same thing, just leave out what you can't see. Don't change the target state, just the rendering of the model.

you mean like the ******** system in World of Tanks?
No thanks

[Kremator1968]

Little tip for PGI..... Just don't do it. Can you imagine people using 3rd person view to peek around a corner without being exposed?

3rd person is NOT MechWarrior! Just .... Don't .... Do .... It !

[Kaiden]

Yes! Cant wait for 3rd Person view! Hate getting stuck on rocks, buildings etc.

[Gunny McDuck]

Kaiden, on 18 November 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

Yes! Cant wait for 3rd Person view! Hate getting stuck on rocks, buildings etc.

Question:

Will you always pilot in 3rd person?
Will you use it to look around corners and over hills or other terrain features?

Why do you think you keep running into things?

[Hard Rain]

i think 3rd person is good ONLY if it shows a front view of ur own mech so u can admire of look at the damage. no seeing in front of u, no looking round a hill, no looking behind ur mech.

[o0Marduk0o]

A replay function with 3rd person spectator would be the best option. All I want is to watch my mech in combat.

[Armageddon]

I'm in favor of of a 3rd Person viewing mode & so are many, many other MechWarriors. Every Mech game in history has had a 3rd person mode. Get over it! I'm really, REALLY excited that 3rd person is coming.

[Gunny McDuck]

Armageddon, on 18 November 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

I'm in favor of of a 3rd Person viewing mode & so are many, many other MechWarriors. Every Mech game in history has had a 3rd person mode. Get over it! I'm really, REALLY excited that 3rd person is coming.

Maybe you'll answer the same questions I've asked several times before:
I'd really like someone that is in the obvious minority on the forums to help us understand why they want 3rd person, what they expect to be able to do with it, and how they expect that to be received by the rest of the community.

Will you always pilot in 3rd person?
Will you use it to look around corners and over hills or other terrain features?

Do you consider yourself a casual or hardcore player?

Do you play with an organized group all the time?
If so, is it the same one all the time, or is it a random group on one of the public TS servers?

Based on your signature block it looks like you're not a pug, at least not some of the time.

Is this your first Mechwarrior/battletech game, or have you played other MW games?
Would you rather play a game mode with no ammo, no heat, and a 3rd person view?

Here is a new one:
Would you use it in order to gain an in-game tactical advantage over others that did not use 3rd person perspective?

Edited by Gunny McDuck, 18 November 2012 - 10:59 AM.

[Wildcat]

I Think a Great Many are overreacting.... I see no Harm nor any form of advantage that can be taken with a 3rd Person View...

I hope PGI adds the 3rd Person view and then everyone will just see that they are Overreacting over NOTHING......... PGI should add 3rd Person View, for one Patch cycle and see what everyone thinks about it....

I really REALLY see no advantage here whatsoever.... as long as the 3rd Person View does not act like a Detection Device, then you shouldnt see someone sneaking up on you...

And this is the Future.... it is very very hard to believe that we will not have some form of Camera Drones flying around, and advanced Surveillance for Mechs as in 3rd Person View

AirVengeance, on 16 November 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

It will affect everyone that chooses not to cheat at a sim game. 3rd person get's activated I will drop this game.

You and the 34 others will be Back..... they always do....

Edited by Wildcat, 18 November 2012 - 11:27 AM.

[Zynk]

MFToast, on 18 November 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

Even hardcore jet simulators have a 3rd person view. Get over it.

I bet you have never flown a real jet simulator, news flash there is no 3rd person view for the pilot when he is flying it.

[Kill3rAce]

I'm still very disappointed I do hope this does not get implemented I have never seen a version of 3rd person that prevents peaking

[Wildcat]

Zynk, on 18 November 2012 - 12:10 PM, said:

I bet you have never flown a real jet simulator, news flash there is no 3rd person view for the pilot when he is flying it.

!!!NEWS FLASH!!!

In the Future, Jets will have some form of 3rd Person View.... its the way Technology is Evolving... and it is very hard to believe that in another 1000 years there would be no such thing...

[grayson marik]

Besides all the valid arguments being brought up against 3rd, the most annoying from my point of view is, that they really think 3rd would solve anything for new players....

They will still run into buildings, because if they float behind the mech, torso 90 degree switched to left for example, they will still not see much in the direction they are running.
So the whole argument for 3rd is absolutely pointless and justifies in no way the break of design pattern for the game and of course not even one hour of development time that could be used for the real issues at hand!

If they want to bring in some eye candy for the masses, there are plenty of things they could do without going arcade!

You know, in german there is a saying:

Opium fürs Volk, S.cheisse für die Massen!
Opium for the people, S.hit for the masses! - something close to this in translation it looses a bit of its bite... but never the less, that's what 3rd is: just cheap crap for the dump mass to move it for a very very short time.

3rd is the road to dumb down game depth in order to compete with other arcade like games. But this is not the road to success for such a nice IP like Battletech and Mechwarrior! The road to success imho is to fullfill an authentic sim of Mechwarrior for its dedicated playerbase and to cater to the people, who like sophisticated gaming. Action with depth - a litle bit more than only reflex training for young console gamers.
Grown up people, who like grown up games.

PGI please try to fill the nice that will keep this game rolling for a long time, don't dare challenging WoT and the like!
Most of us are here because this is NOT and feels NOT and looks NOT like ( just for example) WoT!!

3rd is not only a matter of an exploitable view of the battlefield, its a matter of philosophy for a good MW simulation!

And a good majority of your dedicated player base does not wish to follow the philosophy 3rd means!

Edited by grayson marik, 18 November 2012 - 09:31 PM.

[Milocinia]

DO NOT add 3rd person PGI. Please, just don't do it.

[Gunny McDuck]

Wildcat, on 18 November 2012 - 12:14 PM, said:

!!!NEWS FLASH!!! In the Future, Jets will have some form of 3rd Person View.... its the way Technology is Evolving... and it is very hard to believe that in another 1000 years there would be no such thing...

Hmmmmm...

In the "future", multi-multi million c-bill mechs, the pinnacle of engineering and technology....

Don't have 360 degree radar, rear view cameras, or lots of other things you think they'd have.

Ever hear of Lost technology, or LOStech?

So yeah....no.....

[Gremlich Johns]

The only way the 3rd person option could be implemented, if it comes to that, would be:

1) 1st person view only servers
2) 1st and 3rd person view servers
3) 3rd person view only servers for the console players

each player would be able to check a box in his options page for either 1st person view only or 3rd person only with the default being 1st AND 3rd person view. The launcher would have to be able to plug players into the correct server.

Regardless, 3rd person without limiting its implementation will indeed bring about the demise of the game. It has happened before in other games (like any non-league version of the MW franchise) for the exact same reason.

UAVs could be employed, but you better have to be piloting them while they are up. that way you have to do something besides shoot somebody, making the game more challenging.

@wildcat, it isn't the future, this is MW/BT, you cannot bring our reality into it without bringing in other "stuff", like shooting at ranges in excess of 1000m. You cannot, in reality, peek over/under/around obstacles without taking your eyes and mind off of protecting your posterior.

@armageddon, there are not, as you suggest, "many, many players" that want this option. Well, unless you figure 9% of the forum posters makes "many, many", then you need to consider the number that are not interested as, to use your scale of "many, many" = 9% polled, an "f-ing screaming s-load" of players do not want 3rd person implemented.

Frankly, I do not see the cost benefit analysis as being a positive for PGI.

[Gunny McDuck]

And since the only hard numbers we have are the polls on the forums, which are overwhelmingly anti-3rd person, until someone shows up with hard data on how many people have asked for this feature, its all hearsay.

Now if someone from PGI shows up next week and says that they've gotten 37,231 emails asking for this in the last 2 weeks or whatever, then fine, that would be something signficant.

I would then think that PGI should send out a mass e-mail to every registered user to go to the MWO homepage and vote for/against 3rd person perspective.

Edited by Gunny McDuck, 18 November 2012 - 01:00 PM.

[DrBunji]

Gunny McDuck, on 18 November 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

And since the only hard numbers we have are the polls on the forums, which are overwhelmingly anti-3rd person, until someone shows up with hard data on how many people have asked for this feature, its all hearsay.

And if PGI decides to not make those public thats a great way to justify putting anything they want in there. Cynicism aside, I still believe in the PGI guys; I dont think they are going to put in 3rd person, and if they do it will be something harmless like tutorial or similar.

Though, of course, my faith in them would just make my heartbreak even harder if they actually put it in.

[Irregular programming]

I disagree about splitting the playerbase, 3d person is not something I'd like in the game or se the reason to spend development time for.

Maybe do it like world war 2 online where 3d person was restricted to a simple offline mode where you could drive stuff around but for the real game I don't see the reason for it to exist.