2926 replies to this topic

[HipposChloros]

RENZOKUKEN, on 26 November 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

Gunny, I'm not even going to validate your post with an explanation. However, the data that you request does exist, and this is in reference to the game MechWarrior 4, as an example of 3rd Person vs First Person gameplay. If you have no experience with that game you wouldn't understand, as I understand you are new to MechWarrior, so I wouldn't expect you to be on the same level as me.

Unfortunately many of us do have experience with that game. The problem is that 3rd person is easy mode. This was supposed to be a "mech sim". It is pretty hard to simulate actualy being in a mech when you are not in it. Add in the problem of subdividing the comunity too far and you water down the player base.

Edited by HipposChloros, 28 November 2012 - 05:11 AM.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Rent with the option to buy.

Having played MW3 & MW4, I say NO but seeing as it is beyond my control, I would like the option if it IS implemented to have two servers, one for those 3PV noobs & one that is FFP (Forced First Person). Let them play their ruined game & have fun doing that while not ******* off the majority of the player base.

I am a FREE player PGI. I am not spending a dime on an unfinished product & if you add elements that I (and what appears to be a majority of the players) neither like nor want, you will not see any money from me. I feel sorry for all you Founders who are crying now that there is stuff in the game you do not like & are demanding your $ back.

PGI, you say you listen to the fans, then listen & stop that **** NOW.

NOW.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 28 November 2012 - 04:16 AM.

[HipposChloros]

RENZOKUKEN, on 27 November 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

I am talking not about myself, but an entire community of gamers in the game MechWarrior 4, ...

... are not necessarily bad, but can be extremely good such as the MechWarrior 4 3rd Person View, which resulted in several league which allowed it and were very successful, active and fun to play in.

Seriously bro. It sounds like you are stuck in the past. If you want MechWarrior 4 and your former glory days then start petitioning to get that game back up and running. We were promissed a "Sim" with first person only. Now that they have our money that is about to change. Of course people who already paid are going to be upset. This is not the game they paid for.

[McKhaye]

grayson marik, on 27 November 2012 - 11:07 PM, said:

Might be biased but I think the sacrifice would be too big if 3pv would come in any way since the sacrifice would be simply the game itself.

You are biased. And paranoid and jumping to conclusions.

You literally just said "If 3pv makes it into the game in ANY WAY the entire game would be destroyed/worthless". So yes, not entirely acting logically here.

Sean von Steinike, on 27 November 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

So they are stupid idiots and shouldn't be catered to if they cannot understand such a simple concept.

Rejarial Galatan, on 27 November 2012 - 10:08 PM, said:

if the console brats cannot learn this, then tough beans.

Irrational hatred, check and check.

Look, like I said before, I don't really want 3pv in the game, but let's go through the possibilities here huh?

Worst case scenario in case PGI goes back on what they said at the beginning of this thread and just goes bat-**** insane: Entire game is forced 3pv.

I would probably still play the game. It'd lose some flavor, sure. But I'd probably still play. Hell if anything it'd get rid of half of some of the worst elements in the community insofar as I can tell.

3pv as a match option in all styles of match?

That might kind of suck and "divide the community", but has anyone thought that having 3pv might actually bring a lot of players in? I don't think that's a good reason for implementing 3pv, but there are logical reasons why it might draw people in. But oh wait, those new players would be "console brats" and totally unlike you rational, pleasant, responsible adults.

Frankly I'd love to get into it on the logistics of this whole ridiculous situation but I have a policy about wasting time on forums with disagreeable people that don't listen that I'm already at least partially violating.

[FLes]

JadeViper, on 27 November 2012 - 05:36 AM, said:

Don't call these players pithetic or dumb. They are just different players without our strong MW backround.

I don't have MW background and I am a casual gamer and I figured it out quickly and easily. You even have an arrow drawn right in front of your nose. So, yes, anyone who can't comprehend that legs don't go the same way as torso is one dumb mother.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

RENZOKUKEN, on 27 November 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

You keep speaking of advantages, I am talking about 3PV Only, meaning no one using FFP, also talking about FFP only leagues. So where is the advantage in an even playing field?

I am talking not about myself, but an entire community of gamers in the game MechWarrior 4, and several leagues, some FFP and some 3PV, as a comparison to emphasize on the fact of 3rd Person View as a viable game type that takes skill, perhaps even more skill than FFP in some ways.

My only argument is that people should not be so close minded to the idea of 3PV, because the changes it makes to the gameplay are not necessarily bad, but can be extremely good such as the MechWarrior 4 3rd Person View, which resulted in several league which allowed it and were very successful, active and fun to play in. In my opinion, it can make the game better with elements such as Pop Sniping and Jumpsniping which are techniques of using cover effectively, and can also be done in FFP with enough skill.

Yes, it requires no more skill to play MWO and any noob can feel as a hero ... most of this Popsniper- Jump sniper would get in a real 1PV hardly kills .. I'm hope all this at -12 Years.Looser Noobs not want to learn TKs so all these players stay away.

Edited by CSJ Ranger, 28 November 2012 - 09:21 AM.

[JadeViper]

Sean von Steinike, on 27 November 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

So they are stupid idiots and shouldn't be catered to if they cannot understand such a simple concept.

Wow, just wow. Sound like a great way to have MWO shrivel and die.

Well I feel like John Stewart trying to talk sense to a FoxNews cheer-leading squad.

The only solace I hold is that the Dev's care about this game and its real community, and will explore possibilities that will be beneficial to MWO and the franchise and disregard the 850+ posts of irrationality, and keep the 100 posts that actually argue empirical foundation to the platforms of pro-3rd, and no-3rd. Empirical: look it up.

I agree with what someone else mentioned beforehand: If this forum's behavior in anyway remotely resembles the community, MWO has a despicable player base. I'm shamed to share the Founders icon with most of you. Again, solace in the fact that this forum is a minority. Loud and rude, but ultimately tiny.

My posts in the last 2 days have staked a solid rational foundation. Nothing more needs to be said.

Out.

[Randodan]

I have to admit, even hardcore flightsims like the DCS series allows a third person view -- but not to play the sim like that, but rather to admire the plane you're flying.
You get to pan the camera around, zoom in and out, but you're not presented with any HUD or other cues that allow you to fight effectively engage targets. On the other hand, it's quite "sexy" to watch your plane from the outside in all its glory.
Heck, you even get a flyby view which is even more impressive, but doesn't do anything towards engaging a target either.

I can see something like that as a third person option, because it wouldn't affect the actual gameplay.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Randodan, on 28 November 2012 - 08:53 AM, said:

I have to admit, even hardcore flightsims like the DCS series allows a third person view -- but not to play the sim like that, but rather to admire the plane you're flying.
You get to pan the camera around, zoom in and out, but you're not presented with any HUD or other cues that allow you to fight effectively engage targets. On the other hand, it's quite "sexy" to watch your plane from the outside in all its glory.
Heck, you even get a flyby view which is even more impressive, but doesn't do anything towards engaging a target either.

I can see something like that as a third person option, because it wouldn't affect the actual gameplay.

However, these are all single player games where you can not watch other players and with locations or can fire, if players do not interfere with cockpit vibrations and effects of weapons strikes wird.Ich love the post Gameplay Cam BF2

[Randodan]

CSJ Ranger, on 28 November 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

However, these are all single player games where you can not watch other players and with locations or can fire, if players do not interfere with cockpit vibrations and effects of weapons strikes wird.Ich love the post Gameplay Cam BF2

Good point. Even though DCS supports realistic multiplayer games, most game hosts disable third person because it's considered "cheating". Guess that's the elephant in the room here, isn't it?

[FallguySoldier]

I'm starting to get the idea that the reason why there are so many complaints is because PGI is using the excuse that 3rd person should be allowed in order to help people reorient themselves. This is probably a poor way of presenting the 3rd person feature. Honestly, an in-game tutorial session will be much more effective to teach the newbies how to pilot a mech. 3rd person should be only for aesthetics, like a means to take part in a firefight with a much more dramatic angle. This is why I support the over-the-shoulder view (as opposed to the over-the-head view) much like what you see in Gears of War, Resident Evil 5, or Transformers: War of Cybertron. It's viable, it's not game-breaking, and adds visual quality. Again, I'll reference this picture because this is what inspired me to support 3rd person view here (though the perspective should be much more close-up behind the Hunchback):

[shotokan5]

Stop the whining . MW did incredibly well until MS got greedy. I would play it in forth person if I had to . Many of youFirst person players like myself. should be just happy we have a mech game at all. MS got tired of all your whining. If any group can figure something out they will. Its to me like not playing Mech without a joystick. Want to argue about that? Its the same thing . I hate this stupid M+K but I still play. They so say we will have our joysticks working great at game time. But I still would play with M+K if I had to .I would not take my ball and go home because everything is not my way. That is what it really comes down to. Do we always have to find something to complain about. What will destroy this game is not the developers but you will go just because you don't get everything you want. Life is tough. Walk down the streets of Bagdad for three tours as infantry that's tough. Lets be happy we will finally have a mech game fully supported and not by MS. These guys care, do they make mistakes yes but they will be working on this game long after its online for real. If you really are a MechWarrior fan I will see you on the battlefield no matter what. They would not have hired HAVOC if they did not care. If you do not know who he is then you don't know this game and have no right to complain. The greatest Mech maker in the world. I say that First person is the way to go but the view stinks and even you diehards have to agree with that.

Edited by shotokan5, 28 November 2012 - 09:50 AM.

[Jaroth Corbett]

McKhaye, on 28 November 2012 - 07:29 AM, said:

You are biased. And paranoid and jumping to conclusions.

You literally just said "If 3pv makes it into the game in ANY WAY the entire game would be destroyed/worthless". So yes, not entirely acting logically here.




Irrational hatred, check and check.

Look, like I said before, I don't really want 3pv in the game, but let's go through the possibilities here huh?

Worst case scenario in case PGI goes back on what they said at the beginning of this thread and just goes bat-**** insane: Entire game is forced 3pv.

I would probably still play the game. It'd lose some flavor, sure. But I'd probably still play. Hell if anything it'd get rid of half of some of the worst elements in the community insofar as I can tell.

3pv as a match option in all styles of match?

That might kind of suck and "divide the community", but has anyone thought that having 3pv might actually bring a lot of players in? I don't think that's a good reason for implementing 3pv, but there are logical reasons why it might draw people in. But oh wait, those new players would be "console brats" and totally unlike you rational, pleasant, responsible adults.

Frankly I'd love to get into it on the logistics of this whole ridiculous situation but I have a policy about wasting time on forums with disagreeable people that don't listen that I'm already at least partially violating.

1. We are speaking from experience. It ruined MW4.
2. We were promised First Person only, so how about the developers stick to their word?

[River Walker]

Jaroth Winson, on 28 November 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

1. We are speaking from experience. It ruined MW4.
2. We were promised First Person only, so how about the developers stick to their word?

So tell me did having a chix box in all MW game that lock the feet with the torso at a movement of 140% lift and right make it unplayable to.

You guys that want all user to beat the Crap out of there keyboards are the one that are the problem. Yes I have played and have all the PC game and I use to blow off legs at will with a joystick and or mouse an keyboard with the box chix .

Beating the Crap out of your keyboard dos not make you good it just mean you love the hand cramp and buying a new keyborad 2 or 3 times a year.

[Agent of Change]

River Walker, on 28 November 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

So tell me did having a chix box in all MW game that lock the feet with the torso at a movement of 140% lift and right make it unplayable to.

You guys that want all user to beat the Crap out of there keyboards are the one that are the problem. Yes I have played and have all the PC game and I use to blow off legs at will with a joystick and or mouse an keyboard with the box chix .

Beating the Crap out of your keyboard dos not make you good it just mean you love the hand cramp and buying a new keyborad 2 or 3 times a year.

what?

I mean that seriously, I am not sure what you are trying to say.

Best I can figure you are a joystick players and are upset(?) about keyboard and mouse players, and that somehow playign with a mouse and keyboard means damaging your keyboard... i think.

Am i close?

[River Walker]

Agent of Change, on 28 November 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

what?

I mean that seriously, I am not sure what you are trying to say.

Best I can figure you are a joystick players and are upset(?) about keyboard and mouse players, and that somehow playign with a mouse and keyboard means damaging your keyboard... i think.

Am i close?

What I am saying JOY TOY is that if the Torso twist Box that lock the feet at 140% lift and right you keyboard Jocks would not be crying about 3 person play right now

Edited by River Walker, 28 November 2012 - 11:38 AM.

[Valcoer]

Armageddon, on 16 November 2012 - 03:11 PM, said:

I would absolutely & completely THRILLED to get a 3rd person view in MWO!!! Wow! I am so excited this is a possibility now! Lacking a 3rd person view was one of my biggest complaints in MWO.

FrupertApricot, on 16 November 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

Wow this is weak. Way to completely ignore the lions share of the paying playerbase to grab for cheap pluralism.

Offering it WILL affect those who refuse to use it as it confers a distinct advantage. Wait til you have ******* Highlanders with 3rd person on using small hill crests to hop n shoot gauss til the game ends. No ******* sale.

did any of you listen to the pod cast?
what I heard was that it was going to be used as a training tool to teach noobs how to torso twist and would not be unlimited in duration. secondly I heard russ say that it would be an external view and not a traditional third person camera possibly a hip or shoulder cam to allow players to acclimatize to the torso twist.
so go listen to the pod cast as the creator of this thread suggests and come back and complain about legitimate problems with the third person idea.
ps I dont want third person either but if it is used as he stated as a training tool for noobs and not as an optional for all time and everyone to use whenever they wanted then I would not have a problem with it even tho i feel there are better ways to accomplish the same thing with out catering to the peanut gallery that thinks third person view is a good idea.

[JadeViper]

Jaroth Winson, on 28 November 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

1. We are speaking from experience. It ruined MW4.
2. We were promised First Person only, so how about the developers stick to their word?

1) As is everyone else who is a founder. I am not blind to the potential negative impacts, assuming the Piranha fails at implementing it. I bet they can do better than Microsoft. And yet we all still played MW4, didn't we? And it was still good fun. Those whoa re pro-3rd have equally solid footing.

2) IMHO, so long as they add features, and not take them away, I don't care what they do. As long as I can still play first person, I'm fine with someone in third. There are ways to make it fair. I like the idea of hiding all UI like in the flight sim so you can just enjoy the aesthetics. And, personally, I don't care if someone abuses it. I'm getting abused by jump jetting streak cats. I haven't rage quit, and I still get xp an a profit every round.

[Agent of Change]

River Walker, on 28 November 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:

What I am saying JOY TOY is that if the Torso twist Box that lock the feet at 140% lift and right you keyboard Jocks would not be crying about 3 person play right now

Ignoring the unwarranted insult and trying to assure you I am not trolling you let me be clear: "if the Torso twist Box that lock the feet at 140% lift and right" this bit right here is not making any sense to me.

"Torso twist Box that lock the feet" I am not sure to what you are referring here

140% of what?

"lift and right" doesn't seem to follow, can you be a little more clear with what you are saying?

I'm really not sure what any of that has to do with playing with a keyboard and mouse which is the control scheme this game was designed for.

I do really want to know what you are saying but we are either running into a jargon issue and I'm missing a term or there is a different way to frame it.

[Monky]

1001 posts... obviously a contentious issue. I hope PGI are taking the issue as seriously as the community.