46 replies to this topic

[Motionless]

LordDeathStrike, on 28 April 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

ya lets see client side only mod. like lets mod it so my ppc has no heat and fires like a machine gun (see mech 3 client side mod: the sparkler)

ps this "client side only mod" was abused to hell on the msn game rooms.

I'm pretty sure back in the day games worked differently than they do now. Like the client telling the host "okay I just shot 500 bullets in this direction," and the host would say "okay." Now a days they generally say something like "no, you didn't." And that's why if you had lag spikes many actions would all take place at once. Modern games don't work like this.

Edit:

Also the mods you're describing would be against pretty much against any game's rules even if they do allow mods. And people try to do this kind of thing even if no mods are allowed. It's pretty much an entirely unrelated issue.

Edited by Motionless, 28 April 2012 - 09:37 PM.

[Zylo]

Rejarial Galatan, on 28 April 2012 - 09:15 PM, said:

then modding client side is akin to hacking, which is no good for the games health.

Makes me glad you aren't in charge of things here. Do you also consider players with a faster PC, better control setup or higher quality connection to have an unfair advantage? What would it matter if a player wanted to change the appearance to something that for example was easier for them to see? Are you afraid that player would gain an advantage over you just by changing the layout of their HUD?

More options for players is a good thing. If the devs put in lots of options for the players to make adjustments that would be the ideal solution but there is no chance of them making every player happy with even just HUD layout choices (if there are even options to change the HUD). If players figure out a way to mod client side appearance, players will mod it and I'm sure the devs have considered this so that critical game systems are all handled server side to prevent damage to the game's health.

In the past without a central game server (not a matchmaker like MSN or even kali) each player's system handled the calculations and modding *could* be game breaking if game systems were changed.

With a central server a player will fire their weapons, server notices which weapons were fired, makes ammo and heat calculations which the player will receive from the server showing the increased heat and reduced ammo from firing. That's the basic concept anyway, actual mechanics may vary slightly but you're not going to see unlimited ammo and 0 heat mods for this game if the devs are doing the job right and I suspect they are trying to make the game as cheat proof as possible.

[Aelos03]

But it would be cool if we could use custom skins and be unique.

[Gun Bear]

How about we just be happy with what we have? MMO's are not by their very nature modder friendly.

[Skullrider]

MechRaccoon, on 27 April 2012 - 07:42 PM, said:

What do you think?

No.

Just... Damn. No.

/Thread

[Hayashi]

Rejarial Galatan, on 28 April 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

the only good mod is a mod that never existed. mod a single player game all you want. leave the MMO games out of it. too much latitude for abuse with mods.

... Lemme go find a way to not exist.

Zylo, on 28 April 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

Client side isn't displayed to other players within the game, it's just what the player using the mod will see. For example if that ELP merc unit passed out a cockpit skin with their pony logo none of the other players would see it in the game but any player using that mod would see the logo displayed on their custom cockpit skin.

PGI isn't allowing players to submit unit logos that would be displayed for all players in the game to see displayed on the outside of their mechs. So you won't see for example a mech running by with the ELP pony logo on it.

If we're talking only client-side mods that do nothing else but replace how some things look to me, I'm modding my PPC to a Master Spark and my missiles to flying daggers. If you know what I mean.

MechRaccoon, on 27 April 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

Lol. Is there any way to delete a topic? In retrospect, this one was dumb from the start. Worth a shot though.

Want me to lock it? It's up to you...

[Dataman]

Gundam? Optimus Prime?

what in the name of Ysmir's beard is this abomination?

[Skullrider]

Hayashi, on 29 April 2012 - 03:00 AM, said:

If we're talking only client-side mods that do nothing else but replace how some things look to me, I'm modding my PPC to a Master Spark and my missiles to flying daggers. If you know what I mean.

heh heavy Gauss to fire basketballs

[Aegis Kleais]

If modding is ever allowed down the line I feel it is ADAMANT that 2 things are supported and enforced.

1. Modded servers/games MUST be able to be filtered out without lying to the client
2. By default, games that are joined must be vanilla, and you have to modify the matchmaking options in order to find modded servers.

One of THE WORST things in games like Killing Floor and Team Fortress 2 is joining a server that you think is regular only to find out that there's some crazy mod running on the server and you have to disconnect and start the search process all over. Neither game has the ability to filter out modded servers.

[Hayashi]

Aegis Kleais™, on 29 April 2012 - 03:21 AM, said:

One of THE WORST things in games like Killing Floor and Team Fortress 2 is joining a server that you think is regular only to find out that there's some crazy mod running on the server and you have to disconnect and start the search process all over. Neither game has the ability to filter out modded servers.

TOTALLY!

I get pissed off when joining Left 4 Dead 2 servers only to find 10 FREAKING TANKS in the game.

[rexmundo]

do you know how ******* overpowerd a warhammer 40k titan would be in this game!!!!!!!!!! do you????

[Riin Suul]

rexmundo, on 29 April 2012 - 05:56 AM, said:

do you know how ******* overpowerd a warhammer 40k titan would be in this game!!!!!!!!!! do you????

Lol, it wouldn't fit on the map . I doubt that they will make the skyboxes on the maps high enough for that.

back on topic: the only modding that would POSSIBLY be allowed in a mmo (other than server side mods, and those servers would have to be disconnected from the "real" game) would be custom client side skins.

Skins on client side don't pose a legal risk to the game company, as only that client can see them. As much as people on these forums seem to hate references to WOT, the kind of modding that they allow wouldn't NECESSARILY hurt the game, although you would still have the issue of "hitbox" skins, highlighting the weakest parts on each mech.

Honestly, I'm not even sure that client side skins would work, as customization of colors etc on the mechs would probably mean that there isnt a fixed texture for each mech.

[Caballo]

Rejarial Galatan, on 28 April 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

the only good mod is a mod that never existed. mod a single player game all you want. leave the MMO games out of it. too much latitude for abuse with mods.

... Ask MekTek.


R-Factor's been working ONLY WITH MODS SUBMITTED BY THE COMMUNITY for years, and there wasn't a single hacker.

Tho i'm not sure if i would like mods for this game, since i've haven't even seen it yet, screaming out loud "MODS ARE WRONG IN ANY MULTIPLAYER GAME" is in the list of "the most stupid ideas i've ever heard".

PLUS, if there were any way to submit my own mods to the developers, so they may be able to evaluate them and bring them in game, it would keep MWO rolling for years, just like IL-2 is still working today.

Edited by Caballo, 29 April 2012 - 06:37 AM.

[Solarflux]

A game as awesome as mechwarrior online does not require mods.

[Hayashi]

Solarflux, on 29 April 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

A game as awesome as mechwarrior online does not require mods.

[FaustianQ]

Riin Suul, on 29 April 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

Lol, it wouldn't fit on the map . I doubt that they will make the skyboxes on the maps high enough for that.

back on topic: the only modding that would POSSIBLY be allowed in a mmo (other than server side mods, and those servers would have to be disconnected from the "real" game) would be custom client side skins.

Skins on client side don't pose a legal risk to the game company, as only that client can see them. As much as people on these forums seem to hate references to WOT, the kind of modding that they allow wouldn't NECESSARILY hurt the game, although you would still have the issue of "hitbox" skins, highlighting the weakest parts on each mech.

Honestly, I'm not even sure that client side skins would work, as customization of colors etc on the mechs would probably mean that there isnt a fixed texture for each mech.

I don't think hitbox skins would ever make an appearance or, if they do, only be useful on completely stock Mechs. Consider that in WoT, module locations and armor thickness are static - you cannot change these. So a simple change the .dds allows you too see all the critical points. However, with customizable mechs, you run into issues trying to use a static image file to represent weaknesses.

What if I pull all the armor off an arm and on to the torso? What if I change the placement of my ammo? An image file can't account for that, and if it does, you're doing more then just simply editing an image file, the type of more then can get you in trouble.

I'm pro modification, at least in the same vein as WoT, which is primarily tank skins and UI changes, with a few rare real additions, like clock, calculators, and tactical planners for the tank hangar, and if players want to modify they're Marauder to look like a MadCat, more power to them, because that only effects them, visually - the Marauders hitbox remains the same, and Marauders still look like Marauders to me.

[Motionless]

Caballo, on 29 April 2012 - 06:16 AM, said:

R-Factor's been working ONLY WITH MODS SUBMITTED BY THE COMMUNITY for years, and there wasn't a single hacker.

The Mechwarrior community has been enjoying mods for a while now. Both from Mektek and the Mechwarrior Living Legends total conversion mod for Crysis.

Aegis Kleais™, on 29 April 2012 - 03:21 AM, said:

If modding is ever allowed down the line I feel it is ADAMANT that 2 things are supported and enforced.

1. Modded servers/games MUST be able to be filtered out without lying to the client
2. By default, games that are joined must be vanilla, and you have to modify the matchmaking options in order to find modded servers.

One of THE WORST things in games like Killing Floor and Team Fortress 2 is joining a server that you think is regular only to find out that there's some crazy mod running on the server and you have to disconnect and start the search process all over. Neither game has the ability to filter out modded servers.

You can use the 'valve' tag to search for only valve servers which run just the regular game. 24 player count, normal spawn times, the whole deal. If you type 'vanilla' as a tag, you'll get what you're looking for or close to it, generally they might just have stuff like hlstatsx which keeps tracks of your kills and death and stuff, it's pretty unobtrusive and easily ignored.

Most 'registerd' servers are pretty close to vanilla I find - if not vanilla already. Registered means they're one of the servers you get thrown into when you click on 'start playing.' Some of these servers I know are very close to vanilla but include some custom sounds (like UT's MMMMONSTER KILL!)

If you go to your options and multiplayer tab you can turn off custom downloads, or just turn off only custom sounds. So those 'almost vanilla' servers will play like vanilla servers to you.

Because MWO has a persistent world that we contribute to, I think they'd be keen to separate all modded servers from vanilla. As I mentioned I think it would be cool to call all custom servers 'solaris arenas' and stick them in the game's menu like that.

[Catharsis]

I agree with the general consensus that having mods for this game would not be a good idea...

But I would just like to point out that Counter Strike, a game that is entirely multiplayer, has been continually perpetuated over the decades since its first release, thanks to modifications. The game itself started out as a mod to Half Life.

Unreal Tournament 2004 has also flourished a lot due to modifications. Amazing games like Killing Floor exist entirely because Unreal allowed people to mod UT2K4.

I am aware that the situations do not really equate. CS is fairly unique in its situation with mods, and more often than not what was modded in Unreal was the engine, as opposed to the game itself.

I just wanted to provide some argument against the statement "no mods are good mods."
Natural Selection? yeah.


You know, in a way, MWO is a "mod" for the Crysis 2. In the same way that Killing Floor is a mod for Unreal Tournament and CS is a mod for Half Life.

[Sheewa]

Mods...?

Spoiler

No, thx.

Edited by Sheewa, 29 April 2012 - 10:39 AM.

[Aegis Kleais]

Motionless, on 29 April 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

You can use the 'valve' tag to search for only valve servers which run just the regular game. 24 player count, normal spawn times, the whole deal. If you type 'vanilla' as a tag, you'll get what you're looking for or close to it, generally they might just have stuff like hlstatsx which keeps tracks of your kills and death and stuff, it's pretty unobtrusive and easily ignored.

Most 'registerd' servers are pretty close to vanilla I find - if not vanilla already. Registered means they're one of the servers you get thrown into when you click on 'start playing.' Some of these servers I know are very close to vanilla but include some custom sounds (like UT's MMMMONSTER KILL!)

If you go to your options and multiplayer tab you can turn off custom downloads, or just turn off only custom sounds. So those 'almost vanilla' servers will play like vanilla servers to you.

Because MWO has a persistent world that we contribute to, I think they'd be keen to separate all modded servers from vanilla. As I mentioned I think it would be cool to call all custom servers 'solaris arenas' and stick them in the game's menu like that.

I've been out of TF2 for a while now, but last time I was in it, Valve basically was allowing servers that ran mods and lied about what they were running. You weren't able to use the tagging system to save you from it. I could type in 'vanilla' in a tag and then join a server where on join I was told "You have $500 and 20 power crystals". Basically, Valve didn't force a modded server to be truthful about what it was running.

I really hope PGI doesn't get to that point. Any server that lies about the tags it's running should be put onto a permanent blacklist where the only way you could play on that server was by manually adding it to a whitelisted server list.