148 replies to this topic

[Vassago Rain]

Vlad Ward, on 18 November 2012 - 08:30 PM, said:

To be fair, phase 3 of MWO matchmaking would likely address this problem as the people in the super-newb tier are all very likely to be running Trials.

It's good we're getting phase 3 in two days, then!

[Vlad Ward]

Adding band-aid fixes because people don't want to wait for real solutions just makes those real solutions take longer. Dev time is a limited resource.

[Lefty Lucy]

Vlad Ward, on 18 November 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

Adding band-aid fixes because people don't want to wait for real solutions just makes those real solutions take longer. Dev time is a limited resource.

The thing is that the devs went open beta without doing *anything* to improve the new player experience.

[CG Chicken Kn]

At least the trial mechs are capable of damaging any mech in the field. And generate basically free credits.
I re-iterate, a week or so to get in to the ride of your choice is not a grind at all compared to other titles that use a free to play game model.
There are some good tutorial videos posted now that show the basics, and improvements are made with every patch.

[Vassago Rain]

CG Chicken Kn, on 18 November 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

At least the trial mechs are capable of damaging any mech in the field. And generate basically free credits.
I re-iterate, a week or so to get in to the ride of your choice is not a grind at all compared to other titles that use a free to play game model.
There are some good tutorial videos posted now that show the basics, and improvements are made with every patch.

A week locked up inside an oven, missing out on the joys of making your own deathmachine. Sounds exciting!
Maybe that's part of the reason we got so few new players from open beta.

[Jman5]

Lefty Lucy, on 18 November 2012 - 08:42 PM, said:

The thing is that the devs went open beta without doing *anything* to improve the new player experience.

I don't think that's entirely fair. They integrated a beginner tutorial video with the main game screen. Also, they seem to have split up the trial mech weapon groups in a logical way so new players weren't just alpha striking and constantly overheating. Limiting premades into groups of 4 meant beginners had a greater chance of rolling with the pros who normally went 8 player.

However, this is not nearly enough. On top of the matchmaking, We need a real in-game tutorial and some actual item description before I'm satisfied with the beginner experience. It would also be nice if they evenly split trial mechs up when possible. I hate seeing one team get all the noobs in trial mechs while I'm rolling with all founders.

edit: one other thing that will smooth out the beginner experience is to give players the option of trying before buy. Some of this stuff is freaking expensive and I would hate to purchase a 4 million upgrade only to realize I hate it 1 game later.

Edited by Jman5, 18 November 2012 - 08:57 PM.

[moneyBURNER]

I would like to think that there doesn't have to be a grind; that a company could give players an awesome core experience and then ask for support as a show of appreciation by offering cool frills and rewards, and involving players in the development of new features though sponsorship.

Make players want to pay and feel good about contributing to a community, rather than diminishing the experience to a more cynical consumer relationship.

[Elizander]

snapykill, on 18 November 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

i find that it takes a ridiculously long time to get enough money for a mech. as it takes (after some calculations) 30 matches to get 270000 and assuming each match is 10 minutes it would take five hours if you get at least 90000 per match witch is difficult because you only get 60000 if you lose so you have to win all 30 of those matches and do a good job of helping out. i myself am not the greatest at this game so its very difficult to get this much per match. so does anybody else agree?

I love this game and I agree it takes too long for a new player to get their own mech.

[Gargoth]

i dont agree...
I took an trial mech (just to experiment), played around 6-8hrs in it, got money for commando, ran enough to get basic pilot experience tree filled, by that time, i had money to buy another commando and fit it...

You make roughly 4-5mil c-bills, in a commando by playing 6hrs. (unless you have XL engine and get shot down alot)
Average, i made about 100-150k in profit, after repair&rearm.

So nope, i think c-bills work.

if you think you earn too slow, or you dont get enough c-bills per match, then get premium time.
Afterall, PGI needs their cash from somewhere, and paying 15bucks for it?
-not too bad, imho.

I would do it after getting cash for my 1st "real" (read: non trial) mech.

Edited by Gargoth, 18 November 2012 - 09:26 PM.

[fxrsniper]

acidphoenix, on 18 November 2012 - 08:27 PM, said:

You used to make a million each match so it was kind of a big change. I will admit a million is a bit much. Just as well, it is of my opinion that 90,000 ish is way too little. 400,000-500,000 would be considerably more reasonable. it would give breathing room for the more casual players, the poor players and the players who just don't have time to grind through it. That being said i want to feel like i'm playing a game and not at work. I used to be able to say that this was a non BS game that i could just play and enjoy. But that time is gone.

Yeh considering what stuff cost it takes a lot of grinding just get simple things like modules there $$

Gargoth, on 18 November 2012 - 09:22 PM, said:

i dont agree...
I took an trial mech (just to experiment), played around 6-8hrs in it, got money for commando, ran enough to get basic pilot experience tree filled, by that time, i had money to buy another commando and fit it...

You make roughly 4-5mil c-bills, in a commando by playing 6hrs. (unless you have XL engine and get shot down alot)
Average, i made about 100-150k in profit, after repair&rearm.

So nope, i think c-bills work.

if you think you earn too slow, or you dont get enough c-bills per match, then get premium time.
Afterall, PGI needs their cash from somewhere, and paying 15bucks for it?
-not too bad, imho.

I would do it after getting cash for my 1st "real" (read: non trial) mech.

Yeh but you're not thinking about the Heavies and assaults they cost more to fix than lights and med mechs

[Vlad Ward]

Maybe it's just me, but my Endo-Steel + Double Heat Sink + Artemis + 360-rated engine AS7-D Atlas costs like 30,000 c-bills to repair from an absolute wipeout.

I feel like I'm playing MWO on a completely different planet than some of the people on these forums.

[Felicitatem Parco]

The way I see things, MW:O is set up pretty well in the case of someone who's willing to throw down a few bucks to get a premium account for a short time (a few months maybe) and use that time to build a set of Go-To mechs and generate a significant c-bill reserve, then coast for free after that (spending a few bucks here and there for cosmetics, mechbays, conversions, or whatnot).

If you want to front-load your inventory and get customizing right off that bat, you either pay $60-80 for a console game, or you go Premium to frontload your inventory in MW:O. Otherwise, your inventory will grow slowly.

Free players are not gettng the "short-end of the stick" if you conside the alternative: How long would it take a free player to earn a pair of ERPPCs if this were a game you have to buy?

Vlad Ward, on 18 November 2012 - 09:30 PM, said:

Maybe it's just me, but my Endo-Steel + Double Heat Sink + Artemis + 360-rated engine AS7-D Atlas costs like 30,000 c-bills to repair from an absolute wipeout.

I feel like I'm playing MWO on a completely different planet than some of the people on these forums.

Yeah, I always rock the sub-45K repair/rearm Mechs. You know us Goldies; no sense of economy.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 18 November 2012 - 09:35 PM.

[Bad Andy]

the trial mechs could be better, some of the setups have pretty obvious holes in them. For example, the trial catapult c-1 has 2 lrm 15's but only 360 ammo for them. It wouldn't be that hard to drop it's engine down to a 200 or 220 and scale the armor back a bit and add another 6 or 7 tons of ammo, then people could actually be useful in it as support.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

I've been keeping weekly statistics of MW:O lately.

This week (12NOV - 23NOV) I:
-Played 44 total games
-used: CN9-D, CN9-AL, AS7-K(F)
-W:L of 11:2
-K:D of 7.02
-Average match time of 9:47
-Average time between matches of 6:31
-total CBills earned, 7,006,814

Broken down:
CN9-D
-Used in 10 matches
-Earnings: 2,131,336
-R&R: 414,150
-Profit: 1,717,186

CN9-AL
-Used in 24 matches
-Earnings: 4,697,305
-R&R: 1,166,970
-Profit: 3,530,335

AS7-D(F)
-Used in 10 matches
-Earnings: 2,374,799
-R&R: 615,506
-Profit: 1,759,293

I've noticed founders and hero mechs actually generate only roughly 1% more CBills weekly than my equivalent non-founders mechs.

[Noodlesoup]

wow i've been taking my founder's mechs for granted. i earn 270k in one match if i win typically..

[lsp]

Buy premium and use teamwork, get those mechs in no time. I have 20million saved for the cataphract.

Edited by lsp, 18 November 2012 - 10:36 PM.

[MrPenguin]

It took me a day with out founders or premium to get a new mech. Now i can average getting 1 mech a day with out founders or premium.

IMO this is way too easy.

Edited by MrPenguin, 18 November 2012 - 10:39 PM.

[Streeter]

MrPenguin, on 18 November 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

It took me a day with out founders or premium to get a new mech. Now i can average getting 1 mech a day with out founders or premium.

IMO this is way too easy.

same I created a free account to see what all the QQing was about. took a few hours to get enough money for a commando, rolling in money from then.

Any easier and I would be really pissed as the founders pack is supposed to limit the grind and the grind really isnt that bad... so what was that $120 I paid for again?

[Scratx]

Lefty Lucy, on 18 November 2012 - 08:24 PM, said:

In WoT you play against other tanks around your tier.

This is not the case with trial mechs in MWO. The fact that the heat system completely destroys the functionality of canon mechs exacerbates the problem.

Exactly, it's not like you'll ever encounter a tier 8 premium medium tank like the Type 59 while driving a tier 4 light tank like the A-20. Impossible! .... Oh, wait, you do. FFFFfffffff Wargaming...

I will concede, though, that for the other tank classes (mediums, heavies, tank destroyers, self-propelled guns), the tier actually means what it appears to mean. You're just screwed if you're in a light tank. Which both proves and disproves the statement. (true in general, but actually false)

Regarding the trial mechs, they may exacerbate the problem but let's be fair ... give a newbie a custom mech with all the bells and whistles and all he'll manage to do is bankrupt himself. He's still going to get gutted every match until he learns to play.

Bad Andy, on 18 November 2012 - 09:39 PM, said:

the trial mechs could be better, some of the setups have pretty obvious holes in them. For example, the trial catapult c-1 has 2 lrm 15's but only 360 ammo for them. It wouldn't be that hard to drop it's engine down to a 200 or 220 and scale the armor back a bit and add another 6 or 7 tons of ammo, then people could actually be useful in it as support.

I don't think dropping the engine that little is going to give that much tonnage and even if it does, it's not worth the cost. (remember, drop below 250 and you have to start adding heatsinks outside the engine anyway)

The C1 is actually a well balanced build, when taking into consideration that it's built entirely with L1 tech. Dropping the LRM15's for LRM10's would give room for 2 more tons of ammo and 2 heatsinks (I ran this mod in my founder's) very cheaply. That's actually over 2 minutes of constant LRM firing, if I recall correctly. It won't get past heavy AMS cover but it's not really meant to. (and AMS cover is down these days anyway)

The thing about the C1 is that you really have to remember you can't take punishment like a heavy mech. You have a medium's armor. Check it out. Same armor overall as a hunchback. So always if at all possible try to have someone around you to take the punches for you. Play fire support for an assault, for example, wait for him to get engaged, fire a few LRMs at the target to soften then move in to help with the lasers (conserves ammunition for later in the fight).

You don't need lots of armor if you're not getting shot, after all.

And be creative with jumpjets. Really.


The moment you get L2 tech on a C1 it gets really interesting, though...

Edited by Scratx, 18 November 2012 - 11:07 PM.

[Scratx]

Vlad Ward, on 18 November 2012 - 09:30 PM, said:

Maybe it's just me, but my Endo-Steel + Double Heat Sink + Artemis + 360-rated engine AS7-D Atlas costs like 30,000 c-bills to repair from an absolute wipeout.

I feel like I'm playing MWO on a completely different planet than some of the people on these forums.

An Atlas. Absolute wipeout.

...

With Artemis anything, costing 30k? You are excluding rearm costs, of course.

Aren't you?

I'm also very skeptical as the armor alone on an Atlas would be around that, if not more. Pretty sure of that.

Soooo... I don't believe you.

45k ? Maybe. I'd believe that. A true wipeout could probably run for that in a cheap build. But 30k is way too low. Again, the armor cost alone would dwarf that. Unless your idea of absolute wipeout is to get just your CT cored.