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Feedback From A New Player - Frustrated, But Wanting The Game To Succeed


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#1 WardenWolf

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:43 AM

I have invited a few friends of mine to play MWO now that it is in open beta, and a couple have taken me up on the offer. One gentleman I was able to get on voice chat with and help him through his first couple of hours of gameplay, but my other friend has just been on his own so far due to his schedule. This is what I suspect many new people just discovering MWO are doing, and so I think his feedback is very indicative of the current state of the game for newcomers.

Here are his own words, sent to me (and reproduced with his permission):

First set of feedback, after one session with several games -

"Must admit, not enjoying the game much.... No incentive. Lose every single match. Fire twice, and overheat shutdown dead. Played about 16 matches not a win."

I talked to him some on the phone about how the progression goes, encouraging him to try running with a group, etc. A couple of days later I got this from him:

"Played a while last night. Went from a -5 to a -2 on a 1-10 scale. Actually won a few games. The matches are pretty hopeless for a new person. The test mech configurations are awful... Overheat 3-4 shots in, non complementary weapons... Was in an Atlas once and got killed in 2 hits, and never fired a shot... never saw the guy. Died several times now without a shot in return. Out of around 30 games I've won about 4. Really? Even the odds would say I should win randomly at minimum 1/3 the time (accounting for the disadvantage I am to the team). To be honest I'm pretty frustrated with it. I do like the lack of prep time required to play though; easy to pick up and put down."

That was from last night, and this morning some more:

"I would say the game play seems well designed and concepts are great. I really want to like it, but just very frustrated with it. The targeting system is awkward... I try to change targets and end up switching multiple times back and forth to get who I want. Part of that is not knowing who I have targeted - why is a delay on their readout needed? How about a bigger visual box that zooms on the new target acquired so I know instantly both when it switches and to whom even if the info is delayed.

"The mech configurations may be historically accurate but not PvP practical... seemingly impossible to get a kill on the test mechs. Does anyone with their own mech choose to play with the stock weapons configuration? I'm sure not. Especially against others with suped-up armor / engines / sinks?

I would like it see it succeed."

And one more set, later this morning:

"No doubt much, maybe 60-75%, of the game play dynamic is skill/practice/gaming equipment. The part left over for in game equipment (mechs) is very important though not completely overwhelming. For a fresh player with no experience, it's hard to get any at all when I die 8 seconds into a fight because the 25% usefulness of my free mech (my "ride") doesn't stand much chance 1v1 to the suked-up ones. In other words its tough to improve because I don't have the opportunity to level the playing field with in-game experience or (or and in part due to) mech comparison."

This is coming from a veteran gamer, who played MW2 and 3 back in the day and has played many other games in the interim. He is very smart, and seeing how he has been frustrated by trying to learn and play on his own is quite interesting - and is makes me sad as well, since I wonder now how many great people are being turned away from the game as it stands now?

Here is what I think needs to be done, based on the above info:

- A real tutorial, in the game itself, to teach controls (both movement and combat)

- A way to get out of the trial mechs faster, or perhaps to customize them in a limited way (though it seems like that would be harder / more confusing)

- While stuck in a trial mech, as a new player, a way to avoid being matched against veteran players and groups

- A better way to get into groups, even just with other random folks, in order to work together more effectively.

The first seems easy enough, especially if there are no opponents - just one of the existing maps with a pre-programmed set of instructions. Not sure if this will lag the server down, though, having bunches going alongside normal matches?

The second is also pretty easy: have an option once a player has gone a few rounds in to pick a starting 'real' mech (maybe a limited number of choices?) or a C-bill boost of enough to get a decent mech. Better yet, when Community warfare comes around I think that this could be done as a 'signing bonus' when joining a house military or merc company!

The third also seems easy, in theory, though the difficulties that have been had with matchmaking so far make me wonder if there is more to this than meets the eye. I would *think* that just having people in trial mechs with less than X number of games played only be matched against other trial mechs and players with less that Y (where Y is some number larger than X) number of games played would do the trick - let them go up against other fairly new players, and no groups at all (unless they themselves join a group).

The last is the only area I am aware that is actually being worked on actively, with the ongoing C3 integration, so hopefully that takes care of that eventually :huh:

Hopefully this info gets to the Devs, and can help as they continue to craft this game and the new user experience! Thanks for listening!

Edited by WardenWolf, 19 November 2012 - 02:40 PM.


#2 Taryys

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:51 AM

All valid points. The new player experience is pretty rough!!


Please sign here:

How To Reduce The Grind And Create A Great New User Experience


You may also like the following:

[Guide] Playing with Friends, Groups, and Teams

Integrated C3 for PUGs is coming. We do not know when yet.

#3 Aegis Kleais

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:51 AM

We all want the game to be further down the line in terms of development from where it is. There's definitely truth in saying that the game might be considered "premature", but if it was a meat, consider it 'precooked bacon'. It's OK to eat cold or hot, but it's just not the same as something that was developed from raw to thoroughly cooked.

Bad food analogy aside, if you search through the forums you'll see many persons with the same concerns. The game in its current state is not very welcoming to people completely new to the series (and only moderately less so to those who are). There's a solid foundation to the game, but it isn't feature-rich yet. And that will just take time for us, so in the meantime, yes, battles can seem very shallow.

But you're leading him in the right direction; get with a group, work together, lose the 'me' mentality and develop a 'we' mentality. This game is unique in that it rewards teamwork and severely punishes lone wolfing. Ensure that he doesn't equate the game's logic and warfare to that of a FPS. The mechanics of using a tank, managing heat and then employing actual battlefield tactical maneuvering is worlds different, but he sounds like he's getting receptive to the idea.

It's frustrating in any game to lose as much as he has been, but it's one of those things you have to power through; we were all there at one point, and a more complete game aside, we just can't be sure of when those things will come. So keep practicing the basics and keep your ear to the ground on future features/changes.

#4 Axeman1

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:55 AM

I would be surprised if this game actually succeeded. I don't see how PGI will be making anymore money than they already have.

-New players don't want to waste money on a game they are at such a disadvantage at already
-Founders get free premium time and have more than enough c-bills for anything they could possibly need in the future
-No incentive / reason for the inbetween of these two extremes to buy MC. (Especially at the cost to buy a mech with mc, being hilariously high).

Which leaves hero mechs / custom mech skins ala LoL skins, except this game doesn't have near the player base of LoL.

Edited by Axeman1, 19 November 2012 - 11:56 AM.


#5 Taryys

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:56 AM

Please see and sign my post:

How To Reduce The Grind And Create A Great New User Experience

#6 G4M3R

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:58 AM

New player is tough but not impossible. Little incentive if your buds don't play with you at the same time.

#7 WardenWolf

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:01 PM

View PostTaryys, on 19 November 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:


I've signed, as I agree with most of your suggestions - but I do think getting folks out of the trial mechs faster would be best. I really like the idea of a 'signing bonus' for joining a part of the meta game, when that is around, but until then something like this would be easy:

- Once the tutorial has been completed (so yes, this needs that added to the game - but it *needs* to be in ASAP anyways)
- And a player has tried 2 matches in each class of mech

Then the player could select one of the trial mechs 'for free'... and they'd have the few C-bills they already earned to put toward customizing it. Like the founders mechs, this could be unsellable (to avoid everyone just getting the biggest mech and selling it for cbills) and maybe even have it not count toward their 4 mech slots... but I could go either way there.

#8 Aegis Kleais

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:05 PM

View PostAxeman1, on 19 November 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

I would be surprised if this game actually succeeded. I don't see how PGI will be making anymore money than they already have.

-New players don't want to waste money on a game they are at such a disadvantage at already
-Founders get free premium time and have more than enough c-bills for anything they could possibly need in the future
-No incentive / reason for the inbetween of these two extremes to buy MC. (Especially at the cost to buy a mech with mc, being hilariously high).

Which leaves hero mechs / custom mech skins ala LoL skins, except this game doesn't have near the player base of LoL.

A lot of this is player misconception; even knowing the download an 'open beta' game, they expect it to be feature rich. This was discussed at length when PGI informed closed beta players of the 'going open' date. We felt that it was both a bit early and that the vast majority of new gamers would not understand the concept of a beta.

As for Founders getting free premium time, I don't see the logic in pointing this out. Everyone had the opportunity to be a Founder, and if a player missed out on it, it's nothing more than their fault. We paid actual money, and getting premium time was part of the deal. It doesn't hurt non-Founder players or those who choose to be F2P because of this. If players don't like the high prices, a lack of sale will motivate PGI to lower them. Until then, you can't help but get the sense that these players almost have a sense of 'entitlement', wanting something without paying for the convenience of getting it faster, or even simply earning it through effort. They just want it handed over. That kind of business model would only hurt PGI.

#9 EvilCow

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:10 PM

The game needs a separate matchmaking queue for new accounts where groups are not allowed, players should have the option to opt-in to the experts queue (and not be able to go back).

Also a "real" free mech would help, something like a hunchback, and some CBs to attempt customizations. This would improve the first impression of the game.

#10 Taryys

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:13 PM

Match making fix coming tomorrow, hopefully.

I am not keen on a free mech.
Please see my large post post as to why:

How To Reduce The Grind And Create A Great New User Experience

#11 Axeman1

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:13 PM

It went back to my first statement regarding new players being at a disadvantage starting with nothing and vs'ing against people who've farmed millions of c-bills, which is more aimed at the fact that there will be no more wipes between now and "Launch" or "Live". Each day that passes that any player is playing compared to a new one has a huge c-bill advantage, free premium just exacerbates this.

#12 Taryys

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:15 PM

Agreed. Match maker fix coming tomorrow.


View PostAxeman1, on 19 November 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

It went back to my first statement regarding new players being at a disadvantage starting with nothing and vs'ing against people who've farmed millions of c-bills, which is more aimed at the fact that there will be no more wipes between now and "Launch" or "Live". Each day that passes that any player is playing compared to a new one has a huge c-bill advantage, free premium just exacerbates this.


#13 Hekalite

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:20 PM

If he is overheating that often, he probably hasn't set up weapon groups or learned how to use chain fire. Also, you might want to pass on the (seemingly obvious) advice I gave a friend who started recently: don't shoot when your weapons are ready, shoot when you think they will hit.

#14 Sprouticus

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:20 PM

View PostEvilCow, on 19 November 2012 - 12:10 PM, said:

The game needs a separate matchmaking queue for new accounts where groups are not allowed, players should have the option to opt-in to the experts queue (and not be able to go back).

Also a "real" free mech would help, something like a hunchback, and some CBs to attempt customizations. This would improve the first impression of the game.



This, far more than 3rd person (and a seperate queue for those users) will improve new player experience.

One additional note, making the Atlas-K (with an XL Engine) a trial mech was about the worst idea they could have had. That needs to be changed ASAP. Im expecting it tomorrow.

#15 Teralitha

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:23 PM

Matchmaker. Trial mechs vs trial mechs only. Would help alot for new player experience. Once the matchmaker is able to do this it will be much better.

#16 FactorlanP

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:25 PM

Trial mechs should be nothing more then a way to get a look at a chassis before you pony up the C-Bills to buy it.

New players should be given a single medium chassis, maybe a Hunchback (same model as the Founder version) or possibly one of the Centurions.

Allow them to start earning XP from match 1. Allow them a sense of accomplishment from day 1.

The current new player experience will drive them away for certain.

#17 LauLiao

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:25 PM

View PostAxeman1, on 19 November 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

I would be surprised if this game actually succeeded. I don't see how PGI will be making anymore money than they already have.

-New players don't want to waste money on a game they are at such a disadvantage at already


Actually I was a new player as of about 3 days ago. I quickly realized what a disadvantage the trial mechs were and went ahead and dropped $10 just so I could buy something reasonable and be competative. I quickly noticed what a HUGE improvement the real mechs were so I went ahead and dropped some more cash so I could play with a couple of models and configurations. So your assertation that the paradigm is flawed is flawed.

#18 Taryys

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:27 PM

Trial vs trial is not an answer simply because a vet could jump in one an trash newbs.
Stat based match making is the way that way new and sucky pilots get put together and vet pilots get put together.


View PostTeralitha, on 19 November 2012 - 12:23 PM, said:

Matchmaker. Trial mechs vs trial mechs only. Would help alot for new player experience. Once the matchmaker is able to do this it will be much better.


Giving them a mech to start with is not a good idea.

See the link to my thread above:



View PostFactorlanP, on 19 November 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:

Trial mechs should be nothing more then a way to get a look at a chassis before you pony up the C-Bills to buy it.

New players should be given a single medium chassis, maybe a Hunchback (same model as the Founder version) or possibly one of the Centurions.

Allow them to start earning XP from match 1. Allow them a sense of accomplishment from day 1.

The current new player experience will drive them away for certain.






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