57 replies to this topic

[FACEman Peck]

Jeremiah Mint, on 30 April 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

Hell yeah, its BSG, one of the best shows ever.

[LaorDeLove]

Clan Wolverine would come out of hiding. They would strike and take back Terra. They would continue to push the clans out of IS. They would recruit IS freeborn mechwarriors to pilot their 2nd line mechs. They would then push the plans back to Strana Mechty. Everyone will ask how on earth did they manage that. Clan Wolverine is basically combining Feds and the Commonwealth together without the fighting between children. Besides they the Khan will be preparing to meet the other clans in battle. They will be producing mechs and tech as quickly as possible. They will get their revenge. LOL That is my theory.

[Donner]

They would go to Terra and here is what would happen.

"Well, uh, uh, um, well, what now?"

"I don't f**king know!"

"Get back on the jumpship and head back to the inner sphere!"

[shortpainter]

To what would happen when the clans reach Terra, watch this video

[Haakon Valravn]

A hypothetical battle of Terra initiated by the Clans would be an interesting scenario. It would also be the turning point in the invasion: Every invading Clan and every Great House pouring as many of their resources into the fight as possible. Ultimately, both sides would be completely decimated by the fighting. An uneasy stalemate would ensue, especially if the homeworld Clans started to nibble at the scraps of the invading Clans compounded by local resistance movements sabotaging critical infrastructure, while most of the invading Clans' Khans would either be dead or captured.

It would have been Stalingrad plus Kursk on steroids. But I'm pretty sure the Clans would be the Germans and, like the Germans, they would lose. From that point forward, the Clans would be put on the backfoot, but it's likely that the invading Clans would simply be absorbed by the home Clans, who could then launch foolish and ill-advised offensives (as they are unfamiliar with their Inner Sphere foe) which would be costly, but successful. Ultimately, the fighting would boil down to a slogging match, as the forces of both parties become utterly exhausted by the fighting, Clan victory is virtually impossible, but the people of the Inner Sphere would be tired of war. Ultimately, the conflict would end in an armistice that would only last long enough for the Inner Sphere to rebuild their forces, while the Clans attempt to consolidate their victories. From there, things go fuzzy. Even more home Clans would probably push their way into the Inner Sphere at the cost of their Clan brethren. A ComStar Jihad is probable. And the small cross-border raids between Clan and Spheroid would be much more dangerous, as each one could trigger a full-scale resumption of hostilities, desired by neither side.

[3Xtr3m3]

I like the Soviet/German WWII reference.
Perhaps, before the war made it to Terra, the SI would have started a "Scorched Earth" policy.
I also think that the IS forces would have eventually dropped their reluctance to use Nukes.

Maybe, Victor Steiner-Davions consolidation of the IS forces into a reborn Star-League would have led to a behind the front lines counter-strike similiar to MacArthurs turning the tide in Korea during the 50's, instead of Operation Bulldog/Serpent.

Interesting options.

[Hawkeye 72]

Haakon Valravn, on 30 April 2012 - 02:38 PM, said:

A hypothetical battle of Terra initiated by the Clans would be an interesting scenario. It would also be the turning point in the invasion: Every invading Clan and every Great House pouring as many of their resources into the fight as possible. Ultimately, both sides would be completely decimated by the fighting. An uneasy stalemate would ensue, especially if the homeworld Clans started to nibble at the scraps of the invading Clans compounded by local resistance movements sabotaging critical infrastructure, while most of the invading Clans' Khans would either be dead or captured.

It would have been Stalingrad plus Kursk on steroids. But I'm pretty sure the Clans would be the Germans and, like the Germans, they would lose. From that point forward, the Clans would be put on the backfoot, but it's likely that the invading Clans would simply be absorbed by the home Clans, who could then launch foolish and ill-advised offensives (as they are unfamiliar with their Inner Sphere foe) which would be costly, but successful. Ultimately, the fighting would boil down to a slogging match, as the forces of both parties become utterly exhausted by the fighting, Clan victory is virtually impossible, but the people of the Inner Sphere would be tired of war. Ultimately, the conflict would end in an armistice that would only last long enough for the Inner Sphere to rebuild their forces, while the Clans attempt to consolidate their victories. From there, things go fuzzy. Even more home Clans would probably push their way into the Inner Sphere at the cost of their Clan brethren. A ComStar Jihad is probable. And the small cross-border raids between Clan and Spheroid would be much more dangerous, as each one could trigger a full-scale resumption of hostilities, desired by neither side.

I still feel the Clans would have had the edge in such a battle, but how much is impossible to tell. No doubt they would have required reinforcements from the homeworld Clans to garrison outer rim planets so they could devote more troops to the action on Terra. As for the Comstar Jihad, that would never exist. Terra was Comstar's headquarters until Blakist separatists took it over. Given the battle that would have ensued, most of the resources for the Jihad would have been lost in the conflict. I find it far more likely that regardless of the victor, both the Clans and the Great Houses are decimated after such a conflict, and could give rise to a Fifth Succession War that reaches the levels of desperation seen in the Second Succession War.

[Haakon Valravn]

ComStar's resources are spread through out the Inner Sphere and beyond. The battle for Terra and Sol would be terrible and would take a great toll on ComStar, but remember that most Blakist resources were located in the Free World's League. Given the enemy uniting the Inner Sphere, there is no reason ComStar would not take the religious zealotry of certain of its members, particularly in an IS where the extremists never broke from the secular organization, combined with the rage of those dispossessed and displaced by the fighting to call for jihad. Indeed, the term is particularly apt: You have a smaller, elite force on a Crusade to 're-take' the Holy Land (Terra and the Inner Sphere) from barbarians, while the less organized, less well-equiped, but much more numerous force fights to re-take their homes in a Jihad.

[Hawkeye 72]

Haakon Valravn, on 30 April 2012 - 08:55 PM, said:

ComStar's resources are spread through out the Inner Sphere and beyond. The battle for Terra and Sol would be terrible and would take a great toll on ComStar, but remember that most Blakist resources were located in the Free World's League. Given the enemy uniting the Inner Sphere, there is no reason ComStar would not take the religious zealotry of certain of its members, particularly in an IS where the extremists never broke from the secular organization, combined with the rage of those dispossessed and displaced by the fighting to call for jihad. Indeed, the term is particularly apt: You have a smaller, elite force on a Crusade to 're-take' the Holy Land (Terra and the Inner Sphere) from barbarians, while the less organized, less well-equiped, but much more numerous force fights to re-take their homes in a Jihad.

You forget that the Word of Blake was not formed until AFTER Tukayyid. If such a battle for Terra were to occur, no doubt large portions of Comstar resources would be called to defend it. Comstar made it clear they wanted to defend Terra once it became known that it was the Clans primary objective. Blakist's only received help from the FWL AFTER their split from Comstar.

In fact if there is no Tukayyid, Anastasius Focht might not learn of Myndo Waterly's plan to bring the Inner Sphere under the rule of Comstar and therefore never assasinates him. Waterly would see Terra as the key to claiming dominion over the Houses and therefore most likely would have committed the bulk of his forces to defense.

Terra would become a battle for the soul of the Inner Sphere between the Clans and Comstar.

****Does anyone else feel like this would have been a much more awesome scenario than the Jihad?? Suppose after the FedCom Civil war ends, a new invasion force of Homeworld Clans makes it's own invasion corridors outside of the Falcon and Ghost Bear occupation zones. It resumes the race for Terra among all the Clans. Comstar and the Blakists, who HAD been planning a Jihad, see this as an opportunity to weaken the Houses for their rule. While Steel Vipers, Coyotes, Hell's Horses, Wolves, Falcons, and a few other Clans start tearing apart the Lyran Commonwealth and Draconis Combine, Comstar and Blakists reunite and reclaim Terra and its surrounding planets to brace for the coming assault. The Clans ferocity and desperation to get to Terra first leads to hoards of infighting and ultimately sparks hostilities that lead to the War of Reaving later on. After two of the Great Houses are devastated while the others suffer major losses, the Clans arrive at Terra. Comstar/Blake begin waging an epic defense against the Clan onslaught, both sides knowing the victor can claim rule over the Inner Sphere. The FWL, Cappellan Confederation, and Federated Suns send the remainder of their forces to Terra in order prevent either of the fanatical factions from winning the engagement. Boom, there's your new history****

[Aethon]

"The Clans conquer Terra... then what?"

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"Mr. IlKhan, what's the first thing you're gonna do, now that you've conquered Terra?"

"I am going to take my sibkin to Walt Disney World!"

"But...that was destroyed during the First Succession War..."

"You savashri freebirths! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! *** **** you all to hell!"

Thus began the annihilation of the Inner Sphere.

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But, really, we know this would never come to pass. Even if the Clans threw everything they had at a drive straight toward Terra, they would have the Fedcom and Combine units squeezing them on the sides, and Marik units would be pushing back from the other side. Considering Thomas Marik's connections to ComStar, I should like to think he would never stand to see Terra conquered by the Clans, at any cost.

And then you have the vast reserves of Star League mechs, vehicles, battle armor, etc. that ComStar has stockpiled in their underground facilities on Terra (which, btw, is the most heavily industrialized planet in the Inner Sphere). I have never seen any exact figures on the numbers, but I have little doubt they are very impressive.

Last but not least, even after their initial experience fighting against the IS forces, the Clans still did not understand how to fight protracted battles at this point. They were still learning the art of 'war to the knife', but the IS forces had been perfecting this art for the past few hundred years; it was second-nature to them.

[Charles Martel]

Well an invasion by the homeworld clans is pretty much going to happen. I just feel very sorry for whoever gets stuck with the Combine and Rasalhague Dominion as their invasion corridor. They're going to be like a piece of soft metal between a hammer and an anvil.

[Peiper]

Alright, enough of the: This side would do this or that. Let's focus on the Clan point of view. Ignoring warnings from Clan Wolf via Wolf's Dragoons reports that the Inner Sphere was NOT a bunch of cavemen, that they were redeveloping star league era tech, and though split, the houses had realatively steady borders. The Clan ASSUMED many things based on what they saw of the inner sphere when they left, and what happened when they arrived and settled in the systems around Strana Mechty. When they arrived at what became their homeworld - this righteous legion of warriors leaving the inner sphere to keep themselves from being used to destroy everything, they realized they had way too many warriors and not enough farmers, butchers, mechanics, teachers, whatever. The Kerenskys disarmed most of the warriors and gave them new jobs so the society could function. What happens? The kill each other, because bored warriors don't know what else to do, and they brought their inner sphere prejudices with them. So Lyrans fought Kuritans and so on. Nicholas Kerensky (Alexander's kid) has a vision, grabs a loyal cohort of warriors, and kicks everyone's butts and tells them to get back to work. He divides them into clans, where he mixes and matches people so all the ethnicities are mixed up and rendered irrelevant, this includes taking away all the warrior's last names. The only last names that exist are those names of the people who fought with Kerensky to reunite his people, and he says 25 people (he likes multiples of 5) can EARN each last name (bloodnames) if they can prove their heritage back to these warriors. This is typically proven easily as warriors are born via iron wombs of already mated bloodnamed genestock.

Anyway, they build this new utopia, based on a caste system with warriors on top. They are the few, the elite, and the whole society is geared toward 1. supporting the warriors. 2. learning and building new technologies/sciences and 3. letting society prosper through trade. In a strange honor system that includes bidding, commanders bid the lowest number of troops against other commanders to accomplish their objective - essentially garaunteeing the least amount of total damage done. The idea is to preserve life by not having everyone go into all-out war to solve their differences. Trials replace warfare, where if one clan has a beef with, or wants something from another, they challenge the other and then they have what is sort of the equivelant of a jousting contest of their best mechwarriors against each other to prove right through might. There is an elected clan counsel. The Ilkhan (I L K han) is the elected leader in times when the clans must unite.

BTW, old people, and old warriors are mostly thrown to the wind. 40 is old to pilot a battlemech. 45 is ancient. Even though they have great health, they consider 20-35, 15 years, a typical amount of time that a person is in their prime and useful to the war machine. (Other castes live to old age.) So, 300 years pass. That's 20 generations of forgetting the past and living in their utopian NOW. All they know of the inner sphere is pre-exodus stuff. (The clans, then the Star League Defense Force, left the inner sphere = the Exodus)

They assume that the inner sphere is on the edge of total self-destruction. The only contact they have is spying on periphery planets, which are basically the wild-west, lawless frontier of known space.

The Clans are politically divided by the 31st Century. Clan Wolf gets smart and sends spies in (Wolf's Dragoons) to check out what the inner sphere is up to by fighting for all the houses as a merc unit. But the Dragoons are kind of left hanging out to dry and their reports are mostly disregarded as they contradict what the home-bound clanners see in the periphery. The truth is, the Inner Sphere is raising to the hieghts of technology to match the once Utopian Star League (One-World/Unite Nations Order), and though no one can agree on which noble house has legitimate claim to the thrown of the Star League, the 5 great houses (plus the Swedes in the Galactic North) are mostly not killing each other. Two of the larger houses have even formed one big house. (Steiner and Davion married into each other's families and created the Federated Commonwealth out of their two states.)

The Crusader political faction in the Clans said, yeah, right. We are the rightful inheritors of Terra/Earth and the throne. Our society is great, and the inner sphere just doesn't realize it yet, but they will when we go bring on the pain, and forcefully convert them to our way of life. The Wardens saw it as their job to safegaurd humanity and knowledge in general, and if the Inner Sphere WASN'T going to implode, they should stay out of there. The Crusaders (dumb kids - remember, 35 is old/used up and 20 is when mechwarriors are at their peak, and they know better - yeah right....) think they know better and outnumber/outvote the rest of the clans, choose and IlKhan (war-chief) and go off to prove it.

The clan that reaches Earth and takes it over first, wins the race, and the ilKhan is forever on supposed to be from that clan. Then they would work to enlighten the inner sphere by bringing them all their cool technology, culture, and restore the star league in the clan's image.

SO.... What happens if the Clans take Terra?

They put their plan into effect. However, the clans are full of dimwitted young people (20 year old neo-fascists) who think they know how 200 planets who have previously lived under a stereotypical Japanese culture (Kurita) should live. With or without infighting, the clans could not OCCUPY the whole inner sphere. They would be spread thin, even if they did knock out all the House capitols, and the majority of the people would rise up, actively or passively, to make life difficult for the clanners. Not only that, but once the clanners get out of their battlemechs and see that there are a variety of equally decent ways to live, they will question themselves.

So, yeah, it will be a civil war in the inner sphere and in the end, everyone would lose. The Houses and the Clans probably would set back human progress by a hundred years or more, and in the end, people would adopt their old or new culture and form bigger governments until each new empire hit it's max size and the inner sphere would be reborn.

The Wardens, btw, typically were kinder to the inner sphere people they conquered. The Wardens saw themselves as protectors, and the Crusaders were conquerers. True, they were more alike than different, but their attitudes toward some subjects differed. (Like the Republicrats and Demuplicans. When placed on the world stage of poltical platforms, they are far more similar than they ever would admit to, but they are all Americans who basically value the same things - just differ on how things should be set up and worked out. Too bad Americans are idiots. - and yes, I am proud to be an American! Wave the Stars and Bars, I mean stars and stripes forever! Blah, blah, blah...)

But, back to the OP. To summarize: This has all happened before, and it will all happen again until we all agree that the force is with us, and we should live long and prosper.

(Things to support my arguments.)

1. Smoke Jaguar, most aggressive and short sighted clan - who I love most - was ripped to shreds by a reborn Star League Defense Force because they were considered the scariest clan. (F*** YEAH! Take that, stravag inbreeds...)
2. Clan Wolf made friends with the people they conquered. Rasalhague fell without a shot being fired. Why? Because both the Vikings and the Wolves valued each other's lives over politics.
3. Jade Falcon. the tradition keepers, and Crusaders had a tough time. They are smart, but are bogged down by their ignorance of how to deal with people not of their uber-reich. They do kick butt when they need to, but have terrible people skills and so they trip up on domestic issues.
4. Clan Ghost Bear, the other Wardens of the original four clans, realized they didn't know what they were doing and let the Rasalhague basically self-govern, with them holding the power over the military. The Vikings serve under a pretty free thinking self-government, and the Ghost Bear have become rather passive. They pushed to their REASONABLE limit and consolodated.
5. Nova Cat, a latecomer in the invasion, actually MERGES with the Draconis Combine, as a minority group, and they join the Star League Defense Force when the Star League is reborn. They are Wardens, and they stick to their POV that they are there to protect the people, not to conquer.
6. Living in the Inner Sphere was too much for Clan Wolf and they got into a heated family argument, with the Jade Falcons butted into, saying that Clan Wolf messed up the invasion by being too forward thinking, practical, and benevolent. So, they fought and Clan Wolf is now two Clans (3067ish).

In a hundred years, the clans would be looked at as a large group of violent immigrants who eventually realized everyone was really human, trueborn or not, and remain as a bunch of really proud ethnic minorities.

_____________________________________

I do agree that it would be interesting if MWO was bound by canon only up to the beginning of play, and we could play out the clan wars, and succession wars, as player-controlled factions, but with balances thrown in (mostly supply lines, planetary complicity/rebellion levels, etc.) and see how the Inner Sphere would look after 5 years of the clan invasion. If the further you went from your power base, the harder it was to field and mantain troops, the map would be constanty changing, but never totally dominated by one faction, even if they outnumbered others player-wise.

But that's a topic for another post. (RE: project Genesis which is an example of a partially complete system like the one I'm talking about.)

Okay, steps down, puts soap box back in the pickup, and heads on to the next town.....

[Seth]

This is a fun "what if" scenario, but I don't see it ending well for the clans. Assuming we are starting from a point in time directly before Tukayyid, we have to consider the following factors working against the Clans.

*The Clans are still led by ilKhan Ulric Kerensky. This was obviously a bad manuver for the crusader faction since Ulric was more than cunning enough to use the Clans factionalism against them while Clan Wolf made the greatest in roads into the Inner Sphere. When has it ever been a good idea to appoint a person who doesn't want war as a war leader?

*Clan Smoke Jaguar in particular was already having problems maintaining their momentum. This is a result of their supply and manufacturing shortages that also prompted their protomech program. The inclusion of the Nova Cats to their corridor help to allieve the problem, but their steadfast refusal to use freeborn warriors even in a garrison setting, heavy hand in dealing with conquered I.S. people meant, along with their small garrison forces meant they had to reconquer their worlds quite often. This problem, along with their manufacturing issues, means they probably would not have been able to participate in a battle for Terra.

*The Clan's supply lines were already stretched at this point, most of the invading Clans, notably Clans Wolf and Smoke Jaguar, had not taken advantage of the industrial capacity of their conquered worlds and instead were relying on supplies being shipped to them from the homeworlds. This problem would have only been exacerbated as the drove deeper into the Inner Sphere.

*The Federated Commonwealth, and frankly all of the Successor States, dwarfed the Clans when it came to production, men, and material. At the beginning of WWII, Germany did not want the U.S. brought into the war because of our potential industrial capacity. When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, their Admiral stated they had awakened the sleeping dragon. We went on to out produce every other country in that war and could have won through attrition alone. The Clans facing a united Inner Sphere front would have been ground down. This is made evident through how much the Inner Sphere was able to mobilize in the one year the Clans halted their invasion to elect a new ilKhan.

*The best of the Clans faced Comstar and lost on the back water world of Tukayyid. Imagine a single Clan being the first to reach Terra with all of its defenses and having to face the Comguards there instead. Even the Clans naval assets wouldn't have been an advantage there considering the hidden fleets of ships used by Comstar and later the WoB.

*Speaking of the Word of Blake, all of the assets they had had mustered to fight Comstar and the rest of the Inner Sphere was still largely part of Comstar at this point. The Manei Domini were a hidden asset within Comstar that even the primus was not aware of, but push come to shove, I believe they would have fought a Jihad style war against the Clans if it became evident the Clans were going to reestablish the Star League instead of them. Granted, they probably would have nuked and poisoned every Clan held world along with their former I.S. poulations if they had to, but the Clans would have been at a big disadvantage in the face of the onslaught the Inner Sphere faced in the 3070's.

[LaorDeLove]

I am changing me original answer to this: Clanners take Terra... Universe goes.... BOOM! End of story.

[M4NTiC0R3X]

"To what would happen when the clans reach Terra, watch this video" <- posted above

@Shortpainter: That is about the best explanation possible!

[Evgeny Bear]

I think its more possible that Comstar starts to collapse if the Clans are able to destroy even the Inner circle, and Im sure they have the power to do so. And imagine... with comstar collapse the Inner sphere would be blind for a short while, and then the houses would try to use the moment to capture the HPGs, with many of them destroyed by the Blakist themselves (Im sure). after that they gained a crippled HPG network and fighting against themselves for the remaining hubs and best pieces of that network, because for the Inner Sphere information means their survival.
All clans have their own HPG's rendering them indipendent from any interfierence of comstar or their network.

But Im not sure about the Jihad, if comstar is broken and conquered by the houses, Im sure the secret Word of Blake wouldn't rise, they would fear to loose too much of their own tech or if they do soo, even more cripple the houses.

[Coralld]

A lot of people make interesting points, how ever, I would have to agree with those that say the Clans would lose and here is why. Say the battle of Tukayyid never took place. That means the Com Guard are still at full strength, which ever Clan reaches Terra would have to deal with the Com Guard. Now lets look back upon known history here. On Tukayyid, ALL the Clans showed up, ALL of their best Warriors, it was for the most part the full might of ALL the Clans. And how did that turn out for the Clans? Only two Clans won, just two, the Wolves and Bears. Every one else got steamrolled. So even if you had the might of ALL the Clans on Terra they would still have to contend with the ComGuard, and on top of that the five Great Houses because they are sure as hell not going to site on the side line. Now remember, only two Clans won against the ComGuard. What do you think the chances of the Clans wining against ComStar AND the combined forces of the Great Houses now that they are thrown into the mix? From my perspective the Clans would be lucky they survived for more then 30 sec. No one Clan can defeat the ComGuard, that's just fact. To say other wise is wishful thinking if you ask me.

Now, hypothetically say the Clans some how managed to stay alive through the combined might of the Great Houses and ComStar. The Clans would be hard pressed to replenish their losses fast enough while the full industrial machine of the entire IS is dumping men, women, Mechs, and all manner of war materials on Terra. The Clans will not last. Its simply impossible for them to take Terra.

[LaorDeLove]

The clans didn't win Tukayyid because of two things. First they bid away their forces because they didn't respect the IS pilots/ComGuard pilots. Second is they were not prepared for a long term battle. They fight like it is a duel between gentlemen, so they were unprepared for the guerrilla tactics use by Focht and the ComGuards. Focht knew how the clans thought and used it to his full advantage. If the clans were being ran by a IS general, who commanded all the clans armies like Focht, the clans would have rolled right on through. Now on to the theory part of the argument. Now if the clans still run by one IS general as the ilkhan, would move straight towards Terra. Some armies should move to attack deeper on the Combine and the Commonwealth. This should give the Terran army a chance to stand against ComGuards, Feds, League and Confederation. IS should bunker down and start factories up and start using Freeborn pilots as garrison units. Basically Turtle on Terra until Commonwealth and the Combine fall to the clans. It could be done with the right military mindset.

[Vincent Vascaul]

Not to contradict a fellow member of the Sea Wolves but that argument makes no sense. The clans lost on Tukayyid because of how they fought, not superior forces (also the Jade Falcons got a draw, they were not "steamrolled"). The ilKhan wanted the clans to loose so he did not advise them to adjust tactics, while he had his Wolves on the other hand decimate Anastasius Fochts Comstar forces and even tells him afterwards, that his is how it could have went (basicly). Not to mention that there were another 10 or so clans waiting in the wings. The Comguard are not that elite it was only because of Anastasius Fochts tactics that they were able to stand up against the clans. Also it was no where near the full might of the clans, They bid down to what they had, if the clans had ever released their "Full might" they would have absolutely torn then whole IS into shreds. Also what industrial machine? The IS can barely manufacture Gauss rifles until half way through the clan invasion. Where as the clans have their entire infrastructure in tact and completely unthreatened, All they would need to do is call in a couple more clans to secure the lines and they could easily take hold and assimilate. I mean seriously half of the populated planets are ruled by corrupt/dictorial regimes, the citezens aren't going to be throwing themselves at Omni-mechs as long as they can go about their lives.

Edited by Vincent Vascaul, 01 May 2012 - 02:03 PM.

[Hawkeye 72]

Coralld, on 01 May 2012 - 01:18 PM, said:

A lot of people make interesting points, how ever, I would have to agree with those that say the Clans would lose and here is why. Say the battle of Tukayyid never took place. That means the Com Guard are still at full strength, which ever Clan reaches Terra would have to deal with the Com Guard. Now lets look back upon known history here. On Tukayyid, ALL the Clans showed up, ALL of their best Warriors, it was for the most part the full might of ALL the Clans. And how did that turn out for the Clans? Only two Clans won, just two, the Wolves and Bears. Every one else got steamrolled. So even if you had the might of ALL the Clans on Terra they would still have to contend with the ComGuard, and on top of that the five Great Houses because they are sure as hell not going to site on the side line. Now remember, only two Clans won against the ComGuard. What do you think the chances of the Clans wining against ComStar AND the combined forces of the Great Houses now that they are thrown into the mix? From my perspective the Clans would be lucky they survived for more then 30 sec. No one Clan can defeat the ComGuard, that's just fact. To say other wise is wishful thinking if you ask me.

Fact? The Clans lost one fight against Comstar, and lost is a debatable term. Clan Wolf took both its objectives, Ghost Bear took one, and the Falcons managed a draw.

You ignore the fact that the Clans underbid and Comstar still sufferred 40% FATALITY RATE among its warriors.

I don't get why everyone on here keeps referring to the Clans as mindless barbarians. They managed to avoid the same fate as the Inner Sphere and developed unparalleled technology. It shows a clear bias towards the Clans rather than thinking logically about the scenario.

In fact the only three planets I can remember directly of the Clans actually losing an engagement are Wolcott, Luthien, and Tukayyid. Three planets. That is number of planets successfully defended by the Inner Sphere during the invasion. Three. There might be a few more, but it still is a marginal number compared to the hundred or so worlds that fell to the Clans.

Tukayyid was fought because Comstar " in no way wanted to see Terra, humanities birthplace, torn asunder by an enormous battle the likes of which the planet had not seen since 2777" Comstar knew the Great Houses were helpless against the Clans, and was actually feeding them intel to further along the invasion. They KNEW that unless they intervened, the Clans would reach their objective. They also knew that unless they brokered the proxy fight, Terra would have been a bloodbath. Comstar gambled at Tukayyid and threw in all its chips.

Tukayyid was fought with 144 regiments for Comstar and 25 Galaxies for the Clans. A regiment carries between 108 to 180 mechs. A Galaxy contains approximately 3-5 Clusters, or 250 mechs.

Comstar fought with approximately 21600 mechs, while the Clans engaged with only 6250. Remember that 40% fatality rate? Given the losses Comstar suffered, it is clear the Clans were superior warriors. Comstar just won by taking advantage of their tactical weaknesses, noncooperation, and style of warfare. Clan Wolf won because they knew how to actually fight a war. Yes, the Clans hubris would have deterred the success of their campaign. But to ignore their clear combat superiority is rather ignorant.

LaorDeLove is correct. If the Clans were run by an Inner Sphere general, they would have steamrolled Comstar into oblivion. Clan Wolf realized this, and hence saw success. It is not unlikely that had the invasion continued, Clan Wolf would have been the first to reach Terra, and therefore the best equipped to combat its defenders.

I won't say that either Comstar or the Clans would have won such an engagement, because it is hard to determine how many Clans would have been involved, the tactics that would have been used, and the fanaticism that would have driven the Clans to capture their holy grail. If there is no Tukayyid, it is hard to not see the Clans reaching their main objective.

I can't even imagine the success of the invasion had more than 4 of the 18 remaining Clans participated. 4 Clans took on the Inner Sphere and kicked it's rear. Imagine if you threw in another 12???

Edited by Hawkeye 72, 01 May 2012 - 02:39 PM.