21 replies to this topic

[BlackSquirrel]

Perhaps a stupid question... But oh well.

Given that not all mechs have the same overall armor... and let's just say no additional armor is added to the total value.

Why does everyone have 18? Seems logical that certain mechs with larger designs would compensate for this (Cough cough Awesome) Honestly be a reason to use one over the other. (We semi have this with certain mechs like the Dragon, Jenner, Raven) Which have a smaller profile, but this isn't quite the same.

The only reason I can fathom is in the TT due to random hit nature they wanted to make it even. Shouldn't it actually be based upon weight class, and dimensions? Why does the smallest have the exact same as the largest?

I'd really like a semi logical reason other than "This book says so." Let's put cold hard emotionless science to this now.

[wanderer]

The "head" armor actually represents the cockpit and the systems immediately surrounding it- after all, you can shoot an Atlas in the "head", but you're really damaging it's CT armor unless it's that one small section on the 'Mech. Too much armor covering that vital spot unfortunately renders it impossible to eject from.

In TT, there are actually torso-mounted cockpits that are much more heavily shielded...but if the 'Mech suffers catastrophic damage, there is no ejection system to get clear as a result. You go down with the ship. Most pilots prefer the lesser protection in exchange for the ability to actually survive the destruction of their machine. That's the reason why "head" armor is limited. It's the point where the 'Mech armor has to be able to be blown clear to allow the pilot a clear escape when ejecting.

[Solis Obscuri]

Because we don't have to roll dice for a 1-in-32 chance to hit the head of a 'mech.

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

My recollection from TT is that armor allotment is based on Internal structure. Each mech had a set number of IS points per location. All locations vary in IS points based on weight of the mech except the head, which always had 3 IS points. Therefore all mechs had the same Maximum head armor, regardless of weight.

Edited by Redmond Spiderhammer, 20 November 2012 - 05:13 PM.

[OneManWar]

I like to blame it on ferroglass. All mechs cockpit windows are made of ferroglass, which isnt any stronger from one mech to another. So I consider a 'head' hit and nailing them in the windows, even though it technically isn't.

[Monky]

Generally, it's a TT rule and it was that way as you decided hits and the location hit in tabletop with dice, meaning all mechs had the same chance to be hit in the head (barring things like pilot skill/shooting a shutdown target)

The reasoning is to encourage smart play and not alpha striking with super hot setups just to deal as much damage as possible.

Translate that into MWO and it works, so long as all head hitboxes are roughly the same across all mechs and very difficult to hit (unless like mentioned above, player skill or an easy shot such as a shut down battlmech). We get hiccups when we get new mechs with oddly large hitboxes for the head.

Edited by Monky, 20 November 2012 - 05:18 PM.

[TruePoindexter]

It's honestly an oddity of a universe that didn't think to put cockpits in the chest of the mech until well after the Clan Invasion so the reduced armor is from putting windows on the mech. The low armor value keeps it as an equalizer and a opportunity for canon to be able to kill a character at will. Seriously in lore I can think of dozens of characters who died from X hit them in the cockpit.

Even Gundam for all of it's ridiculousness had enough sense to put the cockpit behind a wall of armor. One of the stranger oddities of Battletech.

[BlackSquirrel]

So my theories are correct. Though the explanation of ejection is somewhat plausible... Though with more innovation seen added to mechs... No one ever thought to make a different ejection seat or a more robust one capable of over coming the limits? Also doesnt quite explain certain light mechs having the same amount. EG Smaller actual cockpit which means given armor couldn't possibly be the same in said area.

Question is why do we still use it?

[Cferre]

TruePoindexter, on 20 November 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

Even Gundam for all of it's ridiculousness had enough sense to put the cockpit behind a wall of armor. One of the stranger oddities of Battletech.

Huh. technological speaking Mobile Suits are way more realistic. With the emphasis on Mobile.

Unlike slow walking tanks with chicken legs.

[Budor]

19 was to much.

[TruePoindexter]

Cferre, on 20 November 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

Huh. technological speaking Mobile Suits are way more realistic. With the emphasis on Mobile.

Unlike slow walking tanks with chicken legs.

Complete with magical near invulnerable armor, beam swords that carried kinetic force, and psychics.

[BlackSquirrel]

Budor, on 20 November 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

19 was to much.

Touche... Good Sir.

[LionOne]

TruePoindexter, on 20 November 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

beam swords that carried kinetic force

It wasn't the beam weapons that forced the PSR - it was the evaporation of more than a metric ton of armor...

[Cferre]

TruePoindexter, on 20 November 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

Complete with magical near invulnerable armor, beam swords that carried kinetic force, and psychics.

Speed is key. Speed (mobility) has real life potential. A 46kph moving tower that can't dodge/block/parry has not.. And if you would pay attention to current RL technological developments, you would know that enough ideas/technological features in the mecha universe have some serious potential to have their RL entree at some point in time.

Edited by Cferre, 20 November 2012 - 06:10 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Because PGI doubled the amount of available armor/ton in each section to allow the mechs to survive a tad longer in a MPBT game that went from 4vs4 to 8vs8.

Imagine how quickly the a drop would end if the mechs had the standard TT armor values.

So, in TT 1 ton of armor is 16pts. In MWO 1 ton of armor is 32pts. The amount of available points per section were also doubled.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 20 November 2012 - 06:01 PM.

[BlackSquirrel]

Seriously nerd debating BT v. Gundam?

[nitra]

you dont have to put 18 on your head . you can do 3 or 1 or 8 or maybe ,even the lucky number 7 . How about 2? would that suit you? or maybe 4 for even more ?

not quiet the fix then try 6 . not feeling that jive then be fly, go and place 5. if thats not what you need then make it 9 wouldn't that be sublime ?

is that not quite enough then make it 10 then . or a 11 or 12 but even then you may need something ending in a teen like unlucky 13.

superstitious are we ? not to worry there is 14 15 and 16 to choose between,

alas if those are not enough then 17 and 18 is the last two left while not hip or cool they are most likely the safest you fool.

Edited by nitra, 20 November 2012 - 08:19 PM.

[StandingInFire]

(on derail)
Nope, Gundams have no semblance to reality, the reason I like Mechwarrior is because it’s the most realistic off all the Mech fiction I have seen (star wars is even more realistic). There is so much wrong with Gundams:
1) The maneuverability would kill the pilot unless you somehow invented magic inertia removing systems.
2) The size of the mechs means, you cannot maneuver that fast, the limbs/engines would shear off with the forces involved, unless you have super magic metal that’s indestructible yet not to enemy fire.
3) You would not make hands, they are a massive waste of resources, you would just put weapons there (when I see a mech with hands, even in mech warrior, it ****** me off) so many electronics, motors, and other components needed that weaken the structural integrity.
I could go on but that is the most glaring issues.

(on topic)
I would assume balance reasons and glass.

[Zakie Chan]

nitra, on 20 November 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

you dont have to put 18 on your head . you can do 3 or 1 or 8 or maybe ,even the lucky number 7 . How about 2? would that suit you? or maybe 4 for even more ?

not quiet the fix then try 6 . not feeling that jive then be fly, go and place 5. if thats not what you need then make it 9 wouldn't that be sublime ?

is that not quite enough then make it 10 then . or a 11 or 12 but even then you may need something ending in a teen like unlucky 13.

superstitious are we ? not to worry there is 14 15 and 16 to choose between,

alas if those are not enough then 17 and 18 is the last two left while not hip or cool they are most likely the safest you fool.

well done sir, the dr seuss of mw

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Ill borrow a response from the HS thing: Because otherwise it broke the game


lol