31 replies to this topic

[Nexus Trimean]

It Has happened in a Few Battletech Novels, but will we be able to control each of a Mech's arms independently? this would allow a skilled pilot to engage 3 targets simultaniously, One with each arm, and one with torso mounted weapons. I wouldn't think you would want to make this the default, but having the option for people with Dual Joysticks or other interesting setups.

[Nasty9]

Aside from the control issues, that would like unbalance the game in favor for those who could actually pull that off. If only dual joysticks/dual mice get that ability people will flock to it because it is outright better.

[Motionless]

Nasty9, on 02 May 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

Aside from the control issues, that would like unbalance the game in favor for those who could actually pull that off. If only dual joysticks/dual mice get that ability people will flock to it because it is outright better.

I doubt someone splitting their attention between 3 reticules on 3 targets will be at any sort of 'advantage.' Nor would they be at an advantage in a situation where there is only 1 or 2 targets present and they need to focus 3 reticules on them, meaning more work for the same result.

And splitting damage that could be focused it almost always a bad idea, the only situation it would really be useful to have three independently controlled reticules (one fixed to torso) would be if you wanted to engage 1 enemy as a priority, but one of your weapon systems can not reach him but CAN reach another target. But even then losing focus on your priority target will be a bigger hindrance than anything.

Edited by Motionless, 02 May 2012 - 10:12 AM.

[CeeKay Boques]

Nasty9, on 02 May 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

Aside from the control issues, that would like unbalance the game in favor for those who could actually pull that off. If only dual joysticks/dual mice get that ability people will flock to it because it is outright better.

So people that really worked at and invested in pulling off a super cool skill would be feared and admired for "actually being able to pull that off"?

Sounds awesome! Even if I can't do it, if I saw a guy firing his arms independantly with good accuracy I would be in awe and clapping interanally not complaining. Then I would figure out how to do it. Sounds great! Big fan!

[MaddMaxx]

One might suspect that the Control system required to run 3 separate and distinct Reticules may be more work than gain. Although a second Mouse, cost $5.00 can. and set to Left Hand, could make for some crazy control setups.

LHRMB, RHRMB, LHCW scroll (look down and left)

[Nexus Trimean]

It would be way for a single pilot to distract and harry many targets ideally distracting them from his team mates. the ability to engage many targets at the same time is not something to be scoffed at, while it most certainly wont get you the killing blow, this is not single player if you can be the biggest threat they will focus you while your allies chew them apart. Another situation where this is beneficial is when you are outnumbered cause several of your allies are down, it would allow you to still engage effectively even when facing multiple opponents.

It would be a difficult skill, but something that would add a slightly different bit of depth to the game. i dont see everyone trying it, but those that master it become more valuable to there team.

Edited by Nexus Trimean, 02 May 2012 - 10:52 AM.

[Kenyon Burguess]

i dont think theres technology currently available to allow that in a sim. unless your going to turn over targeting and shoorting to some kind of AI which would ruin the fact that the game is based on human skill.

[Nexus Trimean]

Geist Null, on 02 May 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

i dont think theres technology currently available to allow that in a sim. unless your going to turn over targeting and shoorting to some kind of AI which would ruin the fact that the game is based on human skill.

All you really need is 3 reticles and the ability to lock multiple targets, This is all still based on pilot skill no need for any kind of artificial control. one joystick controls the left arm aim, one controls the right, and the center is controlled by your mech's facing and torso twist. for weapons that are mounted to the chassis.

Edited by Nexus Trimean, 02 May 2012 - 10:57 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

Geist Null, on 02 May 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

i dont think theres technology currently available to allow that in a sim. unless your going to turn over targeting and shooting to some kind of AI which would ruin the fact that the game is based on human skill.

I would be more concerned with Mech weapons load-outs, for every additional Reticule, a weapons platform is reduced to single fire. Having independent Reticules and then spending even one shot where both select the same target, or Alpha, completed voids the whole idea.

Left arm a ML, Right Arm a AC5, then you can't fire both at any one target as the ranges don't Match up, except in close. The closer the fight gets, the tougher it becomes to actually converge 3 reticules while moving at all.

In an out numbered situation that last thing you want to spread your fire around. The swarm will kill you even faster if you can't debilitate/reduce their number faster than they can kill you.

[Motionless]

Nexus Trimean, on 02 May 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

Another situation where this is beneficial is when you are outnumbered cause several of your allies are down, it would allow you to still engage effectively even when facing multiple opponents.

Chances are your most effective strat will be to take down the biggest threat or the biggest contributor to their team objective, not spread damage over everyone lowering your chances of actually taking any one of them out before you get creamed.

[RedDragon]

Motionless, on 02 May 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

Chances are your most effective strat will be to take down the biggest threat or the biggest contributor to their team objective, not spread damage over everyone lowering your chances of actually taking any one of them out before you get creamed.

This. Using your arms independently only helps if you for example need to quickly target a mech behind you and your torso can't turn fast enough while your arm can.
If there would be many small, fast, lightly armored targets like infantry or vehicles, it could be useful to target more than one enemy. But with mechs as the only foe on the field, moving each arm seperately would be of limited use.

The only "real" use I could imagine would be for targeting enemies at different ranges (firing your LRMs on a mech 800m away and 90° to the right of you while firing the M-lasers on the mech in front of you). But even then I don't think even the best pilot could pull this off while being more effective than concentrating on a single target or just torso-twisting.

[CeeKay Boques]

RedDragon, on 02 May 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

This. Using your arms independently only helps if you for example need to quickly target a mech behind you and your torso can't turn fast enough while your arm can.
If there would be many small, fast, lightly armored targets like infantry or vehicles, it could be useful to target more than one enemy. But with mechs as the only foe on the field, moving each arm seperately would be of limited use.

The only "real" use I could imagine would be for targeting enemies at different ranges (firing your LRMs on a mech 800m away and 90° to the right of you while firing the M-lasers on the mech in front of you). But even then I don't think even the best pilot could pull this off while being more effective than concentrating on a single target or just torso-twisting.

Day 1? You're right. But after playing MW4 for years, doing side shots out the left or right window with the opposable arm there (only "extended" or "not extended" unfortunately) was the height of skill and fashion. After you've been playing for years, these sorts of advanced moves are what keep the elite coming back for more, and the new guys reaching for the stars. Situational? Yes. Show off-ey? Yes. Rule of Cool = Yes!

[RedDragon]

Yes, but you don't need 3 independent reticules for that

[SilentObserver]

Nexus Trimean, on 02 May 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

All you really need is 3 reticles and the ability to lock multiple targets, This is all still based on pilot skill no need for any kind of artificial control. one joystick controls the left arm aim, one controls the right, and the center is controlled by your mech's facing and torso twist. for weapons that are mounted to the chassis.

So my right hand is on a joystick controlling my right arm. my left hand is on a joysick controlling my left arm. How do i control my torso an feet whilst keeping my pants on?

[Long Draw]

The only situation where I can see this being relevant is like was mentioned before, harrasing other enemy mechs while your team takes them down (only a smart move if you're in an assault class), or if you are trying to take out several LRM tanks. Though, in the instance in which you are harrasing, you're going to need very powerful weapons on each arm in order to pose a serious threat (I'm thinking AC20, Ultra Gauss or PPC) to convince someone you are more dangerous than your team mate's mechs which probably have something like 2 Large Lasers, a couple mediums and probably a 10-20 Missile system.

Personally, if someone is harrasing me with an Assault mech with that tactic, I'll just blow their legs out from under them and then focus fire on any remaining threats.

[Paul Inouye]

My god what kind of control systems do you have to pull this off??

[Nexus Trimean]

A pair of joysticks, each joystick controls the arm, the left hat switch is your throttle, the right cycles the weapons, the right twist of the joystick (yaw i think?) is for torso twist, a pair of foot pedals steer left and right, there are enough buttons on the joysticks to map the rest of the tools you would need including jumpjets. At least thats the concept. the only control im having trouble finding space for is the elevation on the torso weapons, but i think a pair of switches on the left joystick for the middle and ring fingers could probably cover it, Or it would have to not bother with it and keep that pointed ahead at level. Im not sure what all other controls i will need, Eject will still be bound the keyboard, along with any other one time push key, on the left side most likely as thats the weak hand.

im looking at picking up a Steel Battalion controller and pedal set, or just buying a few good joysticks, I already have a set of pedals should i go that route.

This isnt a feature a lot of people would use, but i still think it would be fun and cool, perhaps of dubious use but still cool, theres not really any good way i can think of to test the viability of the setup, but i think its doable.

Edited by Nexus Trimean, 02 May 2012 - 11:05 PM.

[Long Draw]

I'll volunteer to Alpha Test this with Nexus in-game It'll be fun blowing him up repeatedly LMAO!

[Karl Streiger]

Limited Arm control was available since i can remember. I believe it was even possible in MW2.
All you had to do is to hit a key then you had control over the specifc arm instead of the torso. MW3 with the switch able Torso/Arm control gave you both.
Thats all you need. To hit or even 2 targets at the same time is a poor translation from the board game to fiction. You can do the same with more precision when shooting gun1 at target1 ant gun2 at target2 in a row.

[RedHairDave]

in every game i have ever played, focusing fire is more important than shooting at 3 targets. i cant think of a single scenario(other than range) where shooting at more than one target is better than focusing fire. now sure, maybe you have a srm 6 in each arm and lrm20's in the torso. so lrm at long range and srm6 at close range, maybe you get 2 close targets, and one long. but then why not shoot one of the close targets with both srm6's and hope for a kill shot. throwing the lrm 20's downrange as they dont work up close.