23 replies to this topic

[Makavelious]

It seems the majority of the pugs & new players believe this game is a game of being a one man army and not working as a team.

Until the new players & existing "lone wolf" players come to understand this concept, they will continue complain on the forums for nerfs etc.

[Taryys]

Tru dat.

[Guide] Playing with Friends, Groups, and Teams

[Zoknov]

There will always be new players (in a good game) and so there will always be complaints until the system is fixed. Or no more new players = the game is over.

[Sen]

Correction: There will always always be complaints.

It cuts away all the excess baggage and lets you get right down to cases.

Nothing you do will change this.

[Axeman1]

Majority of player base = Lone wolves

Not catering to majority = Dead game

Argue whatever you want, these two statements are true.

[General Kaos]

I love it when people say things like this game is ONLY ONE WAY and cannot be played any other way! LOL! Do you realize how silly that sounds? PGI has said that they support BOTH team style play and lone wolf play, so the argument that this is a team only game is invalid!

[Taryys]

Not it is not invalid.

You are assuming that they are going to support Rambo play and that is not going to be the case.
They are going to support lone wolves by giving you the tools to play as a team like voice comms, text chat, a robust command function.

General Kaos, on 21 November 2012 - 01:51 PM, said:

I love it when people say things like this game is ONLY ONE WAY and cannot be played any other way! LOL! Do you realize how silly that sounds? PGI has said that they support BOTH team style play and lone wolf play, so the argument that this is a team only game is invalid!

[wintersborn]

If this game is competitive team clan ONLY matches then it will not make any money and will have a very small player base. If thats what PGI wants well then good luck to them.

Where is the intergrated voip and all the other team based features that have been in games for years now ? Seems like PGI is smart enough to know they need new and casual players to survive, I wish some fanbois did.

Edited by wintersborn, 21 November 2012 - 02:07 PM.

[Taryys]

Ummm.. it is in the works, but they have been concentrating on other things.
The requirement for funding was minimum viable product at open beta and that is what we have.


Voice: The C3 voice client is lightly integrated for premades, but not yet for PUGs, which is really unfortunate since they are the ones that need it the most

Text Chat: Text chat is there but very basic. A more robust system will be coming at some point.

Command: Command Functions are there but very basic. A more robust system will be coming at some point.

[Wicksman]

Makavelious, on 21 November 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

It seems the majority of the pugs & new players believe this game is a game of being a one man army and not working as a team.

Until the new players & existing "lone wolf" players come to understand this concept, they will continue complain on the forums for nerfs etc.

Unless your a streakcat, in which case feel free to go forth and conquer.

[Shismar]

In my experience, most puggers play together pretty well. Dropping solo does not mean no team play. It just means, at least currently, horrible bad communication.

Of course, there are some lone wolfs. They don't do well if they are not in a Jenner. That probably won't change ever (well maybe the viable mech if a Jenner+ comes along ...)

A training map and practice matches might help new players.

[Taryys]

Please sign here:

How To Reduce The Grind And Create A Great New User Experience

Shismar, on 21 November 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

A training map and practice matches might help new players.

[General Kaos]

Taryys, on 21 November 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

Not it is not invalid.

You are assuming that they are going to support Rambo play and that is not going to be the case.
They are going to support lone wolves by giving you the tools to play as a team like voice comms, text chat, a robust command function.

When/if they actually do that, then the whole premade vs pug argument goes out the window, because the only real reason behind the stomping is faster communication. I know that it is hard for epeen stroking elitist premades to believe, but some of us puggers are actually quite good.

When the game is more of a meta-game, I will consider your argument. Until then, essentially all of the matches are Solaris matches: grind for C-Bills and K/D R. Thats it. There are no other rewards or enhancements. There is absolutely nothing pointing towards a team game at this point. Maybe it will change, maybe it will not. Time will tell. For now, PGI supports both play styles.

[wintersborn]

Taryys, on 21 November 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

Ummm.. it is in the works, but they have been concentrating on other things.
The requirement for funding was minimum viable product at open beta and that is what we have.


Voice: The C3 voice client is lightly integrated for premades, but not yet for PUGs, which is really unfortunate since they are the ones that need it the most

Text Chat: Text chat is there but very basic. A more robust system will be coming at some point.

Command: Command Functions are there but very basic. A more robust system will be coming at some point.

Thaks for the info, its good to see they are working on it and its still beta so hopefully a ballance system will be in place as well. Most games have some sort of auto ballance for casual team based play and I would think PGI should add it as well.

[NocturnalBeast]

Axeman1, on 21 November 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

Majority of player base = Lone wolves

Not catering to majority = Dead game

Argue whatever you want, these two statements are true.

Please show me the statistics to back this statement up.

[General Kaos]

Taryys, on 21 November 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

Please sign here:

How To Reduce The Grind And Create A Great New User Experience

I can appreciate what you are doing and promoting, but it is not always well received, and here is why.

1.) Some people really dont want to do the whole clan/group/lance/guild (whatever you wanna call it) thing because of the time involved. There is not just the extra time to set up the matches, but then all of the guild meetings to discuss plans/play times/ politics (rankings, etc), and policies. All of which have little or nothing to do with the game and are a collosal waste of said time.

2.) PGI has made the decision to not allow a full 8 man premade against an 8 man pug and reduced it to 4 vs 4. Why you ask? I am afraid you will not like the answer, but premades have just as much responsibility to creating that situation as the pugs. You see MWO was losing members at an astonishing rate because the premades instead of guiding and helping the new players, decided just to roll them over for quick cash and then tell the new players "hey you guys are real losers! If you wanna win join us, otherwise die again". Anyone with any social awareness would know that this is not the way to impress and invite people into your group.

3.) Installation of 3rd party software is just not acceptable when the game should have had in incorporated into it. Really, if the game was TRULY meant to be played as a team game, there would be some sort of comm system integrated into it. There is not, so the only conclusion can be, that this indeed is NOT a team game (at least yet).

4.) Some people wanna listen to music/watch t.v./watch a movie while they play. Casual players have to be allowed into the game, as this IS A GAME, and should be fun for everyone.

5.) Finally, some people DO NOT like being told how to play. It is just annoying.

TL/DR: Premades helped to create the current situation of 4 vs 4. Also, PUG's rock!

Edited by General Kaos, 21 November 2012 - 02:52 PM.

[Locan Ravok]

Makavelious, on 21 November 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

It seems the majority of the pugs & new players believe this game is a game of being a one man army and not working as a team.

Until the new players & existing "lone wolf" players come to understand this concept, they will continue complain on the forums for nerfs etc.

Please, point to all the in game features that allows team play. Make easier for new gamers and people without friends playing the game to play as a team.

We have only a text chat only while you are in the match and the ability to place some icons in the minimap. You don't have voip for pugs. As a mater of fact we don't even have a lobby to find new people to make a group.

EVERYTHING that allow team play is thirty part and external to the game. I would not mind play in groups if it was easy to create in game, but I will not beg a place in a TS server.

[Vermaxx]

I agree with Kaos. I would love to see the number of Tarrys' post count that is him hocking his guide.

I have zero interest in the following: joining a "team" with inflated leader egos, using comms with strangers, using a 3rd party system JUST to be effective at this game.

I don't need your guide to tell me these things, they are common sense. I just don't want to do them. The most useful thing I saw recently was advice on how to provide leadership to the random team members in each match, and I have been trying that.

I've got friends who are almost exclusively in the "fk pubbies" attitude, to the point where they won't tell them our plan when we play together. I started taking the commander slot and telling people where we were going and how to help. It has generally been successful. Sometimes I get a wise guy who openly mocks my efforts, but generally people do what they're asked if they have no other idea.

The main thing I was trying to avoid was the responsibility of stepping up every match. This game has a serious lack of people making any effort to lead the masses. The people with experience are almost exclusively playing in their teams, rather than trying to educate the masses. The amount of disgust I see focused on the people who don't want to group up is just inexcusible.

Some of the experienced players come here and write guides, and from Tarrys' read count I'd say it has been at least a popular read. The better effort would be in running smaller teams to include as many non voip users as possible, and trying to educate them on how to do things better.

Ultimately, the game needs features, not guides. They're coming, maybe, unless CW gets infinitely delayed.

[Taryys]

Both of you have obviously not even looked at the last mentioned post.
I have two posts mentioned above.

One is my Guide and the other is not.
Take a look at the one that is NOT the guide.

[Katina Tarask]

I'm really starting to think that tiering the game, into Trial-only matches, Casual Matches, and the full Community Warfare games, would be a better model. Trial-only servers would be for training and easy c-bills, Casual Matches to test your new builds and have no-pressure games with lesser repair costs, and CW for the full lances of vets, with higher rewards and higher Repair costs to ensure that people take them seriously.

Of course if we could just get proper matchmaking, that'd solve a lot of the issues.