34 replies to this topic

[CocoaJin]

Correct me if Im wrong, I can never remember a time lasers didnt converge through the cross hair. Yet it seems ballistics do all kind of wonky things and seem to have a definite "time to convergence" built in.

If all weapons are supposed to converge, shouldnt lasers and ballistics have similar flight paths, minus drop due to gravity? Shouldnt we see lasers fired prior to convergence appear to impact outside the cross hairs and then see them sweep inward toward the convergence point/cross hair?

Maybe we need to see lasers(especially arm mounted lasers), play out as sloppy as ballistics.

[Grayzzur]

Part of the problem seems to be that you aim the laser directly at the enemy, so convergence to range is not a big deal. For ballistics, you have to lead the target. Your crosshair isn't on the target, it's on that hill 500m past the target... and the weapons tend to converge at that distance instead of at the range of your target.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Why does it matter CocoaJin? They're two completely different weapon types.
Not trying to sound mean, just honestly don't know what the problem is between lasers and ballistics.

[random51]

Mass.

To change the direction of fire of a rifle you have to shift the entire weapon. Laser targeting can be handled in a variety of ways, most of which don't require shifting the entire weapon.

That is the technology explanation. The gameplay explanation is at the developers' discretion.

[Jared Synge]

Lasers are essentially beams of light, so they wouldn't suffer the "bullet drop" effect that a ballistic weapon would. An arm mounted laser would be linked to the target reticule much like the laser targeting system used by actual military, who can focus that been for quite some distance. Laser guided ballistics (smart rounds) sounds more like what one would eed to be as accurate as a laser.

[Blark]

MoonUnitBeta, on 21 November 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

Why does it matter CocoaJin? They're two completely different weapon types.
Not trying to sound mean, just honestly don't know what the problem is between lasers and ballistics.

The problem is that lasers all hit the same component, ballistics sometimes don't (due to convergence).

[New Day]

random51, on 21 November 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

Mass.

To change the direction of fire of a rifle you have to shift the entire weapon. Laser targeting can be handled in a variety of ways, most of which don't require shifting the entire weapon.

That is the technology explanation. The gameplay explanation is at the developers' discretion.

What? So lasers magically hit my target without the weapon aiming at them?

[Suko]

CocoaJin, on 21 November 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

Correct me if Im wrong, I can never remember a time lasers didnt converge through the cross hair. Yet it seems ballistics do all kind of wonky things and seem to have a definite "time to convergence" built in.

If all weapons are supposed to converge, shouldnt lasers and ballistics have similar flight paths, minus drop due to gravity? Shouldnt we see lasers fired prior to convergence appear to impact outside the cross hairs and then see them sweep inward toward the convergence point/cross hair?

Maybe we need to see lasers(especially arm mounted lasers), play out as sloppy as ballistics.

I didn't pay attention to this until now, but you're right. This is strange indeed.

[CocoaJin]

I can appreciate that lasers can be focused with lenses...if thats the technology being used in BT, than so be it, I can accept that. If its an unintended or broken mechanic in game, then resolve it.

I thought I implied that they wouldnt share "bullet drdop", sorry for the confusion, Im saying, if convergence was applied equally to all weapons(so no variable focal lenses), then the initial laser and the ballistic flight path should travel along the same azimuth...with the laser's beam sweeping in toward the point of convergence.

I think the idea that you aim the lasers on target, so there is minimal range error would be a good answer if it wasnt for the fact that you dont see and convergence error from lasers even if you sweep your lasers across multiple ranges(except for obstacles very, very close to the firing mech). This could be explained with variable focal lenses, but I'd like an official word from the lore/IP or the devs.

Are lassers using focal lenses or do lasers not being affected by the convergence mechanic? I believe I remeber both verbal and video explanations by the devs suggesting lasers were intended to be affected by the convergence mechanic, and there was no indication that lasers operated under a seperate model for rate of convergence.

[Suicidal Idiot]

There's actually an elite effeciency named "Pinpoint" described as "Weapon Convergence Speed" which "Increases Weapon Convergence Speed by 15%"
This implies that it takes a measurable amount of time for the weapons to adjust parallax aiming to point at the same spot.

And the following explanation from above seems accurate to me:

Grayzzur, on 21 November 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

Part of the problem seems to be that you aim the laser directly at the enemy, so convergence to range is not a big deal. For ballistics, you have to lead the target. Your crosshair isn't on the target, it's on that hill 500m past the target... and the weapons tend to converge at that distance instead of at the range of your target.

[elbloom]

Jared Synge, on 21 November 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

Lasers are essentially beams of light, so they wouldn't suffer the "bullet drop" effect that a ballistic weapon would. An arm mounted laser would be linked to the target reticule much like the laser targeting system used by actual military, who can focus that been for quite some distance. Laser guided ballistics (smart rounds) sounds more like what one would eed to be as accurate as a laser.

OP is not talking bout that, he´s talking bout CONVERGENCE, thats anothger topic.
Problem is, see, you hug that hill for LRM cover, have Ballistics in the side torsos or worse the arms, step behind the hill for a shot, shoot and....
The weapons converge at 50m or so, cross each other there and completely miss the target 400m away you just shot at. by FAR !

edit: it´s because the game still thinks your aiming for that hill you just stood behind.

Edited by elbloom, 25 November 2012 - 02:45 AM.

[Teralitha]

Grayzzur, on 21 November 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

Part of the problem seems to be that you aim the laser directly at the enemy, so convergence to range is not a big deal. For ballistics, you have to lead the target. Your crosshair isn't on the target, it's on that hill 500m past the target... and the weapons tend to converge at that distance instead of at the range of your target.

Nevermind all the other theories.. What grayzzur said is EXACTLY whats happening.

[Kobold]

Grayzzur, on 21 November 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

Part of the problem seems to be that you aim the laser directly at the enemy, so convergence to range is not a big deal. For ballistics, you have to lead the target. Your crosshair isn't on the target, it's on that hill 500m past the target... and the weapons tend to converge at that distance instead of at the range of your target.

This is why gausscats remain deadly. Their guns are close together, so even when leading targets they are likely to hit the same spot.

[rgreat]

NamesAreStupid, on 21 November 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

What? So lasers magically hit my target without the weapon aiming at them?

Moving small lens is easier.

[Kobold]

rgreat, on 25 November 2012 - 02:54 AM, said:

Moving small lens is easier.

You are thinking too hard. Currently there is no convergence speed for any weapon in MWO. Yes, this does mean that the "pinpoint" elite skill does nothing, and had never done anything.

[Thire]

Blark, on 21 November 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

The problem is that lasers all hit the same component, ballistics sometimes don't (due to convergence).

I don't see this as a problem beause if the lasers all hit the same component i do more damage on that particular component and sometimes even take it out. And if you don't want to hit the same component you can always move the cursor and let your beam wander over other components as well.

Edited by Thire, 25 November 2012 - 03:11 AM.

[JPsi]

Kobold, on 25 November 2012 - 02:55 AM, said:

You are thinking too hard. Currently there is no convergence speed for any weapon in MWO. Yes, this does mean that the "pinpoint" elite skill does nothing, and had never done anything.

Not quite correct. Convergence speed appears to be done via the hardpoint location and not the weapon itself in general. (torso vs arms)

As such, yes convergence speed does help, its just not so noticeable. PPCs suffer the convergence issue also due to leading, lending weight to the "leading is causing this issue and not the weapons themselves" argument.

[Ghosth]

If you had ever fired large lasers at small fast moving targets you'd realize that they often have convergence issues also.

Firing 3 large lasers at range I've often see only 1 of the 3 hit at the start of the burn. Normally by the end they are all tracking in.

However firing ballistics you'd never know that.

The real key to convergence issues and ballistics is to "Hold your cursor on the target for 1 second before firing" giving weapons a chance to fix convergence.

I suspect convergence is also why you see a round go flinging wild right or left sometimes. Slow down, give them a chance to adjust and they will reward you with more precise hits.

[Jason1138]

PPCs dont converge worth a crap, if you count them as lasers

[MegaZordTrololo]

To ghosth:

It's all well saying slow down to allow for weapon convergence, but this won't even help for a target moving at any speed. As others have mentioned several times in this thread; you have to lead your shots with ballistics, so your weapons will converge on some random object/point in the distance rather than your intended target.

I suppose the only way to cope with this is to keep your crosshair over the target, attain convergence, then quickly lead your target and fire before your weapons can de-converge again. It seems to me that the convergence system needs a rethink, certainly for ballistics.

Edited by MegaZordTrololo, 25 November 2012 - 06:29 AM.