31 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

I have an Atlas-D-DC build with two LB10Xs and three SRM6s. Its designed to cluster people to death. Its an absolutely terrible mech, but its a lot of fun to play.

[Selfish]

The LB10-X isn't that great.

It's the most expensive weapon in the game. Its range is nil compared to its competitors. Even though it fits, weighs, and fires like a ballistic it gives up the main advantage of the ballistic platform: Putting shots into select components as quickly as possible. Shooting at lights and stripping armor is neat, but it's a very expensive solution to a problem better solved by other methods.

I feel like this needs a paragraph of its own to say: The LB10-X isn't that great at crit-seeking. Basic items within components have 10 HP. There are two rolls when you shoot an exposed internal. The first roll is whether or not you crit [1x = 25%, 2x = 14%, 3x = 3%, TOTAL CRIT CHANCE = 44%]. The second roll(s) is/are which equipment you hit. If you double or triple crit, these are separated into their own rolls of the shot's damage. The chance of an item being struck is based off the proportional size of the equipment. The more critical slots the item takes, the higher chance it has of being hit. This second roll makes crit-seeking exceedingly difficult for low damage weapons like the 10-X, which is really just ten pellets of one damage each. I'd argue that the AC/10 is a much better crit-seeker as it can strike at high critical buffer areas and still destroy items.

For example: Let's say the 10-X gets five 2x critical hits on a component containing just two tons of ammo and nothing else. That's ten rolls of one damage each being distributed randomly into two places--each with a 50% chance of being hit. You are now hoping that ALL of those land in the same item. Now shoot that same component with the standard AC/10 and get a double crit. You have two rolls of ten damage each into two components. You destroy both items and cook off the ammo.

tl;dr: If you want to seek out crits, use weapons that guarantee item destruction with just a single 1x crit. Your odds of success are better against opponents who buffer vulnerabilities with higher crit items.

Edited by Selfish, 30 November 2012 - 01:50 PM.

[JustPyro]

I think something is missing from the argument. If you miss with your AC-10, you can either, miss the mech entire. 0/10 damage, or hit a fully armored side torso when you meant to get center. or the arm when you meant side torso.

With the LB, you can "miss," but still put 3 or 4 damage into the desired torso. You can hit the arm, get 3 points there, and 3 more on the side torso. The whole point is that it's NOT an all or nothing weapon.

It's a fast firing, low heat, close range weapon, that can rip armor off a moving mech. If you have great aim and tracking skills, you will likely be better off with your AC-10. But I'm constantly moving on the move. I don't sit and brawl. And it's a great weapon that will still deal damage if you're a little off the mark.

[Stingz]

Urza Mechwalker, on 30 November 2012 - 03:17 AM, said:

My prefered idea to achieve the desired effect would be. MASSIVELY increase its spread to liek ti was in (closed) Beta and maek each pellet do 2 points of damage. IT becomes great against light runners but still not very efficient against an atlas.

How about doing it the way MechWarrior 4 did, more damage total, but spread all over. Keeping the spread and boosting LBX/10 pellets to do 1.5 seems like a good way to start.

Closed beta spread would possibly work for LBX/20(Yes, shotgun AC/20), but not for LBX/10.

Beside people have asked before if LBX/10 can kill, a definite signal something needs to change.

Edited by Stingz, 02 December 2012 - 09:13 PM.

[Kai Lae]

The problem with the LBX weapon is simple. It, as designed, is supposed to be able to fire solid shot and cluster rounds. Everyone is familiar with the cluster rounds because this is how it works in MWO. Not having solid round selection means that it's mostly worthless as a weapon outside 200m (basically SRM range) and it also means that the idea of punching a hole in armor that then can be exploited by cluster rounds later is void.

So basically when people complain that it's underpowered, it is. It will remain so until the ability to toggle ammo is added.

[Lord Ikka]

Kai Lae, on 02 December 2012 - 10:00 PM, said:

The problem with the LBX weapon is simple. It, as designed, is supposed to be able to fire solid shot and cluster rounds. Everyone is familiar with the cluster rounds because this is how it works in MWO. Not having solid round selection means that it's mostly worthless as a weapon outside 200m (basically SRM range) and it also means that the idea of punching a hole in armor that then can be exploited by cluster rounds later is void.

So basically when people complain that it's underpowered, it is. It will remain so until the ability to toggle ammo is added.

This. As soon as I can switch the ammo and thus fire from both long and short range I will use it.

[BOOMLegShot]

The people who tell you it's great are either gravely mistaken, bragging, or desperately trying to make lemonade out of lemons.

It's just terrible. People will tell you it can graze scouts at close range. THIS IS NOT WHAT BALLISTICS SHOULD BE USED FOR. If you're outfitting a ballistic hardpoint with a short range weapon that mediocre against lights and awful against everything else, you're wasting a ballistic slot and taking up over 11 tons to do it. There's also the fact that it's 800k freaking c-bills!!! The single most expensive gun in the game. For what?

If you're going to use ballistics, then use then as they were intended: a long range heat efficient concentrated damage applicator. If you need dedicated short range anti-lights weapons, then that's what pulse lasers and streak are for. Use those energy and missile hardpoints for anti-light duty. Don't gimp your ballistics to do it.

Even if you wanted to use ballistic weapons against lights, then the AC2 is still the superior choice. Hold button down for rapid fire and you're guaranteed to score as much if not more damage against fast lights. You're saving 50% of the space and god know how much of the c-bill cost. Throw in over triple the range on top of that.

There's no reason to ever use LB10-X. I would sooner throw on machineguns for close range damage.

[Jay Kroc]

I don't care what other people think how things should be used...

I can only tell I bought a LB/X yesterday and put it onto my raven.
Did only 82 damage in total in the one game I played it but I got 3 kills. Iirc 1 Awsome and 2 Cataphracts.

What it also made better in the TT besides the ammo switching was the higher chance of head hits and snake eye center torso crits.

Edited by Jay Kroc, 03 December 2012 - 03:49 AM.

[WitchZero]

I have been running an LB-10X build on a Dragon for the last two weeks and have had good success and a good time.

DRG-1N

LB-10X AC (RA)
2 SRM 4 (CT)
2 M. Pulse Laser (LT/LA)
AMS

XL300 Engine

I use it as a Skirmish/Support role. You can strip wide areas of armor with the LBX/SRM Combo (30 DMG Spread) then use the two MPL to pinpoint 12 damage on a specific spot. It is not as good at finishing mechs as a pinpoint Ballistic. But when you are with a squad you can really cause some damage.

I average around 350-500 dmg, 1-4 kills, 3-7 assists.

[John MatriX82]

until this gun won't be able to toggle to a solid AC10ish shot, it's fairly useless, I'd go for the AC 10 instead.

I loved it way back in MW4, but now it's almost totally useless, when I want the "shotgun effect" i rely on multiple SRMs.

Edited by John MatriX82, 03 December 2012 - 03:41 PM.

[Snowcaller]

I save my LB10's for when i hear Shang Tsung or Shao Khan scream "FINISH HIM!" in my neurohelmet.

WitchZero, on 03 December 2012 - 01:09 PM, said:

I have been running an LB-10X build on a Dragon for the last two weeks and have had good success and a good time.

DRG-1N

LB-10X AC (RA)
2 SRM 4 (CT)
2 M. Pulse Laser (LT/LA)
AMS

XL300 Engine

I use it as a Skirmish/Support role. You can strip wide areas of armor with the LBX/SRM Combo (30 DMG Spread) then use the two MPL to pinpoint 12 damage on a specific spot. It is not as good at finishing mechs as a pinpoint Ballistic. But when you are with a squad you can really cause some damage.

I average around 350-500 dmg, 1-4 kills, 3-7 assists.

OMG, someone who uses a Dragon for what it was designed for instead of hating on it.

John MatriX82, on 03 December 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

until this gun won't be able to toggle to a solid AC10ish shot, it's fairly useless, I'd go for the AC 10 instead.

I loved it way back in MW4, but now it's almost totally useless, when I want the "shotgun effect" i rely on multiple SRMs.

Maybe true if you have the hard points and i have always had a soft spot for srm's since 1604 but if you only have a ballistic slot, even 4 Clan Streak 6's won't help.

[Redoxin]

Its crap. if you want somethign in that weight class, just go for the AC10 instead. Its always better because it delivers the same damage on one particular spot and can be used on much bigger range.

The only reason to use LB-X might be if you have a lot of trouble with aiming.

Snowcaller, on 16 December 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

OMG, someone who uses a Dragon for what it was designed for instead of hating on it.

The same build would still be better if he used an AC10.

Edited by Redoxin, 16 December 2012 - 02:20 PM.