11 replies to this topic

[Lightfoot]

Maybe this belongs in General Discussion, but the Cataphract came out with the current patch.

I am just comparing the Cataphract to the Catapult K2 and A1 and there is none. K2 and A1 will win every time because of hardpoints and their placement on the 'mechs.

Since the Gauss nerf the K2 2x AC20 has taken the place of the Gausspult and placement of the AC20s makes them difficult to hit face on. The CPLT-A1 is always the 6x SSRM 2 and it always wins unless outnumbered.

On the Cataphract side you can't carry 2x AC20, and that's ok, but even the Centurion has better hardoint options. Like why can't the Cataphract carry 3x Missiles, 2x Ballistics and 2x Energy? At least the Cataphract could make use of this like the Centurion does.

Anyway, you set the balance bar with these other 'mechs and new 'mechs are going to need to match it. I don't see how the Cataphract does. Like the 4X, it has 4x Ballistics, but no use for 4 since 4x any gun needs too many heatsinks (MWO has no DHS remember). It also has 2 Energy in the useless CT location and 1 Missile in it's Head. Really? What is this 'mech supposed to do? Take 2 AC10 against 2 AC20 on the aforementioned K2? Now if the CFT-4X also had 3 missile hardpoints you could come close to competing in some fashion.

And the Cataphract is also a fat target in so many ways. Easy headshot, backshot, center torso, easy to shoot the arms off. So it doesn't last as long as the Catapult either.

So the best config for most Cataphract's is 2x Gauss, distant second best would be 1 large AC or Gauss and large lasers. No variant of the Cataphract offers anything better really. If PPCs ever work, things could change of course.

Anyway my real point is that the 'mechs need to be balanced better or you will end up with bin full of un-used mech chassis after awhile, not a balanced game. The Awesome, for instance, is fading out now except for the 4x missile version.

[keith]

3-d 2 guass 1 ppc JJs. k-2 can't do that. bring back the days of MW4 jump sniping days:P

[Dan vuong]

Have you seen the number of people doing massive damage with the 4x Ballistic variant. Utilizing 2 ac/2s and 2 Ultra Ac/5

[John MatriX82]

I like Cataphracts a lot, both 1X and 3D allow variable setups and the mech in general is balanced, although not much resistant.

It's a decend direct fire support, once you elite it it becomes also a nice brawler, maybe the Dragon is better, but the arms of the CTF allows it to be good if you torso twist.

I've completely skipped 4x, besides 2xAC2+ (not nerfed) 2xUAC5, i find k2 superior. Arm mounted gauss is a pain due to convergence and you have to pop out of the cover a lot more. Better to stick with dual side torsoes PPCs..

[Corvus Antaka]

yup. catapult tiny side torsos are a real problem. changing it so the mech cant abuse it's body this way would be good. Everyone has known this for months.

Edited by Colonel Pada Vinson, 22 November 2012 - 03:56 PM.

[Jacob Dieffenbach]

Don't expect to see any big changes to Catapults for a while. At least until they have the JagerMech as well as the Cataphract polished up.

The reason? Because they need to see in real time, not in spreadsheets or forum threads, whether or not people will prefer the JagerMech and Cataphract over the K2. If they don't, THEN they'll fix the K2 because they'll have hard proof that it isn't going to see decreased use upon "official" Gauss-'Mechs. If people swap out their K2s for the arm mobility of the JagerMech, well, then no changes need be made.

Likewise, they're probably not going to change the Gauss rifle until the 'Mechs that can mount multiples of them are fully added into the game and everyoen's had a chance to buy them. Because right now, they can't distinguish (easily) where the overpowered nature of Gauss Rifles ends and the overpowered nature of tiny torso sections begins.

But one change they'll LIKELY make is adjusting the K2 to grow cannon barrels from its sides when it has Gauss/AC20s installed, in the reverse fashion of the PPC arms being removed when the PPCs are. The more slightly bigger torsos and more distinctive silhouette will be something they'll want to have before big decisions are made regarding balance.

Edited by Jacob Dieffenbach, 22 November 2012 - 04:09 PM.

[Koningswulf]

Cataphract seemed like a good mech, now after have played three variants and gotten them all up to elit I am very disapointed.
They are very easy to Headshoot ( I have never suffered much from headshoots but in the Cataphract it happends lot of times)and also they are very easy to hit in the Right and left torso, and if they are equiped by XL engine thats also insta death.
They have very few advantages since they lack armor and weapon power compared to Atlas and they lack speed compared to medium and light. All in all they are just a big fat target painted orange. I normally play a Atlas and before I thought the Awesome was the best mech target since they where easy to kill now the Cataphract are even easier.
Some modification are needed on them.
First paint the head glass tanned black so as not to make them obvious target.
Secondly increase their max rating of armor in left and right armour and arms
This way at least it might be possible to run them without instadeath from headshoot or torsoshoot.
Just my 2cent

[Narcissistic Martyr]

I think the Cataphract will be an excellent heavy raider with max engine, a gauss and 4 MPL. Add in some JJ to gain positional advantage and you'll be set. You can do something similar on a DRG-1C but it's got less free tonnage.

Of course, it's more fragile than the dragon since you can actually hit the side torso, but it's got an extra ton or so for weapons and the like and JJ.

Too slow for my taste, but this is the niche I see for the Cataphract.

[Conraire]

I see a lot of people don't understand why the mechs armor is set up the way it is, as well as the hardpoints. To explain, MWO is mostly based off an old TT mini's game, or Pen and paper RPG Called BattleTech and Mechwarrior respectively. Which means the variants you see in game are directly from the TT games with their armor doubled. To add, there was NEVER a Catapult variant designed around Gauss or AC20. If they get off their butts and add the Arrow IV missiles, this may alleviate the dual gauss/ac20 issue, which is what the Cplt was designed for.

And if you wanna run a phract run 4 ac2s that can tear some stuff up

[QuantumButler]

Cataphract 1X is also the only heavy mech with more than 4 energy hardpoints [it has 5].

I run my 1X with a gauss rifle, standard 300 engine, and 5 mls.

[xXBagheeraXx]

You obviously havent been on the wrong side of a quad ac2 cataphract.....

I dont use that cheese config myself, but the 1x and the 4x are excellet...4 medum beams 1 ac20, and 2 ac10's 2 medium beams, 1 srm2 with 42 and 120 rounds for the cannons respectively...You try cramming that into a Catapult and see if that works...

It has much more firepower at the expense of speed and survivability....what more could you want in the name of balance?

[Ashrok]

To be honest, I'm loving my 1X and 4X - no, I don't use super cheesy builds. My 1X has 5 med pulse and 1 AC/20, and my 4X has 1 Gauss, 2 AC/2s, 2 Med Las, 1 SSRM2. Those are really good all around builds. And really fun. Much more fun than pseudo-Jaggermech builds.