23 replies to this topic

[Red squirrel]

Hi out there, (If this is too much text for you skip to Tl;dr at the end)

today I'd like to start a discussion about the distinguishability of the different mech chassis.
So far I think PGI has done a great job to give us not only new chassis but also everytime a new role.

I dont feel that Jenner (35t) and Raven (35t) or Centurion (50t) and Hunchback (50t) a redundant desings.
Actually each cahssis so far has it's role. But with the increasing amount of mechs this will be more and more difficult. And when I just had a look at the confirmed mechs list:
http://mwowiki.org/w...Confirmed_Mechs

I got the feeling: "In the beginning PGI wanted us to be able to play all roles with the few chassis in" but "Now it gets narrow for the new ones to find their place"



Some examples

The Trebuchet: If I look at the hard points I would say it is the same as the HBK4-SP

The Jagermech: I was very excited about this particular one but now It looks like a five tons lighter Cataphract without a jump jet variant.

The Highlander: Great mech - but is seems to be an Atlas -2 energy HP +2 jump jets

The Stalker: We already have 4 missle hard points on the AWS-8R

The Flea: No advantage to Commando/Spider as long as speed is capped at 140KPH.



My conclusion:
Since we can engage in heavy mech lab action (which I very much like)
I think the variants should be a bit more restrictive as it is the case for:
Commando, Jenner, Circada, Dragon.
Even the Raven fits well in here. It gives more freedom of weapon choice but is significantly slower than the Jenner.
And the Centurion until the D variant got steroids - this one I call the 'baby dragon'.


May the discussion begin




Tl;dr
I think each chassis should have a strong flavour (e.g. Commando, Jenner, Circada, Dragon) They should not feel like omni mechs.

I think some mech variants collide / make others obsolete:
HBK-4SP --> Trebuchet
CN9-D --> 'Baby' Dragon
CTF-4X --> Jagger Mech
AWS-8R --> Stalker
Catapult .... let't s not talk about that it really feels like 3 different chassis C1 A1 K2


Edit: Corrected spelling
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1478097

Edited by Red squirrel, 23 November 2012 - 08:51 AM.

[Voidsinger]

You seem to forget one important distinction. Ride quality varies,

Also, turning rates, engine upgradability, torso twist range and speed, arm movement range and speed, cockpit view.

Different tonnages have different armour maximum.

There is much more to a mech than hardpoints.

[Nayru]

Something to keep in mind is that the raven can be just as fast as a jenner with the same engine, but is just fitted with less. Meant to have ECM and whatnot, but only one variant does, which is kind of an issue in and of itself. Regardless.

[Vincent Lynch]

Red squirrel, on 23 November 2012 - 01:40 AM, said:

The Trebuchet: If I look at the hard points I would say it is the same as the HBK4-SP

The Jaggermech: I was very excited about this particular one but now It looks like a five tons lighter Cataphract without a jump jet variant.

The Highlander: Great mech - but is seems to be an Atlas -2 energy HP +2 jump jets

The Stalker: We already have 4 missle hard points on the AWS-8R

The Flea: No advantage to Commando/Spider as long as speed is capped at 140KPH.

You are in some ways right but...

x) Trebuchet: has hardpoints in both arms (at least unlike the centurion), the one K variant will become interesting as it combines hard points of all 3 types while using both arms to do it (unlike both the hunchback and the centurion. Also AFAIK we will get a jump-capable variant. There is no jump-capable medium yet.

x) JagerMech: Main difference to Cataphract is symmetrical hardpoints, like the Catapult. Main difference to catapult is that we will have one variant with 4 ballistics, and another one which combines hardpoints of all types.

x) Highlander: Assault with jump jets, that's enough difference for me.

x) Stalker: not much choice since the Battlemaster is unseen. You are right insofar as if they had planned to do the Stalker, they should have rather done the Zeus instead of the Awesome, because both Awesome and Stalker do not have ballistic hardpoints. It will have totally different hitboxes than the Awesome though.

x)Flea: not much choice here either. Locust, Wasp, Stinger are unseen; Thorn and Hornet are too close to the Commando, also have too few variants. Also the Flea will probably have the following features (gut feelings, but I trust my gut feelings): 1. higher spead cap than commando, maybe can get as fast as a Jenner; 2. might be used to introduce MASC (which might make it HOLY CRAP fast; a 20-ton with a 160 engine and MASC engaged would be able to do up to 172 kph, and as engine weights below 180 are very low, most customized fleas WILL do high speeds; also I doubt that the cap will be below 160, since they probably will want players to be able to "emulate" Locusts); 3. unlike the Commando, at least one variant will offer ballistics slots.

TL;DR: they are different enough, I think.

[Booran]

I always pick the coolest looking mech. Right now, Centurion, next up is highlander.

[Vincent Lynch]

Booran, on 23 November 2012 - 05:15 AM, said:

I always pick the coolest looking mech. Right now, Centurion, next up is highlander.

this is why I'm longing for the Stalker.

[Booran]

big ol' *****-legs

[stjobe]

Voidsinger, on 23 November 2012 - 03:21 AM, said:

You seem to forget one important distinction. Ride quality varies,

Also, turning rates, engine upgradability, torso twist range and speed, arm movement range and speed, cockpit view.

Different tonnages have different armour maximum.

There is much more to a mech than hardpoints.

Indeed, and don't forget module slots and eventually role warfare restrictions on modules.

[FerretGR]

Vincent Lynch, on 23 November 2012 - 05:14 AM, said:

x)Flea: not much choice here either. Locust, Wasp, Stinger are unseen; Thorn and Hornet are too close to the Commando, also have too few variants. Also the Flea will probably have the following features (gut feelings, but I trust my gut feelings): 1. higher spead cap than commando, maybe can get as fast as a Jenner; 2. might be used to introduce MASC (which might make it HOLY CRAP fast; a 20-ton with a 160 engine and MASC engaged would be able to do up to 172 kph, and as engine weights below 180 are very low, most customized fleas WILL do high speeds; also I doubt that the cap will be below 160, since they probably will want players to be able to "emulate" Locusts); 3. unlike the Commando, at least one variant will offer ballistics slots.

Great post. Re: MASC: is that confirmed in-game? I'm looking forward to all the lights breaking their own legs

[stjobe]

FerretGR, on 23 November 2012 - 05:40 AM, said:

Great post. Re: MASC: is that confirmed in-game? I'm looking forward to all the lights breaking their own legs

It's not confirmed per se, but both the Cataphract and the Flea have confirmed variants that use MASC, so it's a fair bet it will be implemented.

[FerretGR]

Good call. LOL, even better, broken Cataphract legs

[Jacob Dieffenbach]

I am a strong advocate for a redo of the hardpoint system with "large" hardpoints that fit everything 2 crits or higher, and regular hardpoints fitting 1-crit systems.

This'd eliminate a lot of redundancy--the K2 would no longer be able to fit Gauss Rifles--and strengthen the relationship between chassis and role on the battlefield (the Jenner would not be seen fitting large lasers or PPCs, because that's not its role and it doesn't have hardpoints for that).

I don't know if that'd be possible now that the game's in open beta and people have spent money on chassis. But I do feel it's a better solution than what we have for some of these long-term problems.

[Redshift2k5]

Trebuchet will have more missile than a 4SP, and can run faster. It wil supercede the 4SP as one of the best solid mediums, but the 4SP will still have a place for those who are working on a trio of Hunchbacks

Stalker beats the Awesome for total number of hardpoints. Let's see you run 4x SSRM2 and 6x lasers on an Awesome. Also noteworthy is the arms vs nubs difference.

Edited by Redshift2k5, 23 November 2012 - 06:12 AM.

[Shiney]

Hmm... I think they are doing a great job on variation between mechs actually. To me, each feels different, have different loads etc, and whilst you can build similar mechs in different chassis, the cataphract is a good example of that in some ways, but it still moves, behaves, had some disadvantages [low arms] and advantages [being a 70 ton heavy].

[Red squirrel]

Voidsinger, on 23 November 2012 - 03:21 AM, said:

You seem to forget one important distinction. Ride quality varies,

Also, turning rates, engine upgradability, torso twist range and speed, arm movement range and speed, cockpit view.

Different tonnages have different armour maximum.

There is much more to a mech than hardpoints.

I agree with you.
The CN9-D -Dragon comparison might be a bit off.

But there are still some mechs that are very close to each other.
e.g.:
HBK-4SP and Trebuchet both 50tons won't be worlds apart from each other
The Jagger Mech and Cataphract is just a 5tons difference (both 65KPH stock)
Stalker and AWS-8R again 5tons (both 54KPH stock)

Sure there are still differences. Maybe the cockpit is nicer in one or it turns a bit faster.
But for me this is already a bit too similar.

[Red squirrel]

Vincent Lynch, on 23 November 2012 - 05:14 AM, said:

[...]
x) JagerMech: Main difference to Cataphract is symmetrical hardpoints, like the Catapult. Main difference to catapult is that we will have one variant with 4 ballistics, and another one which combines hardpoints of all types.
[...]

Don't forget the CTF-4X

[stjobe]

Red squirrel, on 23 November 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

Jagger Mech

... it's JagerMech.

[Red squirrel]

stjobe, on 23 November 2012 - 05:30 AM, said:

Indeed, and don't forget module slots and eventually role warfare restrictions on modules.

I am very happy about that. Restricting equipment like ECM to certain mechs would be a great choice.
Finally the Jenner 7K might have something to offer (right now it's just rediculous)

[Red squirrel]

bump

[Corvus Antaka]

i do agree on the jaggermech and cat-4X oddity. maybe the cataphract 4 X should only have 3 ballistic hardpoints?