55 replies to this topic

[IceSerpent]

Fiachdubh, on 24 November 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

More importantly Cats are one of the hardest mechs to kill, I am completely sure I have killed less of them then any other non light chassis. I have pounded away on their torso with AC20s, lasers and srms with little affect, in brawls Cats always take down my Hunchie and that was even before those ridiculous Streak Cats.

What do you have on your HBK loadout-wise? It is a tough fight against a streak Cat (as it should be, as you don't have that much CT armor) and requires use of terrain and spreading damage, but you shouldn't have much of a problem against all other Cat variants.

[JustAStick]

If Piranha Games stopped following the Battletech rules and just stuck with MechWarrior instead than everything would be fine, because MechWarrior strives to be realistic and Battletech is a TT strategy game.

[Skyfaller]

The problem with the catapult is its extreme mobility. speed-wise.

Its the one thing that allows it to a brawler. A streak cat cannot survive against a mediocrely armed medium mech if it could not jump+run around at near 90kph. Heck, even with the default engine at almost 70kph its ridiculously hard to aim at since they keep jumping around.

[IceSerpent]

Skyfaller, on 24 November 2012 - 01:07 PM, said:

The problem with the catapult is its extreme mobility. speed-wise.

Its the one thing that allows it to a brawler. A streak cat cannot survive against a mediocrely armed medium mech if it could not jump+run around at near 90kph. Heck, even with the default engine at almost 70kph its ridiculously hard to aim at since they keep jumping around.

It's not hard at all - jumping mech has to land and that's when you shoot it. Any custom medium can turn fast enough to do that. A disadvantage of a medium has nothing to do with jumping - it simply has less CT armor than a heavy, so it's vulnerable to a weapon system that homes on CT.

[Oppresor]

In theory an Atlas (any build) should be able to take a Catapult out on a one to one basis. If it can't theres no reason for it's existance. Having said that, when I have used a Catapult I normally have a better chance against Jenners because of the increased speed and manoeuvrability.

[Alex Wolfe]

IceSerpent, on 24 November 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

It's not hard at all - jumping mech has to land and that's when you shoot it. Any custom medium can turn fast enough to do that. A disadvantage of a medium has nothing to do with jumping - it simply has less CT armor than a heavy, so it's vulnerable to a weapon system that homes on CT.

A jumping mech has to land and that's your window to shoot it, yes.

The mech in question, however, can shoot streaks even in mid-air with unimpaired accuracy, while the netcode eats your own shots.

Netcode creates a lot of issues, sure, but it adds to the overall Catapult resentment (other jumping mech can't spit 30 point aimbot-alpha strikes on you while gliding).

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 24 November 2012 - 02:54 PM.

[RiceyFighter]

Problem going to be fixed when Gauss rifles explode and take out your CT.

[Chacotay]

Granted I haven't played in a few days, but am I the only one that gets kind of excited when I see a Cat? They're really not that hard to kill at all, and I'm just piloting a Hunchie 4SP. A few SRMs and MLAS in that head, and they're down pretty quick.

I won't lie, I do feel like some of mounting options are a little ridiculous (for example, watching a jenner with a PPC running around), but hey - that's one of the perks of the game! I bet you wouldn't be complaining if you found a slightly ridiculous build and was tearing the place up with it

[IceSerpent]

Alex Wolfe, on 24 November 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

A jumping mech has to land and that's your window to shoot it, yes.

The mech in question, however, can shoot streaks even in mid-air with unimpaired accuracy, while the netcode eats your own shots.

Netcode creates a lot of issues, sure, but it adds to the overall Catapult resentment (other jumping mech can't spit 30 point aimbot-alpha strikes on you while gliding).

Problem (or advantage, depends on what side of that SSRM salvo you're at) is that "aimbot" always aims for CT and that alpha strike is just 30 pts with 3.5s cooldown. Other mechs can destroy Cat's "ear" in two alphas or decapitate the Cat in one alpha - you gain some, you lose some.

[ConnorSinclair]

IceSerpent, on 24 November 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

They can't - admitting that mech that just killed them isn't OP would lead to an obvious conclusion that they got killed because of their own mistakes (in other words, because of them just being baddies), and that is not a thought these folks are able (or willing?) to entertain.

You going to back that up with anything, or just run your mouth shorty?

Cybercobra, on 24 November 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

ok im gonna give my opinion here. from what ive seen in all my time in this beta. according to you guys EVERYTHING that isnt a standard loadout is OP. and i do mean EVERYTHING. it could be quad machine guns on the cataphract and you guys will still call it OP becouse it desimated you when your armor was gone. hunchies are OP. cats are OP. jenners are OP. long range is OP. short range is OP. this gun is OP. this gun is OP. this dohicky is OP. have you guys ever thought of the idea that becouse everything is OP. nothing is OP anymore?

To be honest, without a strong community interface its a little difficult to get the word of mouth going. So its no surprise to me that post release we're still finding beta level issues. And some of these issues have been surfaced thanks to adjustments with previous statistics.

The dakkaphract even on AC/5 is a non issue because that mech worries about ammo consumption and pop-offs on an alarming level. Also it has a very wide center of mass, so its weapons and storage tends to take quite the beating.

This is all just pot calling the kettle black, especially after what happened to SRMs and UAC5, some of the most widely used infighter weapons reduced by LRM boaters back in beta. When was the last time you saw Pulse lasers? ER lasers? A flamer? When was the last time you flinched to a machinegun when your armor was stripped?

With a comment like that you should be ashamed to call yourself a competent mechwarrior player.

IceSerpent, on 24 November 2012 - 03:47 PM, said:

Problem (or advantage, depends on what side of that SSRM salvo you're at) is that "aimbot" always aims for CT and that alpha strike is just 30 pts with 3.5s cooldown. Other mechs can destroy Cat's "ear" in two alphas or decapitate the Cat in one alpha - you gain some, you lose some.

Except with a mean torso twist, speed and armor, it can avoid anything.

[Alex Wolfe]

IceSerpent, on 24 November 2012 - 03:47 PM, said:

just 30 pts with 3.5s cooldown.

What

IceSerpent, on 24 November 2012 - 03:47 PM, said:

just 30 pts

this... this can't be right

IceSerpent, on 24 November 2012 - 03:47 PM, said:

just 30

Are you serious? 30 damage aimbot strike, every 3.5 seconds... even disregarding shake (and there is shake, lots of it) that's more damage per second than double gauss. Without aiming. And you're putting it out here like it's unsatisfactory in some way?

How much damage would you like a no-aim weapon to have ?

[Renthrak]

Since the more inflammatory the post title, the more attention it gets, I'll just drop a link to a discussion of ways to reduce the complaints about Catapults here:

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1481328

[IceSerpent]

Alex Wolfe, on 24 November 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

Are you serious? 30 damage aimbot strike, every 3.5 seconds... even disregarding shake (and there is shake, lots of it) that's more damage per second than double gauss. Without aiming. And you're putting it out here like it's unsatisfactory in some way?

Dead serious. Shake is just a visual effect - it doesn't move your aiming point around and is merely annoying.

Here are just some examples to compare that alpha to:

1. Gauss Cat (twin gauss + twin medium lasers) - 30pt single location alpha at long range to 40pt at the range of SSRMs, 4s cooldown.

2. AC20 Cat - 40pt single location alpha, short range, 4s cooldown

3. Cat C1 (quad medium pulse lasers + twin Artemis SRM6) - 24pt single location alpha on 3s cooldown + another 30 pts of "shotgun" damage on 3.5s cooldown.

4. Hunchie 4P (twin medium lasers + 7 small lasers) - 31pt alpha at 3s cooldown (2.25 for small lasers).

5. Hunchie 4P (large pulse laser + 8 small lasers) - 34pt alpha at 3.25s cooldown (2.25 for small lasers).

6. Cataphract (3 large lasers + gauss) - 42pt alpha, long range.

7. Cataphract (twin gauss + large laser) - 39pt alpha, long range.

I probably missed a couple of popular builds there and won't even go into how big of an alpha stike Atlas has at 270m range. One thing all those builds can do that Streak A1 can't is fire that alpha strike at whatever location you want instead of just CT, and Cat's "ear" only has 40pts of armor max. After the second alpha your aimbot-to-CT only does 15 dmg per 3.5s, after 4th alpha that A1 is about as dangerous as a newborn kitten (pun intended) and most, if not all of those builds can fire at least 3 alphas on cooldown.

[Skyfaller]

IceSerpent, on 24 November 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

It's not hard at all - jumping mech has to land and that's when you shoot it. Any custom medium can turn fast enough to do that. A disadvantage of a medium has nothing to do with jumping - it simply has less CT armor than a heavy, so it's vulnerable to a weapon system that homes on CT.

Allow me to cure this ignorance....

1- StreakCat will have fired 2 salvos at you during his jump. You know, when you can only see his legs dangling above you and you cant hit it.

2- Streak's rocking your cockpit + streak cat jumping above you = you wont see it land. By the time you turn around or stop shaking, the streak cat has already landed and picked up full speed..and is almost ready to jump over you again.

3- You are not going to aim at the streak-cat arms to neuter them while he is jumping all over you and your cockpit is shaking.

4- Cat jumping over you and firing missiles straight down = the missiles can only hit 3 possible locations: Head or Lshoulder/Rshoulder (arms are not hit from straight above). 6 launchers firing 2 missiles each. chances are at least 2 launchers will lock on to your head and hit it. Thats 10 damage minimum to head slot.

That means in 3 jumps over your head your cockpit explodes (most mechs). If you're really unlucky the streaks could mostly lock onto one shoulder and cripple you.

I have a CatA1 and when I use full streak loadout its sick easy to just jump over someone and time it right so that you fire only when you're directly above the guy.. POW almost guaranteed head kill in 1 or 2 jumps.

[Alex Wolfe]

IceSerpent, on 24 November 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

I probably missed a couple of popular builds there and won't even go into how big of an alpha stike Atlas has at 270m range. One thing all those builds can do that Streak A1 can't is fire that alpha strike at whatever location you want instead of just CT, and Cat's "ear" only has 40pts of armor max. After the second alpha your aimbot-to-CT only does 15 dmg per 3.5s, after 4th alpha that A1 is about as dangerous as a newborn kitten (pun intended) and most, if not all of those builds can fire at least 3 alphas on cooldown.

Alpha damage isn't everything.

A1's window of opportunity is "all the time" due to the torso twist and ability to slingshot streaks while jumping, and you can only shoot the ears semi-reliably when it's on the ground. That's a tremendous DPS difference between streak cat and... anything. Literally anything else. It's also super-fast for its weight category/loadout (breaking 80 kph with speed tweak) and very heat efficient, with XL engine safely hidden in its invisible sides.

I don't know how you can not notice that while playing the game. Many other players did. The devs did and made a post on it. So, if you don't see the basis for it to be changed, but all those other people, again, including PGI themselves do - maybe you're in the wrong here, and so are your conclusions?

Just a thought .

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 24 November 2012 - 05:32 PM.

[Omega Drebin]

ConnorSinclair, on 23 November 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

2 AC20s?

Wait, really???? Aaaaaand how would one go about making such a thing? (just asking )

[Morashtak]

Kobura, on 24 November 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

Catapults are a fast 65-ton jumping machine with narrow side torsos...

This is the part of the Cat argument that should be addressed - If the Cat has an AC20 installed in the side torso(s) the weapon box from the Hunchback should be mounted on the "cheek(s)" of the Cat. Same with the gauss (any large weapon box will do).

A large weapon should be offset by a large hit box.

[ConnorSinclair]

OMEGA BLACK, on 24 November 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

Wait, really???? Aaaaaand how would one go about making such a thing? (just asking )

Stuff them into your K2 catapult, assign some ammo with case, strip some armor for weight.

Congratulations, you've a heavy mech with great turning mounting two of the heaviest weapon in game.

Enjoy facerolling every fatlus you encounter.

[Omega Drebin]

ConnorSinclair, on 24 November 2012 - 05:49 PM, said:

Stuff them into your K2 catapult, assign some ammo with case, strip some armor for weight.

Congratulations, you've a heavy mech with great turning mounting two of the heaviest weapon in game.

Enjoy facerolling every fatlus you encounter.

Mind blown, this is just....wow (I don't quite know how to feel right now, its a mix of disgust and awe )

[JudgeDeathCZ]

you said cat is one of best mechs in game?Alpha him 4 times in CT with your Atlas...i KNOW its not hard even from 90 degree cuz i have mastered only C4(which i play most active/most modified),C1 and 4xLL K2 for money grind.And i was killed 1v1 by atlas a LOT...which means OP is horrible pilot and shoud try to l2p...as well as others if u think K2 is superior only bcuz he can mount 2xAC20(use long range weapons...guess gausscat) or 2xGauss(use light mech/brawler) and if ure not able to kill them 1v1 i am sorry for you.
EVERY mech and EVERY weapon here have counter.Yes i know it bcuz i beat every mech same as they sometimes beated me...its just matter of skill.And if Gausscat/AC20cat can kill you with 4 shots bcuz ure brawling against them screaming:"Hello here is my cockpit!!!!" then there is smthing wrong with ya .