45 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

If youre gonna play a Cataphract-2X that way, why not just play a Fastlas-D-DC instead? I guess if you have to level up a variant of the Cataphract anyway... but still I wouldnt make it my main mech.

You can fit x2 Medium Lasers, Gauss, and x3 SRM6s, more heatsinks, etc... on a D-DC that can go 62kph plus itll have ECM, an extra module slot, and ~50% more armor. And all youre losing is about 10kph in speed.

That build just doesnt seem to be playing to the strengths of the 2X and other mechs do it better. Just something to think about... IMO the main strength of the Cataphract is in its speed and the fact it can go over 80kph and still bring a reasonable amount of weapons to bear. Obviously not an option for the 4X, but if you can put a 340 engine in, I see no reason not to. Speed is life in this game.

Edited by Khobai, 29 November 2012 - 07:36 AM.

[Eisenhorne]

75 kph vs 62 kph is a pretty huge difference.

[Selfish]

I'm currently going back and forth between these two:

STD 280
Large Laser (r. Arm)
AC/10 (2 ton)
2 Medium Lasers
2 SRM 6 (2 ton)
AMS (1 ton)
Endo-Steel
Double Heat Sinks
Full armor, sans legs
Alpha: 59

It's easy enough to switch out the Large laser for a medium, upgrade the torso lasers to Medium Pulse, and upgrade the AC/10 to an AC/20. It gives you less range to work with, but a pretty solid alpha of 67. I originally started with an XL + Gauss, but you lose 5 damage by dropping to a 10 and get much more staying power. The incoming buffs to projectile speed, and the AC10+20 in general will just make the builds that much better.

Edited by Selfish, 29 November 2012 - 02:17 PM.

[I WildCard I]

Ive been using this build to great effectiveness. Looking forward to running into you again on the field Lucy.


2x cataphract

XL 320

DHS/ Endo

1 gauss 3 tons of ammo

3 Medium lasers

2 SRM 6 packs with 200 rounds of ammo

Maxed out armor

AMS

Blacked out Phranken paintjob...


Moving at 80 kph with speed tweak. Consistently over 600 dmg with a couple kills. New go to platform...I stopped playing streak cat becuase of everyones QQ. Leveled out all the cats and atlases, loving the phract though.

Khobai, on 29 November 2012 - 07:26 AM, said:

If youre gonna play a Cataphract-2X that way, why not just play a Fastlas-D-DC instead? I guess if you have to level up a variant of the Cataphract anyway... but still I wouldnt make it my main mech.

You can fit x2 Medium Lasers, Gauss, and x3 SRM6s, more heatsinks, etc... on a D-DC that can go 62kph plus itll have ECM, an extra module slot, and ~50% more armor. And all youre losing is about 10kph in speed.

That build just doesnt seem to be playing to the strengths of the 2X and other mechs do it better. Just something to think about... IMO the main strength of the Cataphract is in its speed and the fact it can go over 80kph and still bring a reasonable amount of weapons to bear. Obviously not an option for the 4X, but if you can put a 340 engine in, I see no reason not to. Speed is life in this game.

Sorry man going to have to disagree, not the same type of battlefield effectiveness. They do not fulfill the same roles. 20 KPH is a big difference. Ill gladly take the increased mobility over the extra armor/significantly lessened manueverability. Especially when the side torsos on an atlas are effin huge. Pass.

[Moku]

Wildcard was just blowing up everything last night with that. I want one:-)

[An Individual]

I've been trying this build recently (or a similar one, I'm still using the standard engine) and I've been really impressed with it. I never thought of the Gauss as a short range brawler weapon but it steps into the role surprisingly well. It's a nice targeted damage spike with low heat usage so you can combine it with the lasers and SRMs fairly easily (as long as your paying attention to your heat).The low heat usage is what really makes it stand out next to something like the AC20. I was using a UAC5 originally and I think it might be slightly stronger but I got annoyed with it jamming all the time.

[Drach]

BigJim, on 25 November 2012 - 05:34 AM, said:

"dry-fit" for me please?
(ie; recreate this loadout in the mechlab, but then hit Cancel so it reverts back to your config without buying anything)

Cataphract 2X
* Std 300 Engine
* AC20 w/3x or 4x Tonnes Ammo
* 2x SRM-6 or SRM-4 w/2x or 3x Tonnes Ammo
* 2x Med-Las
* Max Armour or as close as possible
* Endo if possible, DHS of course

My 2x build
armor: 416
default engine
endo steel
DHS: 11
AMS and 1 ton ammo
AC 20 with 3 tons ammo
2 SRM 6 with 2 tons ammo
ARTEMIS [2 tons] for the SRM 6 launchers (really tightens up the grouping)
2 medium lasers
Fire Power rating 60
Heat Eff. 1.1

" Try it, Change it, Melt some faces " Enjoy

[Selfish]

An Individual, on 01 December 2012 - 04:45 PM, said:

I've been trying this build recently (or a similar one, I'm still using the standard engine) and I've been really impressed with it. I never thought of the Gauss as a short range brawler weapon but it steps into the role surprisingly well. It's a nice targeted damage spike with low heat usage so you can combine it with the lasers and SRMs fairly easily (as long as your paying attention to your heat).The low heat usage is what really makes it stand out next to something like the AC20. I was using a UAC5 originally and I think it might be slightly stronger but I got annoyed with it jamming all the time.

You should look into the AC/10 if you find the AC/20 too heat heavy. Come Tuesday the Gauss will have 3 HP, versus the HP of most every other items' 10 HP. That means a single crit (44% chance when exposed) from a SMALL LASER will completely destroy your weapon, and deal over 20 extra damage to your component as the Gauss explodes. It certainly works nice as a brawler currently, but it won't in a couple of days.

[WarfieldSRT]

Sorry if this is a noob question, but I haven't been playing long and still trying to figure out what my playstyle really is. But I was wondering about mounting an LBX in the torso instead. From what I've gathered about how these kinds of weapons work, while the AC10 is superior in that all the damage goes into one hitbox, the LBX is more effective once that armor is stripped, given that each flachette has a chance to crit?

[Asatruer]

Old School TT BattleTech LB 10-X was a pretty good crit seeker, but not due to any special rules that make its cluster round's submunitions any better at causing criticals, but due to the random hit location rolling system of BattleTech. Since BattleTech lacked MWO's ability to aim at areas where the armor has been stripped, having a lot of rolls on the hit location table increased the odd of at least one of them hitting the armor stripped area, and thus a greater chance of causing a critical hit. Considering that components would be destroyed by being hit regardless of how much damage the weapon hitting does, having six medium lasers was just as good as six machine guns, or six PPCs at exploiting this. Since shear volume was more important than the damage delt, it was more weight efficient to use lighter weapons (for the purposes of crit seeking, the higher damaging weapons were obviously better at destroying armor and internal structure).

Here in MWO, the critical hit component damage system works differently than BattleTech TT in ways more drastic than just the lack of random hit locations. Here gear have HPs (10 for most things, 15? for engines, and soon 3 for the Gauss Rifle) that allow components to potentially take more hits than they could in TT before being destroyed and the higher damage of the hit, the more likely the component will be destroyed. So it is completely the opposite of BattleTech, meaning here hitting with fewer heavier hitting weapons will likely cause more component damage. Still, internal structure seems to have a tendency to buckle before the components.

End product, even though the LB-X ACs from BattleTech were pretty good at crit seeking, they are not here due to the small damage each individual submunition from the cluster round.


Regardless of all that, I was having a lot of fun playing my LBX shotgun and dual SRM6 -2X last night, but it is important to know that the LBX is more about softening armor and improving the chance of hitting fast moving lights with at least a little bit of damage (though lasers are still probably better at this).

[Lefty Lucy]

I tried out the LB10X today as a non-explosive alternative to Gauss. I don't like that you don't get the sniping utility that gauss gives you, but it seemed to put out pretty respectable numbers, and increases your chance to get glancing damage against fast movers.

[WarfieldSRT]

I'm thinking that once this gauss "nerf" comes into play that it will suddenly become very undesirable for brawling, at which point maybe the LB-10X will be a better choice.

[Lefty Lucy]

WarfieldSRT, on 02 December 2012 - 03:59 PM, said:

I'm thinking that once this gauss "nerf" comes into play that it will suddenly become very undesirable for brawling, at which point maybe the LB-10X will be a better choice.

That was my reasoning as well. However, nothing I've tried has just been as consistently *good* as a gauss rifle, so I might try the gauss after they nerf it to see if the trade off is worth it. It just has such a good combination of heat efficiency, range, and hitting power.

[Sandra McCrow]

Sorry it's probably a double post...
Has anybody tried solid xl 320 with the red manace or any similar loaded ctf? With speed tweak she should obviously run as non-elite xl340... So the question is how's torso doing in terms of twist speed?
The idea is to find some more tonnage for ammo... As soon as you master staying alive for longer time you start to feel that you may use a bit more ammo...

[MasterBLB]

Hi pilots
Yesterday I bought CTF-2X and I amazed how superior for brawling it is compared to CTF-4X,mostly because its greater speed.48.5 kmh snail just cannot compete with starting 64.5 kmh,not to mention 2X is capable to reach over 80 kmh.
Here is my destined setup:
Engine: 325 XL Engine
Internal Type: Endo Steel
Armor Type: Std Armor
Heat Sinks: 15 (12) Double Heat Sinks

Tonnage: 67,00
Speed: 75,6 kph
Head: 18/18
Right Torso: 38/60
Right Rear Torso: 22/60
Center Torso: 58/88
Center Rear Torso: 30/88
Left Torso: 38/60
Left Rear Torso: 22/60
Right Arm: 44/44
Left Arm: 44/44
Right Leg: 52/60
Left Leg: 52/60

Right Arm: Medium Pulse Laser
Left Arm: 2x SRM6
Right Torso: Medium Laser, LBX10
Left Torso: Medium Laser
Right Leg: 2x LBX10 Ammo
Left Leg: 2x SRM Ammo
I'm pretty pleased with this design,but I wonder if adding Artemis system for SRMs would be a good idea,as well as changing medium pulse laser in arm to large laser.

[BigJim]

Lefty Lucy, on 02 December 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

I tried out the LB10X today as a non-explosive alternative to Gauss. I don't like that you don't get the sniping utility that gauss gives you, but it seemed to put out pretty respectable numbers, and increases your chance to get glancing damage against fast movers.

Three words;

Ay. Cee. Twenty.

Lefty Lucy, on 25 November 2012 - 10:25 AM, said:

The AC20 gives a mighty wallop against stationary mechs, but the projectile velocity is too low to make it even semi-reliable against fast moving mechs, and it generates a lot more heat. With the gauss instead you really have *zero* heat issues. I know it sucks that one gun is simply superior to the other, but blame PGI for that.

I sort of agree with this, though tbh even before the Gauss-Glass change I was preferring the AC20.

I know it sounds stupid, but with DHS I actually use the AC20 as my cooldown weapon, when the heat gets too high I just spam the big cannon key..

Also, if you want to take longshots it's amazing how an AC20 round at 600m will get people to pull their heads down despite it only doing about 70%-50% of it's original 20dmg.

My 2x Build is as follows;
* AC20 w/4t ammo (28 rds)
* 2x Med-Las
* 1x SRM-6, 1x SRM-4 w/Atemis
* Std-280 engine
* DHS, Endo, etc..

55 dmg alpha, usually beats Atlases in chest-bump comps (when you meet them in a dark alleyway & you just mash the fire-buttons until someone falls down)


It's weakness is circle-strafe battles - This mech is a line-brawler, designed to have someone next to it, or to block a cave entrance so that enemies can't run around it in simple rings.

Don't get me wrong - A speed-hunchie or fast cent who thinks that circle-strafing is a valid tactic will soon find out exactly why it isn't, but the pilot must understand how to manoeuvre to negate circle-strafing enemies.

Edited by BigJim, 08 December 2012 - 05:43 AM.

[Bagheera]

BigJim, on 08 December 2012 - 05:42 AM, said:

Also, if you want to take longshots it's amazing how an AC20 round at 600m will get people to pull their heads down despite it only doing about 70%-50% of it's original 20dmg.

This. Been practicing AC20 "long-ball" for a while. That devestating "THWACK!" sound doesn't get any quieter just because you are outside optimal range. Far more effective than the dmg you are actually doing. Of course builds that are tight on ammo might not want to go this route. I usually carry more ammo than most min/max'd builds because I sometimes get trigger happy and miss. That and <insert comment about degrading client performance here>.

[Xenon Codex]

Hello, I just picked up a shiny new 2X a few days ago and have been using the OP build with good results. I only have 300XL, but it's plenty fast. I sure wish my Dragon's 350XL fit in this chassis.

A couple of considerations I'd like to add. With the recent addition of Guass rifle explosions, it might not be a bad idea to add CASE to that area to prevent it taking out your engine if you're not running an XL. With an XL, I just make sure I have plenty of armor in the front and don't let people get behind me, as CASE won't help.

Also, since Guass ammo isn't explosive, use it to pad areas of importance. The ammo will absorb some damage and critical hits, keeping your lasers/SRMs/engine alive a bit longer. It seems on the CTFs that the side torsos are pretty easy targets, so I fill them up with Gauss ammo and heatsinks. I tend to store my SRM ammo in the legs, hasn't been a problem yet as legs rarely get shot off.

For armor, I heavily bias to the front. I typically run 15 in all the rear torsos. With a fast engine you should be able to prevent most things from getting behind you unexpectedly. I also shave some off the legs if need be, I've ran them around 40 with no problems.

Another variant is to remove the SRMs and upgrade to 3 large lasers. It gives some extra long-range power and simplifies your firing groups. You can then pull some armor off the left arm if needed. I did a couple 700+ damage matches last night with this configuration, and that's extremely good for me and my crappy aiming skills.

Edited by XenonCx, 13 December 2012 - 09:12 AM.

[Voridan Atreides]

Lefty Lucy, on 25 November 2012 - 02:32 AM, said:

I realize that the -4X is the new hotness with quad autocannons, and the -3D has jump jets, but I think there is a lot of potential in the -2X despite it being the least specialized of the cataphract chassis.

My favorite role to play in nearly any BT game is the "heavy cavalry." The mech that has the movement to get where you need it to be, and the power to kill what you need to die when it gets there. Before the cataphract, I've had to make do with the HBK-4SP, which while it is a fine chassis is lacking in the armor department for my chosen role.

After seeing the player Memory running a CTF-2X build similar to this one, I decided I had to give an XL engine a try. before I used the XL, I used an AC20 in my ballistic slot, but I find its shot velocity is too slow to be able to brawl effectively so I switched to a gauss for better brawling capability (ironic, I know). There's also the fact that an AC20 won't fit in the side torso with an XL. Two SRM6 packs in the left arm give a vicious close-range punch, especially because the limited number of tubes in the launcher keeps the missiles from spreading a lot. They have a spread similar to an SRM4 pack, rather than an SRM6, and come out in two flights. A pair of medium lasers gives ammo independence, and can add pinpoint damage to supplement the shotgun effect of the SRM launchers. The final build is as follows:

CTF-2X
upgrades: endo steel, double heat sinks
engine: 340 XL
RA: medium laser
RT: gauss rifle, two tons ammo
CT two tons gauss ammo
LT: medium laser, AMS, 1 ton AMS ammo, 3 tons SRM ammo, beagle (experimenting with the BAP, can swap it out for more heat sinks)
LA: 2x SRM6

Armor: 416 points, torso armor slightly shifted to front, armor slightly shaved from arms and legs.

The gauss rifle is heat-efficient enough that you don't really need any more than the 10 base DHS.

The proof is in the pudding:

It has great potential. I don't see the point in dropping the c-bills for the 3D and the loss of flexibility with the 4X. I can't wait to get mine!!!!!!

[Cerlin]

The build is nice and mine is similar too. One person asked if artimis is good and I personally prefer the shotgun effect of my srms, especially against lights mixed with an lbx10 have great results.