457 replies to this topic

[Reverend]

Ya know why no one should like the clans? ******. They sleep with their brothers and sisters.

[Homeless Bill]

Ashla Mason, on 26 November 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

...clans have effectively eliminated homelessness...

The Clans will die for what they have done to my people.

[Rannos]

I don't like the clans bacause they're literally hitIer in a space furry suit. Also because their existence is a transparent attempt at shaking up the universe with a nebulous outside threat. They really fit as well with the canon as the Tetatae if you think about it.

[Ashla Mason]

Tank Boy Ken, on 28 January 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

1) Only one part of that world got coverage. There is nothing disproving the existence of Tetatae with a higher Tech level.
1) I am playing Robotech (this game).
2) So you agree, that's pretty cool.
3) Well actually the Leader of House Liao also has to fight to stay where they are. With all those infightings. It's not like there ain't power play on the Top in the IS Houses.

4) I don't think the Clans are disgusting, they are a very funny cliche!

1)There is nothing to suggest that there were any tetatae that were more advanced.
2)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robotech
3) House Liao hasn't expierienced any sort of power struggle internally to the best of my knowledge in the years between 3025-3080; the closest would be when Candace Liao abandoned the Confederation to rule the saint Ives pact, but even then she showed no interest in ruling the parent realm. I suppose you could make an argument about Free capella being internal power struggling, but that's a serious stretch.
4) That's nice.

[2ndLtSnafu]

Damion Wolf, on 27 November 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

You really have to understand the Clans to find a reason to like them beyond their shinier aspects. For the uninitaited, the advanced technology, exquisit skill, prowess and lack of contractions is something new and excotic. They strive to be the best and to do more with less as a matter of pride and honor to themselves and their clan. What's not to become enamered by?

Then you start to get into the lore of BattleTech. For many of us, the Clans were our intro into the universe (MW2, MW3, Clan Tech spamming in other games). When I first played MW2 I had no idea what any of it meant. It really was another language to me. So when I really began getting into the universe, the Clans weren't really connected to it in my head. I started out near the end of the Grey Death Saga where they defended Defiance Industries from a rogue Davion commander. But what do I like about them?

They strive for perfection, although they are not perfect.

General Kerensky lead the remains of the Star League Defense Force into exile to prevent the Great Houses from using it against each other in an endless series of wars. His intentions were just but his goal failed. The Inner Sphere tore itself apart. Was it the right decision for him to make? Would he have been able to keep order if he pulled a Victor and started his own Hegimony with a monopolly on Things That Hurt People? Could it have saved the Inner Sphere three hundred years of conflict? Probably not.

When he reached their new hame, his forces were struck with much of the racism and many of the hardships that they faced in the Inner Sphere and civil war soon followed. To save what was left, those still loyal to the General's dream escaped to their new home and rebuilt.

To keep themselves from becoming the thing that they escaped from, and to preserve life and technology, the General's Son, Nicolas Kerensky, formed a new society. This was the genesis for what would later become the Clans. They would be build around a strict honor system and rules of war that were purpose designed to limit the loss of life, irreplacable material and precious technology. Intead of fighting unlimited warfare, they fought proxy battles for an objective and each commander bid as few forces as they thought they needed, thus keeping it as fare to both parties as possible. The fewer forces you used to take out your opponent, the more glorious the victory for you. The more you used, the less your glory. In this way, the truely great commanders and soldiers quickly rose to the top.

It was deemed that nobody who was not fit for the job of leadership would command. Those who wanted leadership had to earn it via battle and maintain it via battle. Leaders actually lead their Warriors into fights on the front line, shoulder to shoulder, because if they did not then somebody would think them weak. If you are weak, then you will have your position taken from you by somebody who is strong.

Just as stated earlier, conflicts in the Clan society last a matter of hours and are decided by the skill of the leaders (in deciding the battlefield, what they will defend with or, if attacking, what they will bring to the contest to counter the defender's advantages), the skill of the Warrios and the skill of the training.

Only the best was wanted. Thus began the selective breeding process, referred to now as the Clan eugenics program. And to support this Warrior culture there must be a workforce. That is were the freeborns come into play.

In Clan society, the likelyhood of a lower castman being killed by war is practicly nonexistant. That is one of the reasons why the Total Warfare unleased upon Smoke Jaguar was so devastating to moral. Sure they have a low value for individual human life but they also abdore waste of any kind. Killing a lower castman is morally wrong because it is wasteful, not because death itself is a taboo. And if a Clansman of any cast is captured by a rival clan (taken bondsman) then they work just as hard to prove that they are every bit as worthy to their new clan as to their old.

One of the reasons why Turtle Bay happened was because, in Clan Society, for a lower castmen to even touch a weapon was a smack in the face for everything that the Warrior caste stood for. The Warriors protected the other castes. So when the citizens rose up against them and took weapons to the streets, the Clanners were confused, enraged and aghast. This kind of thing does not happen in Clan society. They were losing irreplacable Warriors to their own lower castemen! So it was deemed more effective to just kill them all and save their Warriors.

For the reccord, when the upper leadership of the Smoke Jaguars found out what had happened (ie. the Khan), they were outraged. It had clearly spiraled out of control to the point that they bombarded the city. That was NOT what they wanted to happen but they couldn't admit to losing control. So to save face they sucked it up. If they had done anything else then they would have come across as weak - a death nail for any good Clan.

A Clan Warrior would end his own life on the spot if his Khan told him to with no questions asked. For them, honor is taken as seriously as anything can be (at least it was until the ***** era). Fighting the Inner Sphere wore away their resolve toward the RoE but even Warriors taken captive by the Inner Sphere served their new masters as loyally as they would any other. A society that can breed (yes, literally breed) that kind of selfless services is truely something special.

Yes, the Clans are a totalitarian people. No, there are not many freedoms enjoyed by the lower castes (at least not in the way we know it). And yes, the average Clanner (trueborn or otherwise) really believes in the ideals of the Clans and is, on average, happy in his or her life. Is it perfect? Hell no. Is it the root of all evil? Not at all. It's just different.

But all things change with time. After the *****, you really didn't see Clanners squaring off against their foes in one-on-one honorable combat. Instead, they just maul your *** with maximum lethality. So enjoy that scary, scary thought. The Clan Invasion was them hitting the Inner Sphere on easy mode.

I love the Clans. I love the idea of dedicating yourself to something so completely that you would literally fall on your own sword for it. I love it in the same way that I respect Bushido. There is a reason you don't ever accuse a Clan Warrior of having no spirit... at least not more than once! They have a love - no, a lust for life and accomplishment. They live and are content only if they are moving toward their objective. They love their language and hold it sacred (yes, I'm a sap for the spoken word). And to them, words mean something. A Clanner will only ever say what he or she means... and they will mean what they say. No fluff. No smoke. No deception. What you see is what you get.

The way it should be.

This post sums my thoughts pretty well.

I do not know enough about the individual clans and whatnot, but I do appreciate the dedicated ideals of the Clans. Especially the Wardens who, as I understand, protect the IS as LSDF would but only outside IS's problematic decision making and bureaucracy.

The talk about Clans being bigots just enforcing their ideals on everyone else (i.e IS) often forgets that probably the IS would do the same (heck, even Houses inside IS would) if they had the capability to do so. It is just a matter of perspective.

I don't argue that Clans are perfect, far from it, but it is a refreshing thought about an alternative functional society that actually seems somewhat plausible.
Finding about the Clans society was really an eye opener as it made me wonder about organized societies in general back in the day. Thoughts quickly rose about what is a good society? IS? Clans? something in between? or something completely different from the two?

[Ken Fury]

Ashla Mason, on 28 January 2013 - 12:08 PM, said:

1)There is nothing to suggest that there were any tetatae that were more advanced.

There was no suggestion that there were any Clans during the time when Battletech first appeared. The absence of a proof doesn't make it impossible. It's not likely, but it's also not very likely that 2 Jumpships misjump to the exact same location.

[Reverend]

2ndLtSnafu, on 28 January 2013 - 12:10 PM, said:

This post sums my thoughts pretty well.

I do not know enough about the individual clans and whatnot, but I do appreciate the dedicated ideals of the Clans. Especially the Wardens who, as I understand, protect the IS as LSDF would but only outside IS's problematic decision making and bureaucracy.

The talk about Clans being bigots just enforcing their ideals on everyone else (i.e IS) often forgets that probably the IS would do the same (heck, even Houses inside IS would) if they had the capability to do so. It is just a matter of perspective.

I don't argue that Clans are perfect, far from it, but it is a refreshing thought about an alternative functional society that actually seems somewhat plausible.
Finding about the Clans society was really an eye opener as it made me wonder about organized societies in general back in the day. Thoughts quickly rose about what is a good society? IS? Clans? something in between? or something completely different from the two?

Yes a society where sleeping with ones sister is a fantastic society.

[Rannos]

Yes which is a better society an oppressive feudal society or literal **** germany or something inbetween?

[Tetatae Squawkins]

Wait a minute. This isn't Robotech?

[Reverend]

crabcakes66, on 28 January 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

Wait a minute. This isn't Robotech?

We only stole how many designs from it? I swore we were playing it.

[fil5000]

Wait, I thought this was a gundam game! I AM LEAVING!

<hurls papers around, storms out>

[Ken Fury]

fil5000, on 28 January 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

Wait, I thought this was a gundam game! I AM LEAVING!

<hurls papers around, storms out>

I think everyone is waiting for the Officer Pod Mk. II (aka Mad Cat). That's another reason I like the Clans, the Mad Cat is an extremely cool design. Though I'd wish for all the Robotech stuff like the Rifleman and Warhammer.

[fil5000]

Tank Boy Ken, on 28 January 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

I think everyone is waiting for the Officer Pod Mk. II (aka Mad Cat). That's another reason I like the Clans, the Mad Cat is an extremely cool design. Though I'd wish for all the Robotech stuff like the Rifleman and Warhammer.

I like the clans because I think a society based entirely around the best fighting people being in charge of everything makes total sense. Also ******.

Edit: ahahha in cest is censored ahahahahah **** you clanners.

Edited by fil5000, 28 January 2013 - 12:26 PM.

[Ter Ushaka]

Nothing can go wrong if a person with zero sense of leadership becomes leader because they can shoot better gooder than someone.

[ElLocoMarko]

For me: real double heatsinks.

[qultar]

fil5000, on 28 January 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

I like the clans because I think a society based entirely around the best fighting people being in charge of everything makes total sense. Also ******.

Edit: ahahha in cest is censored ahahahahah **** you clanners.

compared to the real world were the best lairs and cheats run things?

think the way you guys talk about sister love makes me wonder
dose thou protest to much?

[Ter Ushaka]

I hope this thread understands if clans were a real thing you'd all be slaves in their system. Because it smells like a renfaire in here.

[fil5000]

qultar, on 28 January 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

compared to the real world were the best lairs and cheats run things?

think the way you guys talk about sister love makes me wonder
dose thou protest to much?

Also clanners cannot spell or use shift keys.

[qultar]

Ter Ushaka, on 28 January 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

I hope this thread understands if clans were a real thing you'd all be slaves in their system. Because it smells like a renfaire in here.

if i was in Clan Ghost Bear being a member of any the casts is fine
now the other clans not so good i been told the wolfs are ok

[Ken Fury]

fil5000, on 28 January 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

Also clanners cannot spell or use shift keys.

Shift Keys are sacred SLDF stuff and thus need to be admired NOT used up.