457 replies to this topic

[Pariah Devalis]

Gammanoob:

It is precisely because they tend to intentionally over exaggerate things to the point of absurdity. The interesting thing is, Goons do their research. I give them props for being able to stitch together an almost believable argument on subjects they do not really give two squawks about but know it can get a rise out of people. In a way, it is an art, though one that steeps anything they say in enough uncertainty of motive to be highly skeptical of anything they say.

Understandably they tend to get under peoples' skin and will be discounted by others who understand that is their entire purpose fairly quickly.

[Ken Fury]

Well actually I've been playing Battletech since I was 14 (that was more than one Decade ago), and also played a lot of Mechwarrior Games, a lot of other Goons did that too. I still remember all TT Level 1 rules/weapon stats (I'll probably get made fun of that hrhr).

You might want to read this thread in our home: http://forums.someth...hreadid=3383329
This Thread has been going for over 2 years and has over 35,000 replies.

The difference is, that we don't take BT Lore serious, because it's the Space 80s, the whole BT stuff is Comedy Gold. And if people pretend that BT is the best serious Sci-Fi ever and the Clans the best and ultimate Utopia, well...

Edited by Tank Boy Ken, 29 January 2013 - 01:42 PM.

[fil5000]

Pariah Devalis, on 29 January 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

Gammanoob:

It is precisely because they tend to intentionally over exaggerate things to the point of absurdity. The interesting thing is, Goons do their research. I give them props for being able to stitch together an almost believable argument on subjects they do not really give two squawks about but know it can get a rise out of people. In a way, it is an art, though one that steeps anything they say in enough uncertainty of motive to be highly skeptical of anything they say.

Understandably they tend to get under peoples' skin and will be discounted by others who understand that is their entire purpose fairly quickly.

For clarity, what's the "almost" believable part of the argument that clanners are incestuous xenophobes with a fascistic society designed entirely around the prosecution of war? I'd be interested to see any textual evidence that they're anything other than that. I accept that there is a window dressing of MY HOUNOURE!! that is used in some way to defend or excuse the existence of this uniquely horrible system that one poster in here has likened to the Indian caste system as though that somehow makes it a good thing.

[Pariah Devalis]

I was specifically thinking of the space **** comparison which is an obvious jab to get a strong reaction. The gene preferences part, sure, to a far lesser extent (as it isn't the gene makeup of a single set of phenotypes, but a collection of various individuals with very different genes), but the ******** of a specific race of peoples is a bit iffy. I will grant you it is possible to point to Clan Wolverine as an example of that, but at the same time one can argue they were part of the same people who just happened to have the unfortunate honor of being chosen for annihilation. Other then that, there is no religious cleansing going on, which makes it a dubious statement that the clans are space Nazis.

In any case, the argument of them being space Nazis is silly given the entire universe is nothing but **** Germany, Stalin's Russia, and North Korea, with a Mary Sue faction thrown in on both sides of the Clan/IS debate.

As for the ******, I don't think anyone can argue against that, entirely. The best anyone could say against that is since they do not have real mothers, they are siblings strictly genetically. Even that does not really explain that away entirely. It gets whitewashed with the additional excuse that trueborns, or at least FEMALE trueborns, are by default sterile so long as they are not injected with a drug that activates their reproductive system, meaning no three headed offspring. I have no idea if the males are sterile by default as well, actually.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 29 January 2013 - 03:02 PM.

[IceSerpent]

Gammanoob, on 29 January 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

I find it odd, how people are attacking the goons for being goons when the arguments they are using are not noticeably poorer or more biased than any other posts in this thread.

It has nothing to do with arguments or lack of such - goons are very fond of messing with other people just for the sake of getting attention. Pretty much the only thing they do in any game is troll forums and (if possible) exploit the game mechanics in a way that would annoy others, even when such an exploit gives them no apparent in-game advantage. So nobody really takes them seriously, trolls will be trolls and all that.

[fil5000]

It's funny though, people are right in saying that if you ignore us we give up and get bored and go and do something else. But there's so many people that seem incapable of doing so.

[Redacted]

Edited by Niko Snow, 01 February 2013 - 11:18 AM.

[Void Angel]

Pariah Devalis, on 29 January 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

I was specifically thinking of the space **** comparison which is an obvious jab to get a strong reaction. The gene preferences part, sure, to a far lesser extent (as it isn't the gene makeup of a single set of phenotypes, but a collection of various individuals with very different genes), but the ******** of a specific race of peoples is a bit iffy. I will grant you it is possible to point to Clan Wolverine as an example of that, but at the same time one can argue they were part of the same people who just happened to have the unfortunate honor of being chosen for annihilation. Other then that, there is no religious cleansing going on, which makes it a dubious statement that the clans are space Nazis.

... I think that was me, and I'm not a Goon. Well, I said "fascists," and pointed out that there are important similarities between the rational for the Nazis' politics and the Clans - namely the adoption of eugenics and the orientation of the cultural focus on an external threat for war. It might be that you're referring to one of the troll posts I just skimmed over. =)

[Gremlich Johns]

Rhenis, on 24 January 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

The Clans repulse me.

Didn't you guys talking bad about the Clans read the original question? The question was "Why do people like the Clans" not "why do people despise the clans".

With the Clans in charge, ALL of the citizens of the Inner Sphere will become literate.....

If you are a naysayer, keep your opinions to yourself. You are just trolls otherwise.

[Gammanoob]

Pariah Devalis, on 29 January 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

Gammanoob:

It is precisely because they tend to intentionally over exaggerate things to the point of absurdity. The interesting thing is, Goons do their research. I give them props for being able to stitch together an almost believable argument on subjects they do not really give two squawks about but know it can get a rise out of people. In a way, it is an art, though one that steeps anything they say in enough uncertainty of motive to be highly skeptical of anything they say.

Understandably they tend to get under peoples' skin and will be discounted by others who understand that is their entire purpose fairly quickly.

My problem is that everyone does that in this thread.

Both those for and against the clans go through cannon cherry picking arguments that support their idea.

Irregardless of the reputation of the Goons it is pretty silly to argue that they have any less right to post here or that any arguments they propose are less valid because of a supposed motivation behind their posts.

I mean should I ignore your posts or those of anyone else identifying with the Clans simply because you might be biased towards them or because you will probably try to support or defend them in an argument?

Edited by Gammanoob, 29 January 2013 - 03:41 PM.

[Void Angel]

Gremlich Johns, on 29 January 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:

With the Clans in charge, ALL of the citizens of the Inner Sphere will become literate.....

Unless you're a "freebirth." Then we'll just pretend to teach you how to read while we sabotage every step of your education in order to reinforce our genetic superiority.

[fil5000]

Pariah Devalis, on 29 January 2013 - 03:24 PM, said:

[REDACTED]

Look man, I don't make the rules here. Me goon, you non goon, you're required to attack me online regardless of what I'm saying or whether it makes sense. No forming an opinion based on what I actually say, you have to base it on what you heard a goon once did to a person you know who's brother plays EvE.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 30 January 2013 - 08:53 PM.
edited quote

[Pariah Devalis]

Pft. But everyone knows EvE players are just failed small business owners and people who get a hard on for stock exchanges! Who would take any of them seriously? Amirite?

[n0e]

I heard it's a good time to invest into SRMs, dont invest into LRMs the PPC patch wont be helping a lot so there is only minor profit.

You can make some bucks with the PPC. A lot will try them out, so there is a market. Especially if the new hero Awesome has a lot of energy hardpoints.

Edited by n0e, 29 January 2013 - 04:41 PM.

[Wales Grey]

Pariah Devalis, on 29 January 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

Pft. But everyone knows EvE players are just failed small business owners and people who get a hard on for stock exchanges! Who would take any of them seriously? Amirite?

It's EVE. Not EvE. EVE. It's not an acronym for "Everyone versus Everyone" or whatever. It's clean. Simple. One word. Like *******.

EVE.

(EVE is a bad game)

edit:
Who what why is M a d d o n a censored?

Edited by Wales Grey, 30 January 2013 - 11:43 AM.

[Strum Wealh]

Pariah Devalis, on 29 January 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

As for the ******, I don't think anyone can argue against that, entirely. The best anyone could say against that is since they do not have real mothers, they are siblings strictly genetically. Even that does not really explain that away entirely. It gets whitewashed with the additional excuse that trueborns, or at least FEMALE trueborns, are by default sterile so long as they are not injected with a drug that activates their reproductive system, meaning no three headed offspring. I have no idea if the males are sterile by default as well, actually.

A minor point on that - it's not that they're sterile by default, but that "both males and females received long-term contraceptive implants while infants".

This is explicitly stated in the Dark Age novel Flight of the Falcon, in reference to how "among the Clans sexual liaisons between sibkin were not remarkable and were not discouraged" and the (extra-close and extra-skeezy) relationship between sibkin Aleksandr Hazen and Malvina Hazen (the only two of their sibko to survive to maturity, and who actually referred to each other as "brother" and "sister").

Though, Warriors of Kerensky states that "Despite advances in genetic screening, the Clans still retain a form of ****** taboo. Clan law discourages the combining of genes from closely relater warriors, usually taken to be within three generations."
So, what does that make of Diana Pryde?

[CG Oglethorpe Kerensky]

Ter Ushaka, on 28 January 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

I hope this thread understands if clans were a real thing you'd all be slaves in their system. Because it smells like a renfaire in here.

Most people in this thread are not ready to grasp that concept, they are still on their way to be millionaires and rock stars.
If you we're a clanner, you would almost certainly be a laborer, and you would never ever be able to change it.

Eventually most will figure out that it mirrors life in that only a tiny percentage of the clan population are warriors and then only a small percentage of them have any real power. And how many of those warriors in charge and are making decisions have a strong background in economics or social policy? What do you think a Smoke Jaguar ilKhan would think of a proposal to improve infrastructure on a world by expanding bridges and revamping a sewer system?

The ones in charge of everything only know how to destroy and kill.
It boggles the mind how their society has even survived.

[Stormwolf]

CG Oglethorpe Kerensky, on 30 January 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

And how many of those warriors in charge and are making decisions have a strong background in economics or social policy?

Quite a number actually, Ulric Kerensky and every single Sea Fox/Diamond Shark Khan come to mind.
There is a bit more to the Clans then all the stereotypes people love to cling to. Sure there's a ton of unrealistic stuff, but the same can be said about ever faction in the game, but that's the fun part of the setting.


Sorry that I interrupted the Clan bashing, please continue.

[Ken Fury]

Stormwolf, on 30 January 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

... Sure there's a ton of unrealistic stuff, ...

This

[Reverend]

Why would people love a fictional society where having physical relations with your SIBLING is acceptable? Are we suddenly in Alabama?

[MechWarrior071507]

Reverend, on 30 January 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

Why would people love a fictional society where having physical relations with your SIBLING is acceptable? Are we suddenly in Alabama?

hey, if its legal, dont knock it. Leave your PC mindless sheeple zombi mode at the door.