457 replies to this topic

[Woky]

They are a good idea gone horribly wrong, 'sort of' like the original iterations of communism. They wanted to remove the politics and back door scams from warfare, but instead they made warfare into politics. If you read the novels, you see that many clan warriors truly do fight with a sense of honor, and even fully believe in their goals. This is because they don't view the world the same way. I can see how people from an rp perspective can get behind the idea of them fighting for the honor of their clan and such.

For me from an 'rp' perspective its about why you fight. People from the inner sphere are incredibly diverse in this. We have pirates who are high tech criminals, right where you would expect them to be as bad guys and noble defender stereo typed house troops on the other end of the spectrum. We also have the diversity where you see mercenary units like the Gray Death Legion or the Eridani Light Horse who lay everything on the line to protect an ideal or their homes, countered by some house troops who fight for greed and power like the 4th Skye Guard in the Free Skye Movement.

The best facet of this is that like the clans its all a matter of perspective. If you had read the Jade Phoenix Trilogy first as your intro to battletech, then you may play the clans as the good guys trying to fix a broken and corrupt inner sphere.

[Stormwolf]

Woky, on 29 November 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

The best facet of this is that like the clans its all a matter of perspective. If you had read the Jade Phoenix Trilogy first as your intro to battletech, then you may play the clans as the good guys trying to fix a broken and corrupt inner sphere.

Loved those novels, this particular bit comes to mind after reading your post:

Quote

So what could Joanna do but perform her appointed task as well as possible? There was at least some service in it, especially the job of whipping into shape an undisciplined group like the new lot they had saddled her with this time. Like all Clan warriors, Joanna was committed to the goals of the Inner Sphere invasion, especially the dream of restoring the Star League. It was the Clans' almost sacred covenant that they would conquer and replace the corrupt, decadent governments that had destroyed the Star League centuries before. That was the word of the great Kerenskys, which was good enough for Joanna and nearly all the rest of the invading force.

[Impossible Wasabi]

The Space Pope loves all peoples equally, though he finds the Clans are often wayward in their ideals and actions he forgives them for they often do not know better.

Though, before he is accused the Space Pope is also often saddened by the state of the IS, particularly their greed and corruption.

Which is why the Space Vatican remains a neutral party and strives for intergalactic peace, as opposed to petty disputes over territory, money or salvage.

Edited by Merlevade, 30 November 2012 - 07:35 AM.

[dal10]

the normal catholic church in BT lore is still based in rome...

[boah]

Deedsie, on 26 November 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

For the most part, I don't. I don't even like their omnimech designs except for the Warhawk. I DO like their weapons and their second-line units like the Highlander IIC and Stone Rhino.

I have to agree I do like some of the Omni's as well

[dal10]

Merlevade, on 30 November 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

[REDACTED CONTENT]

they would say your space vatican is just as false. now we have 3 popes excommunicating each other.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 07 December 2012 - 05:17 PM.
edited quote

[Impossible Wasabi]

The words of heretics and false prophets do not move us.

For lo' we go with God.

However, the Space Pope would like to point out that the other two pope's being already excommunicated have no authority to excommunicate the Space Pope as they are already suspended from the truth faith.

Edited by Merlevade, 30 November 2012 - 08:23 AM.

[dal10]

yet their followers would follow them, not you. so no catholic davies or really any catholics would support your space church.

^this is off topic to the nth degree...

Edited by dal10, 30 November 2012 - 08:24 AM.

[Impossible Wasabi]

The Space Pope is above topics.

He can also happily state that he has the support of millions of Catholics in regards to his endeavors.

[dal10]

except for any davies, and most of the rest of the church. which would be in the billions.

[Impossible Wasabi]

The Space Pope believes in quality as opposed to quantity.

Edited by Merlevade, 30 November 2012 - 08:44 AM.

[Sayyid]

I couldnt get into the clans even when I was young (teens). But I had a harsh introduction to the clans, it was 1990 when a local Fasa rep, held a game for 12 players to "test" out new tech and rules in a game against him and 4 other reps/GMs. They ran 5 Clan mechs, and they DESTROYED the 12 of us. They had special print 3050 tech readouts that had the clan stuff ommited.

I have hated the clans ever since.

I started playing Battletech back in 1984, I was a bigger fan of Aerotech because I loved flying, and still do. But played Battletech more because more people played it. I fell in love with the DCMS (Kurita) because of the faction history, story, and fluff. But I also liked the FWL (Marik), but couldnt bring myself to leave the DCMS.

[Joanna Conners]

GabrielKnight, on 26 November 2012 - 10:28 AM, said:

There was a time in my wayward youth when I was a Clanner at heart, but after a few years away from Battletech I've come back to this game and frankly...the clans repulse me. Institutionalised racism, caste based society, eugenics, disregard for sound military tactics... No thanks.
I'd rather be freebirth scum these days! Maybe I've grown up a bit.
What draws you to the Clan way?

Disclaimer: This is meant to be a lighthearted post. Please don't degenerate into flames.

I like them because they represent the ultimate challenge to fight.

When I do play as a Clanswoman, I'm not concerned about how unjust or immoral my society and culture are; I'm focused on single combat and honor. It's how the warriors ignore the larger concerns of their people. They're brainwashed honor seekers. No different than the Samurai or Knights of Europe. There's a glaring hypocrisy and double standard, but it doesn't matter to those suckered in as long as they believe in the cause.

The Clans are a brilliant edition to the universe and I can't imagine it without them.

[Gremlich Johns]

GabrielKnight, on 26 November 2012 - 10:28 AM, said:

Disclaimer: This is meant to be a lighthearted post. Please don't degenerate into flames.

Passive aggressive BS platitude, like putting LOL at the end of a left handed compliment. There is nothing lighthearted about what you wrote.

[Joanna Conners]

Gremlich Johns, on 01 December 2012 - 01:07 PM, said:

Passive aggressive BS platitude, like putting LOL at the end of a left handed compliment. There is nothing lighthearted about what you wrote.

Don't mind him, Gabriel. He yells at anyone who isn't a Clan fanboy.

[Gremlich Johns]

Demona, on 01 December 2012 - 02:01 PM, said:

Don't mind him, Gabriel. He yells at anyone who isn't a Clan fanboy.

That isn't it, I will take exception at anyone who reacts from a purely emotional point of view without considering the rational informed argument. If you have an opinion which might be considered contrary, support it with well researched and presented facts. Arguments like "The majority of the player base prefers third person view and if you don't believe me then you're wrong. LOL" are what we find from clan non-fans.

People can be anti-clan all they want, but they should also accept the fact that they are a significant aspect of the BT lore and Canon and discuss the matter from a more considered point of view, not with statements like "because they suck that's why". Let's have some didactic flagellation about this topic!!

Both sides see the other thus....

“Ignorance, you see, can be out thought. Arrogance can be outmaneuvered. But ignorance and arrogance combined are unassailable.” — Londo Mollari, “In the Beginning” by Peter David (Babylon 5)

And as far as the Clan Warden and Crusader BS goes, as a long time Blood Spirit "fan-boy", the current (and small) touman believe "Neither Warden nor Crusader, We are Clan." Of course, we do not hold with the Dark Age and ***** fictions, despite it being considered Canon. We would have written the subsequent fiction quite differently.

[Joanna Conners]

Gremlich Johns, on 01 December 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

That isn't it, I will take exception at anyone who reacts from a purely emotional point of view without considering the rational informed argument. If you have an opinion which might be considered contrary, support it with well researched and presented facts. Arguments like "The majority of the player base prefers third person view and if you don't believe me then you're wrong. LOL" are what we find from clan non-fans.

People can be anti-clan all they want, but they should also accept the fact that they are a significant aspect of the BT lore and Canon and discuss the matter from a more considered point of view, not with statements like "because they suck that's why". Let's have some didactic flagellation about this topic!!

Both sides see the other thus....

“Ignorance, you see, can be out thought. Arrogance can be outmaneuvered. But ignorance and arrogance combined are unassailable.” — Londo Mollari, “In the Beginning” by Peter David (Babylon 5)

And as far as the Clan Warden and Crusader BS goes, as a long time Blood Spirit "fan-boy", the current (and small) touman believe "Neither Warden nor Crusader, We are Clan." Of course, we do not hold with the Dark Age and ***** fictions, despite it being considered Canon. We would have written the subsequent fiction quite differently.

Thank you for the thoughtful response, Johns. I had grown accustomed to anticipate friction between us. Perhaps there is hope for us yet.

[Damion Wolf]

Gremlich Johns, on 01 December 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

"Neither Warden nor Crusader, We are Clan."

Oh, wow. I thought I was the only one who liked Clan Blood Spirit. That really is a tragic story. I loved the ideals of their founding and am sad at how they were taken advantage of so brutally. They really did embody the spirit of the Clans until their own kinsmen ground it out of them.

I guess that's why some people stand by the renegade for life motto.

I am a Clan fanboy. I am a BattleTech fanboy. Hell, I'm even a Victor Fan boy. For what PGI has given us, I am even a MW:O fanboy. Whiners can deal with it.

Demona, I do understand your view and I appreciate it. I, too, could not imagine BattleTech without the invasion - and not just because of my Clan leanings. You also saw a multitude of things happen in the Inner Sphere in response to it. The saga of the Wolf Dragoons, the recreation of the Star League, the involvement of Foct, Comstar, Victor and all of the major players. I especially enjoyed seeing the gobetween with Hanse Davion and Theadore Kurita. Call me a sucker, but I love that desperate underdog stuff. The Invasion just seemed to bring out the best of the universe, one of the three greatest events in my humble opinion (the Fourth Succession War and the FedCom Civil War being the other two; I lump the counter attack against the clans in with the Invasion).

Every story needs its heroes and villians - and every villian is a hero to somebody. BattleTech does a good job of showing all sides of an argument in the fluff. About the only real villians I can remember were Archon Katherine, Primus Myndo Waterly (crazy as they come) and Word of Blake. All sides have the good with the bad and thankfully most of it is incredibly interesting.


Gremlich Johns, much respect to you for that last post of yours.

[Landeraxe]

Viper69, on 26 November 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

Their power, period. Everything they have is better in every way. That is what draws people. If they say otherwise they are fibbing .

This is, ultimately, what turns me off to the clans. We had a healthy (unhealthy?) dose of RPG in our Battletech/Mechwarrior games, and then came the clans. All of a sudden, it was all anyone wanted to play.
If the only reason you like something is mechanical superiority, then your RP goes straight to hell. That bias has stuck with me, and I still can't abide clanners.

That said, I picked Wolf's Dragoons when Battletech TT came out, and their story unfolded nicely into a clan-based thing. So if I had to have a reason to like anything clan, it would have to do with the Wolf's Dragoons.

[Landeraxe]

Gremlich Johns, on 01 December 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

And as far as the Clan Warden and Crusader BS goes, as a long time Blood Spirit "fan-boy", the current (and small) touman believe "Neither Warden nor Crusader, We are Clan." Of course, we do not hold with the Dark Age and ***** fictions, despite it being considered Canon. We would have written the subsequent fiction quite differently.

I'm glad you called yourself a fanboy; means we don't have to.

That said, I'm totally a BT fanboy in whole (yes, including the clans). I just prefer to play IS. Roots, I guess.

Edited by Landeraxe, 07 December 2012 - 12:27 PM.