457 replies to this topic

[Inappropriate1191]

GabrielKnight, on 26 November 2012 - 10:28 AM, said:

There was a time in my wayward youth when I was a Clanner at heart, but after a few years away from Battletech I've come back to this game and frankly...the clans repulse me. Institutionalised racism, caste based society, eugenics, disregard for sound military tactics... No thanks.
I'd rather be freebirth scum these days! Maybe I've grown up a bit.
What draws you to the Clan way?

Disclaimer: This is meant to be a lighthearted post. Please don't degenerate into flames.

I like clan tech and omnimechs, and... that's about it. The more I read on the clan, the more I despise them. I also can't help but to chafe at clan fans a bit, simply because of the kind of personality that's attracted to that. Usually someone indoctrinated into some notion of a 'greater good' but doesn't have a grasp of what that greater good will cost. Much like this one Down's Syndrome, abortion survivor (Seriously, I can't say '1D10T' on these forums?) here...

H8Bitter, on 26 November 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:

The fact that skill is valued over wealth, is all i need to verify where my allegiance lies.
To the untrianed eye the clanner structure may seem like a totalitarian society, I however much prefer that strict ruleset over easily corruptable systems of power.
In real world terms, Id rather live under a vicious dictator that forbid rock n roll, than have to bear witness to the increasingly stupid masses yammering on about how free they are while enclosed in their cubicles worshipping paper notes.

The IS factions, as USA-grade ret.ar.ded that they are, at least don't live under the delusions of a kinder, gentler tyranny that somehow manages to also maintain the Spartan way (Also note, I detest the Spartan civilization, and all fanboys of said culture). Of course, there's also the horrible, crappy leadership of the clans, and how they maintain a Geneva/UN-like way of trying to pretty up warfare. It's like how the politically-correct fascists think that you can somehow polish a tu.rd (Seriously?) and turn it into gold.

No, the only good thing about the clannerscum is the fact that I take my atlas, smash an omnimech or two, and steal it's parts. An atlas with endosteel, Clan XL engine, all-Clan weapons, and clan rig? Something to be feared.

Edit: I had to go back and make a lot of words look pretty dumb because someone put a kindergarten-grade censorship program in the forums. Jesus Christ, Mohammad, and Buddha.

Edited by FU2, 08 December 2012 - 09:02 PM.

[NewBegining]

Hey , i fun of clan tech too , i start playing mech games by the merchenaries and i win the clans bat steal some nice mech from them xexe .Their heavy scouts is the best , some heavys also is nice (the cat like) and best of all their mods in weapons.Why we cant do a mod in weapon only the clans can do ? Thats all hope some day see some clan tech in game xexe...

[Damion Wolf]

FU2, on 08 December 2012 - 08:58 PM, said:

Yeah, I'm not sure you're talking about the same Clans that we are.

[GeneralMartok83]

Oh I LOVE the clans...especially the part where I rip their super effective weapons off their burnt and cored mechs and install them on mine

Edited by GeneralMartok83, 09 December 2012 - 03:05 PM.

[GeneralMartok83]

Talk about your Clan "honor" all you want, just be sure to clearly explain it to Star Captain Trent...

[Stanton Langley]

I wouldn't mind playing Clans with Dark Age tech, where they are on roughly equal footing with IS. I really like the legacy of Kerensky. I also really like Wolf's Dragoons, and wouldn't mind playing them either. The story really hooked me when I was younger, and I thought Phelan Kell's rise in Clan Wolf was fun to read about. I also really like Houses Kurita and Davion (despite, or perhaps because of their history against each other), so maybe the lore is just a big draw for me personally.

[SilverKnight]

The purest sense of the word on why people like the clans is a mix of Mech designs that people find visually appealing, and their history. The Arrival of the clans gave MechWarriors in the games something 'new' to do. instead of fighting the same enemies - now you introduced a new foe with different designs, different goals and a 'alien' culture. People who cling to the Clans as being superior are ignoring the fact that by the time of the Jihad the IS and the Clans were on even footing. By the end of the Jihad they are on equal footing.

I agree with a number of people on the Clans being a horrible idea and the fact that people 'like them' as just plain wrong.
I submit Clan Nova Cat, Ghost Bear, Diamond shark and Wolf In Exile as exceptions.

They don't cleave to blindness and absolutely punish stupidity. In other words: They've stepped beyond clan strictures and venerate individuals based on their Merits. you don't have to be a Trueborn in either of their clans to end up a Mechwarrior, Merchant, Scientists or even a Laboror. diamond shark understands that Economy is King. Without it? your a bunch of cavemen, and if you screw with it, don't expect that pretty shiny Mech to get the best work it could.

Now. I also don't attempt to say I am a expert on mechwarrior or battletech. I'm gonna be honest though. The clans. to quite a friend, are mostly 'brute force and ignorance'. They're neither wanted nor needed in the IS and only a group of people with nothing more than delusions of being superior (which the clans aren't...As was proven by Tukayyid, Operation: Bulldog....Etc etc...) would attempt. Benevolent Tyranny is still Tyranny. And a chaste based society breeds Arrogance, Egoism and stagnation amongst the 'elites' which eventually leads to open revolts and downfall. I call it the 'Spartan Complex'.

Edit: fixed some spelling mistakes.

Edited by SilverKnight, 09 December 2012 - 06:49 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

GeneralMartok83, on 09 December 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

Talk about your Clan "honor" all you want, just be sure to clearly explain it to Star Captain Trent...

...who had no conflict to or from Clan Nova Cat who assisted in the Trial of Annihilation of Clan Smoke Jaguar. The Jags are about the only clan I despise more then the Falcons post Martha Pryde's Khanship (aka: when the birds flew into the cuckoo's nest). They were particularly brutal - one could say wastefully so - and reminded me very much of a rabid dog that needed to be put down, regardless of the reasons assigned to it.

Granted, I might be biased, seeing as I threw my chips into the Nova Cat loyalty program. Yet, even then, I find the genesis of hate between the two clans an interesting twist on Romeo and Juliette, if one cares to read it.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 09 December 2012 - 10:43 PM.

[LynxFury]

For me it's simple. Most of the best looking mechs in CBT are clan and more realistic for combat being lower to the ground with a lots of their firepower at or just above eye level. Omni mechs such as the linebacker, mad dog,, black lanner and of course the shadow cat share this. Only a few of the older SLDF have this trait such as the champion--a bit later the IS develops a bit more combat ready looking mechs such as the bushwacker. Maximum firepower with minimum exposure translate into actual success in battle such as the caustic cross crater snipe engagements, or those night long range thermal fights.

[Utilyan]

I love the clans because they always and never fail to remind me that I was just a Freebirth. Always look down on, no pats on the back, no certificates, no acknowledgments nothing for you to lean on for confidence.

The fact is I always WANTED a Timber Wolf and wanted to be a Wolf, but I only pilot a Mad Dog and I will only be a Dog.

So a when clans come im gonna pilot a Mad Dog. I'll always keep the wolf as the mech your sopose to "want" and never get. Even the cover mechwarrior 2 is a timberwolf, but the heart of it was a mad dog (vulture).

[Joanna Conners]

Damion Wolf, on 07 December 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

Oh, wow. I thought I was the only one who liked Clan Blood Spirit. That really is a tragic story. I loved the ideals of their founding and am sad at how they were taken advantage of so brutally. They really did embody the spirit of the Clans until their own kinsmen ground it out of them.

I guess that's why some people stand by the renegade for life motto.

I am a Clan fanboy. I am a BattleTech fanboy. Hell, I'm even a Victor Fan boy. For what PGI has given us, I am even a MW:O fanboy. Whiners can deal with it.

Demona, I do understand your view and I appreciate it. I, too, could not imagine BattleTech without the invasion - and not just because of my Clan leanings. You also saw a multitude of things happen in the Inner Sphere in response to it. The saga of the Wolf Dragoons, the recreation of the Star League, the involvement of Foct, Comstar, Victor and all of the major players. I especially enjoyed seeing the gobetween with Hanse Davion and Theadore Kurita. Call me a sucker, but I love that desperate underdog stuff. The Invasion just seemed to bring out the best of the universe, one of the three greatest events in my humble opinion (the Fourth Succession War and the FedCom Civil War being the other two; I lump the counter attack against the clans in with the Invasion).

Every story needs its heroes and villians - and every villian is a hero to somebody. BattleTech does a good job of showing all sides of an argument in the fluff. About the only real villians I can remember were Archon Katherine, Primus Myndo Waterly (crazy as they come) and Word of Blake. All sides have the good with the bad and thankfully most of it is incredibly interesting.


Gremlich Johns, much respect to you for that last post of yours.

Brilliant post and I love that meme. I'm a fan of the original and seeing it in BT form made me laugh my pants off. Kudos.

[Damion Wolf]

SilverKnight, on 09 December 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

The clans. to quite a friend, are mostly 'brute force and ignorance'. They're neither wanted nor needed in the IS and only a group of people with nothing more than delusions of being superior

While it may be unfair to quote this snippet out of the rest of your post, I believe it stands in well for the point I am trying to make. The point being; you could apply that comment, and much of your post describing your view on the Clans, to just about any faction in the Inner Sphere. The Clans do not have a monopolly on delusions of grandure and are not the only ones who cling blindly to their beliefs.

Most people who really have a reason to like the Clans already know what their shortcomings are. Not only that, but they know how those "flaws" are looked upon from both sides. Clanners are, on a social level, much more simple to understand once you get past the major hurtle about them being different. Most of this has already been touched upon in previous posts, so I won't take up more space by revisiting it.

If you want a good example at a different flavor of the same thing (and I know there are some who will flay me for saying this) but look at House Liao. Few examples of blindly clinging to one's beliefs with brutal ignorance are as telling as theirs. From a Davion perspective, House Kurita is every bit as opressive and short-sighted as House Liao. If you flip that around then House Liao and Kurita have plenty of reasons to see the Federated Commonwealth as unprovocated aggressors and bombastic blowhards riding in on their shining horse of self riteouness.

It all depends on what perspective you're looking at it from.


Replies!

My pleasure, Demona. Thank you kindly.

The Crew, I am glad I could help. There are others who know a lot more than I do (or haven't forgotten nearly as much as I have) but if you or anybody else ever has any questions, I'll be glad to answer them.

[BoerInBeton]

Lots of interesting reading. At the very least I am learning a lot of BT lore. And please do not misunderstand me. I would never advocate removing the Clans from the backstory. That would be like Warhammer without Chaos. :-) Will write more when I get home from work!

[qultar]

also in the clans the breeding program is for everyone not just trueborn
techs are mated with techs and labor with labor
with the idea that the next gen will be better then the last
this is why the labor cast are like US football players even the women

In the clans you do your job well you get more if you do not you get jack
for the most part the masses are happy there little time wasted on extras
that is not to say there no free time things to do for fun
the Clans know that to get the best from a worker they must be happy
they have TV shows, sports, art and LOTS of sex (to the clans its on the same level as shaking hands as long as there is no kids from it)
there no time wasted on stuff you do not need to know in school
once you hit 13 or so you are paired up and told to have lots of kids
the only down side is once your old and can not do your job you dead

As for "moving up" it can be done they test the kids early and often
if you test well or bad you mite be moved to a new cast to fit your skills
this is also true with trueborns if they fail there tests they are moved
the fact is were you are in the world is up to you and your breading
any member can become Khan if they are highly skilled
Yes a Freeborn has a harder time BUT as the rule stand it can happen
the same is true going the other way a lazy trueborn will be cast out
Now as for the IS if you are not in line to rule you can never move up
no matter how skilled you mite be you mite spend you life as a farmer

Also note once more some Clans are more open then others
keep in mind some even join IS groups at latter points

[Ghogiel]

Their mechs look cooler.

[Oskar]

I feel a strong affinity for the Warden Clans, who saw that their purpose was to protect the I.S. from outsiders. Clans like Wolf in Exile, Clan Ghost Bear, and Clan Coyote to name a few. They did not lose Kerensky's message, unlike the Crusader Clans, but this is just how I feel.
To the statements about the Clans not belonging, some of the Warden Clans have found life in the I.S. quite agreeable i.e. Clan Ghost Bears involvement in creating the Rasalhague Dominion.
I.S. Clans also value merit and skill and trueborn or freeborn have blurred.

Edited by Oskar, 13 December 2012 - 04:22 AM.

[Crusader Breen]

оригинал (original.)

Каждый воспринимает клан по-разному. Для того чтоб понять клан, нужно изучить их историю. Создание кланов, от куда эти кланы взялись и почему враждебно настроены против домов. Ведь и за пределами миров клана, не все так чисто! Дом Штайнера ненавидит Дом Девина, это тоже можно отнести к расовой ненависти. Клан, это идеальность, которую нужно понять, а говорить я вырос или не вырос, по вашему посту, вы не выросли, а наоборот, остались прежним, тем, кто не вник в суть создания кланов!

перевод гугл. (Google translation.)

Each takes a different clan. To understand the clan to study their history. Creation of clans, from where they come from and why clans hostile to the houses. After all, outside of the worlds of the clan, is not so clear! House Steiner House hates Devion, it can also be attributed to racial hatred. Clan, it is ideal that you want to understand, and I speak up or not grown, in your, you have not grown, but on the contrary, remained the same, those who are not going into the nature of a clan!

[Crusader Breen]

Ragor, on 26 November 2012 - 11:12 AM, said:

I had quite the same experience regarding my stance towards the clans like it was described in the OP.

And today?
For me personally there is nothing more disgusting like the clans.
They are a working society among themselves, there system works for them and they are happy.
Even the lower caste are quiet happy. Very important to understand, that they are born the way they are and clanners grew up and got educated the way the clans work.
So for the clanners, no matter what caste, all is fine and nifty.

Why do won't I ever follow their idiology?
Just for one very simple reason which is the basic of mature behaviour:
Respecting others and their opinion.
The clans get back to the Inner Sphere in order to save the Inner Sphere.
Because the Clans decided the Inner Sphere needs to be saved.
The Clans decided the social system of the Inner Sphere is not good.
The Clans decided that the Inner Sphere has to follow the Clan's idiology.

The Clans decided not to ask if there 'help' is wanted.

Comparsion on private level:
When my neighbour just kicks in my door, rapes my wife because he thinks she is unsatified, takes my kids away because he thinks they need a different education and burns down my house in the end because he is sure I'd prefer the flat he prepared for me - sorry, I won't say 'thank you for your help'.

Comparsion on a national level:
When one military forces decides to invade a country to force them to change the religion/way of life/political system it is an act of pure evil - they can call it as much as they want 'this is for the sake of the nation and its inhabitants', it will always be a stance I will never be ok with.


Nobody ever has the right to decide what is good for someone else.


The Inner Sphere might as borked as hell - but it is the Inner Sphere, with their own rules and way of life.
Nobody asked for the Clans or welcomed them - but they still went on.

oreginal.

Ragor, хватит жевать сопли, иди учи историю кланов! Без этой истории, твой пост, обычная болтовня, не имеющая цены!

Google translation
Ragor, enough to chew snot, history of the clan! Without this story, your post, the usual chatter that has no price!

[Vanguard319]

One more thing I like about the clans, You actually HAVE to prove you are worthy to lead, rather than be lucky enough to "know somebody". Also, the Clans value thier history, and even respect and honor thier worthy enemies. (Seriously, Tyra Miraborg, an IS pilot is immortalized in the Rememberance.)

[Will9761]

For me, its all about the Clan Tech. They have became a technological marvel ever since they came to the Inner Sphere. Now you see the Inner Sphere making their own Omnimechs and refitting there weapons with clan tech.

Edited by Will9761, 29 December 2012 - 05:24 PM.