457 replies to this topic

[Thorn Hallis]

Mein Stereotyp ist älter als Deiner.

[Livewyr]

if the IS had the shadowcat, I'd be IS.

Edited by Livewyr, 06 February 2013 - 11:07 AM.

[Natasha Kerensky]

Xeno Phalcon, on 05 February 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

I always liked them for much the same reasons I liked the draconis combine: great emphasis on "honor" (at least at this stage in the timeline of things) and their mech styles always appealed to me, but if I had to choose between the clans or DMCS I'd have to side with the dragon, mostly because the clans shun physical combat in mechs and damnit I want to decrapitate someone with a ten ton sword!

Don't talk to me about honor, Draconis Combine.

Unfortunately, the Dragoons earned the emnity of Kurita warlord Grieg Samsonov when Wolf rejected Samsonov's demand to give him direct command over the Dragoon units. Subsequently, Samsonov plotted against the Dragoons. Meanwhile, the Coordinator decreed that the Dragoons should assist in the creation of the Ryuken ("Dragon's Sword"), a group of 5 regiments trained and organized in the fashion of the Dragoons instead of traditional DCMS doctrine. Tetsuhara was given command of the Ryuken which allowed Samsonov to promote Jerry Akuma, incidentially an old enemy of Tetsuhara, to the position of liaison officer to the Dragoons in his stead. The good relationship between the Dragoons and their employer began to deteriorate.
In September 3026 a joint Dragoon/Ryuken assault took place on Barlow's End. When Tetsuhara was critically wounded in a hovercraft "accident" presumably arranged by Akuma, both he and Akuma were evacuated and replaced by Tai-sa Elijah Satoh who took command of both the Ryuken and the Dragoons. His incompetence, combined with abusive and unfair treatment of the mercenaries, turned the campaign into a disaster and estranged the Ryuken and Wolf's Dragoons. The Kurita attackers were pushed back by the defenders, namely the White Witches and the elite Eridani Light Horse. The blame for the defeat was laid at the feet of Wolf's Dragoons and Samsonov and Akuma then worked towards either gaining control of the Dragoons, or destroy them. To this end the Dragoons were ordered to deploy in several smaller units to weaken their strength, and were then harassed by oppressive bureaucracy and supply shortages. Eventually, they took to clandestine raids of Davion supply depots for supplies, without informing their employers.

Using these raids as a pretext, the Draconis Combine accused the Dragoons of breach of contract, followed by general anti-Dragoon propaganda, sabotage and engineered riots; the unit was also framed for alleged war crimes. To put further pressure on the Dragoons, Hephaestus, their space station orbiting their HQ world of An Ting, was captured by Kurita special forces masquerading as freedom fighters.
Finding themselves suddenly fighting an intense and taxing shadow war against their own employer for the second time, Jaime Wolf enacted a contingency plan that had been developed after the experience with Anton Marik. In a suicide mission, a small group of dedicated Dragoon soldiers and technicians fought their way into a HPG compound in Cerant, An Ting, on the night of January 3, 3028, and sent a coded message to the scattered Dragoon forces, ordering them to withdraw and regroup on the ice planet Misery.

I almost died because of this. ********...

Edited by Natasha Kerensky, 06 February 2013 - 11:51 AM.

[Gammanoob]

Pot, stop calling the kettle black.

[CG Oglethorpe Kerensky]

Lets backtrack a bit...

If Clan scientists are competent enough to remove predisposed genetic abnormalities to stop inbreeding that is quite a feat. We are talking about some very advanced understanding of the genetic code and an ability to manipulate it, the Clan scientists have it down. Now let us consider that not only can they remove bad genes but they can resequence genes to customize the Elemental and the Aerospace lines to have bodies and minds that are uniquely suited for their task.

Now stay with me here.

If you can perform genetic engineering on this level, why are you still trying to use a method of Natural Selection?
I am dead serious about this question because it rates right up there with putting oars on a nuclear powered carrier. Once a society understands the genetic code and can manipulate it, you don't need nature randomizing things to try to get a better result. You can directly modify and tweak the desired genes to get what you are looking for, all nature is going to do is wreck your work.

It seems like all the Clans breeding program is a total sham, just a way to institutionalize and legitimize racism and a warrior caste in charge of everything.

They aren't better because if their breeding program, they are better because of genetic engineering. How amusing, the warriors pride themselves on blood names and being trueborn but in reality, their entire breeding programis just a dog and pony show where good warriors die for nothing.

Edited by CG Oglethorpe Kerensky, 06 February 2013 - 12:14 PM.

[Stormwolf]

CG Oglethorpe Kerensky, on 06 February 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

Lets backtrack a bit...

If Clan scientists are competent enough to remove predisposed genetic abnormalities to stop inbreeding that is quite a feat. We are talking about some very advanced understanding of the genetic code and an ability to manipulate it, the Clan scientists have it down. Now let us consider that not only can they remove bad genes but they can resequence genes to customize the Elemental and the Aerospace lines to have bodies and minds that are uniquely suited for their task.

Now stay with me here.

If you can perform genetic engineering on this level, why are you still trying to use a method of Natural Selection?
I am dead serious about this question because it rates right up there with putting oars on a nuclear powered carrier. Once a society understands the genetic code and can manipulate it, you don't need nature randomizing things to try to get a better result. You can directly modify and tweak the desired genes to get what you are looking for, all nature is going to do is wreck your work.

It seems like all the Clans breeding program is a total sham, just a way to institutionalize and legitimize racism and a warrior caste in charge of everything.

They aren't better because if their breeding program, they are better because of genetic engineering. How amusing, the warriors pride themselves on blood names and being trueborn but in reality, their entire breeding programis just a dog and pony show where good warriors die for nothing.

Nobody ever said that the eugenics program was ever viable in the real world.

You'll simply have to accept that the writers designed the Clans to be a high tech warrior culture embracing a more spartan approach. This can be for better or for worse, like so:

1. In the Jade Phoenix Trilogy there was a part where it was mentioned that the warriors are selected from the best of the best to ensure that no people are killed who are unfit for this task. Which translated into: "we get to fight and die and die for you, we lead so you are safe".

2. On the other hand, this system is rather inflexible and will instill a sense of superiority in some that it becomes a form of chauvenism. This is pretty much the picture people got of the Clans during the invasion.


You can spin this whatever way you want to fit your view of the Clans.

Edited by Stormwolf, 06 February 2013 - 01:53 PM.

[CoffiNail]

Natasha Kerensky, on 06 February 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

Don't talk to me about honor, Draconis Combine.

Unfortunately, the Dragoons earned the emnity of Kurita warlord Grieg Samsonov when Wolf rejected Samsonov's demand to give him direct command over the Dragoon units. Subsequently, Samsonov plotted against the Dragoons. Meanwhile, the Coordinator decreed that the Dragoons should assist in the creation of the Ryuken ("Dragon's Sword"), a group of 5 regiments trained and organized in the fashion of the Dragoons instead of traditional DCMS doctrine. Tetsuhara was given command of the Ryuken which allowed Samsonov to promote Jerry Akuma, incidentially an old enemy of Tetsuhara, to the position of liaison officer to the Dragoons in his stead. The good relationship between the Dragoons and their employer began to deteriorate.
In September 3026 a joint Dragoon/Ryuken assault took place on Barlow's End. When Tetsuhara was critically wounded in a hovercraft "accident" presumably arranged by Akuma, both he and Akuma were evacuated and replaced by Tai-sa Elijah Satoh who took command of both the Ryuken and the Dragoons. His incompetence, combined with abusive and unfair treatment of the mercenaries, turned the campaign into a disaster and estranged the Ryuken and Wolf's Dragoons. The Kurita attackers were pushed back by the defenders, namely the White Witches and the elite Eridani Light Horse. The blame for the defeat was laid at the feet of Wolf's Dragoons and Samsonov and Akuma then worked towards either gaining control of the Dragoons, or destroy them. To this end the Dragoons were ordered to deploy in several smaller units to weaken their strength, and were then harassed by oppressive bureaucracy and supply shortages. Eventually, they took to clandestine raids of Davion supply depots for supplies, without informing their employers.

Using these raids as a pretext, the Draconis Combine accused the Dragoons of breach of contract, followed by general anti-Dragoon propaganda, sabotage and engineered riots; the unit was also framed for alleged war crimes. To put further pressure on the Dragoons, Hephaestus, their space station orbiting their HQ world of An Ting, was captured by Kurita special forces masquerading as freedom fighters.
Finding themselves suddenly fighting an intense and taxing shadow war against their own employer for the second time, Jaime Wolf enacted a contingency plan that had been developed after the experience with Anton Marik. In a suicide mission, a small group of dedicated Dragoon soldiers and technicians fought their way into a HPG compound in Cerant, An Ting, on the night of January 3, 3028, and sent a coded message to the scattered Dragoon forces, ordering them to withdraw and regroup on the ice planet Misery.

I almost died because of this. ********...

This is from Wolves on the Border. I JUST finished reading this book last week. REALLY damn good. The best part is you can see that the Clans, Wolves Dragoons and all that was being developed in the late 80s. I mean the novel was published 1988 iirc, and then that would be there would have been talk and discussion earlier than that. The WD have been a mystery from the start, so there is a good chance that the Clan Invasion was thought of from the start.

To be fair, the Combine does have a sense of honour. During the initial waves of OP Revival the warriors of the DCMS often accepted the batchalls from the Clan Warriors, and then almost all the time died or were taken as bondsman. The commanders eventually had to ban the warriors from accepting batchalls due to their consistent losses.

[Pariah Devalis]

CoffiNail, on 06 February 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:

This is from Wolves on the Border. I JUST finished reading this book last week. REALLY damn good. The best part is you can see that the Clans, Wolves Dragoons and all that was being developed in the late 80s. I mean the novel was published 1988 iirc, and then that would be there would have been talk and discussion earlier than that. The WD have been a mystery from the start, so there is a good chance that the Clan Invasion was thought of from the start.

To be fair, the Combine does have a sense of honour. During the initial waves of OP Revival the warriors of the DCMS often accepted the batchalls from the Clan Warriors, and then almost all the time died or were taken as bondsman. The commanders eventually had to ban the warriors from accepting batchalls due to their consistent losses.

...the flipside being the interaction between the DCMS and the Nova Cats resulted in a state of mutual respect. Love them or hate them, the Combine had a healthy dose of respect for the Nova Cats, and the Nova Cats for the DCMS, as they performed with far more honor then they would have expected from an Inner Sphere nation. This odd bond of respect proved beneficial to the Nova Cats after they fled to the Inner Sphere after being prematurely attacked by their former clansmen ahead of schedule in a cowardly and dishonorable manner in what essentially were greedy land grab plays.

However, the events of the Dark Ages eventually threw that respect into question, as a growing sense of resentment towards the attitude of the Draconis Combine leadership towards the remaining Nova Cat reservations took root, though as far as I know only manifested itself in the Spirit Cats. Curiously enough, the Nova Cats never viewed the Spirit Cats as anything more then wayward brothers who would someday return to the fold. However, honor demands are strong in the Nova Cat culture, and so the Cats caught their own tongue, so to speak.

It is like the Dracs cannot decide if they want to be honorable or not. They are absolutely bipolar whackjobs, but it sure beats house Liao.

By the by, whoever wrote the Dark Age material really should be dropped off someplace extremely unpleasant. Perhaps Kaetetôã.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 06 February 2013 - 10:48 PM.

[Jaroth Corbett]

One of my all time favorite BT books. I loved the ending.!

Quote

Epilogue



ComStar First Circuit Compound
Hilton Head Island, North America, Terra
17 August 3028

“You are most welcome here, Colonel Wolf,” Julian Tiepolo almost shouted.

Heads turned to stare at the black-jacketed mercenary. Wolf threw the ComStar Primus a
contemptuous glance and returned to scanning the crowd in the room below him. His gaze swept the
festive assembly gathered for the occasion of the marriage of Prince Hanse Davion of the Federated Suns
to Melissa Steiner, heir to the Archonship of the Lyran Commonwealth. Wolf was a predator searching a
flock for his prey.

The mention of the mercenary's name cut through the noise around Takashi Kurita and captured his
attention. He turned to look across the room at the short man standing at the top of the stairs. Despite
his size, the mercenary's presence suddenly dominated the room.

It was plain that Wolf was agitated. He hefted a meter-long bundle swathed in black and silver-
brocaded fabric. The motion made his wolf's-head epaulet glitter with a hard light that matched the look
in his eyes. People sidled away from that cold stare.

Wolf's gaze met Takashi's. The Coordinator knew instantly whom the mercenary was seeking.

Wolf started down the stairs in Takashi's direction, the crowd melting away from him. Even the gallant
senior officers and officials who surrounded Takashi slipped out of the mercenary's path. All except
Yorinaga Kurita.

Takashi read the tension between the two ‘Mech Warriors as they stood face to face. Almost
imperceptibly, Wolf nodded. Yorinaga relaxed. Satisfied that Wolf was no physical danger to his cousin,
Yorinaga Kurita nodded in return, but held his ground.

Takashi laid a hand on Yorinaga's shoulder, signaling his acceptance of the mercenary's presence with
a squeeze. The younger Kurita bowed and stepped back to take a watchful position a few meters away.

Wolf stripped the fabric from his burden. As the paired swords came into view, Yorinaga took a half-
step forward. ComStar had forbidden all weapons at the festivities, but somehow Wolf had managed to
bring in these. Yorinaga halted when the weapons clattered to the floor at Takashi's feet.

Takashi looked down at the swords. The shorter one had landed atop the longer. A dark reddish stain
marred the lacquer on the upper sword's hilt and covered one of the mon symbols. The other symbols
were still clear and white against the black background. He recognized the Tetsuhara family crest.

When Takashi raised his eyes toward Wolf, the mercenary launched into fluent and rapid Japanese of a
blunt and disrespectful form.

“Those are all that is left of a good man! When you return them to his family, you won't have to lie.
You can tell them he stood by his honor till the end. I hope you're satisfied with what you have arranged.
You were a fool to force him to this.”

Takashi's face was hard. By sheer force of will, he restrained his anger. He started to speak, but Wolf
forged ahead.

“You thought you could do better than Anton Marik, didn't you? Thought you had the answers he
missed. You were wrong!

“You certainly spilled more blood. You even cost us more property, but that counts little against the
lives you took. We Dragoons set great store by our people. No one touches them and gets away with it.
No one!

“It's all been for nothing, you know. You've failed. The Dragoons are clear of the Combine and ready to
fight. We have survived both your puny schemes and your overrated military might. We've whipped your
Warlord and left him licking his wounds. You really should get a better thug to do your dirty work.”

Wolf paused, his immediate rage spent. The gold braid cord looped under his right armpit trembled
with the tension in his body. When Takashi spoke, his voice was calm and even, like one trying to calm a
dangerous beast. “You misunderstand, Colonel Wolf. This,” he said, indicating the swords at his feet, “was
never my wish. I valued Minobu Tetsuhara.

“Samsonov did not act with my approval. I warned you that others would take independent action ...”

“Save your lies for the gullible,” Wolf snapped. “You've paid a high price and you don't even know the
whole of what you've bought. If I thought you were an honorable man, I'd make it personal.

“From this day, the Dragoons are at war with you and your House, Takashi Kurita! If you think you can
take us, go ahead and try. We'll see you in ruins. Watch your border!”

Wolf stopped, slightly out of breath.

Takashi could see that Wolf might have run out of words, but that his store of rage was far from
emptied. Nothing Takashi could say could change the man's heart. The Coordinator bowed slightly to
acknowledge his understanding.

Wolf's nostrils flared and his jaw clenched. He turned his back on the Coordinator and stalked off
across the hall, black boots striking hard against the polished surface of inlaid marble.

With a peremptory gesture of his hand, Takashi summoned one of his officials. His face was a mask,
only the eyes alive. They never left the retreating back of the mercenary Colonel as he spoke, “I want to
know how Wolf got here before I was given word of the result of the fighting on Misery. Find out who is
responsible and have him shot.”

The nervous official started to leave, but Takashi stayed him with a lifted finger.

“Also arrange for the delivery of Grieg Samsonov's head. His bungling has cost too much this time.”

The official scurried off.

Takashi frowned as he watched Wolf fall into conversation with Morgan Kell. While he pondered the
possible subject of the mercenaries' conversation, Yorinaga returned to his side. “Wolf is strong-willed,”
he said. “A dangerous man.”

“Yes,” Takashi agreed. He smiled at his cousin. “But then, so am I.”

Across the room, Wolf suddenly looked up to meet Takashi's gaze. In Wolf's steely eyes, Takashi read
hatred and defiance, masking a well of pain. No compromise with this man would be possible. The Wolf
would not be satisfied until his jaws had closed on the throat of the Dragon.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 07 February 2013 - 01:56 PM.

[CoffiNail]

Jaroth Winson, on 07 February 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

One of my all time favorite BT books. I loved the ending.!

So far, I agree (As I am just on Heir to the Dragon in the re-reading of novels)

[Natasha Kerensky]

Jaroth Winson, on 07 February 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

One of my all time favorite BT books. I loved the ending.!

Excellent.

[Headlessnewt]

Why do people like the clans?

They're foreign. They are a Badass Warrior Culture. Their mechs are frickin' sweet. Also they're statwise better, but I grew up on MW2, which was Clan vs Clan so I didn't know at the time, I never played TT as anything but IS vs IS or Clan vs Clan because balancing that was a nightmare.

I personally think that you people who find the clans repulsive and defend the Inner Sphere are hilarious, since the Inner Sphere is a feudal, mostly corrupt society ruled over by noble houses who are too proud to unite under anyone else's banner.

These days? I'm a ComStar Loyalist, though I really hate Franchise Mary Sue Victor Steiner-Davion.

[Gammanoob]

Headlessnewt, on 11 February 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

I personally think that you people who find the clans repulsive and defend the Inner Sphere are hilarious, since the Inner Sphere is a feudal, mostly corrupt society ruled over by noble houses who are too proud to unite under anyone else's banner.

I personally find both the Inner Sphere and Clans repulsive, to me it's like arguing whether the National Socialists or the Communists were better.

Both groups and their leaders did some very sketchy things, espoused rather extreme political ideologies and if you happened to be "undesirable" for whatever reason things weren't so great.

Edited by Gammanoob, 11 February 2013 - 08:07 PM.

[Szaesse]

It's so interesting to read these posts. As you look into what people say, and how they react to the Clans in general, you can learn a great deal about a person.

Personally, I definitely feel a connection to the Clans. Actually, my two favorite clans are Ghost Bear and Jade Falcon (though Nova Cat is a close third). Obviously, my clan preferences are extremely varied. I think my connection to Jade Falcon is partly due to a combination of MW2 and The Trilogy of the Jade Pheonix (Aidan Pryde is one of my favorite characters of all time). Ghost Bear, I rather like their attitude.
However, at the same time, I am a massive fan of the Federated Suns.

Really, it comes down to a purely idealistic discussion in the end.
People who are drawn to the Clans tend to support meritocracy, honor, patriotism (often to a fanatical degree), and often espouse the belief "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few". They tend to have a problem with waste in general, are personally motivated to prove themselves, and tend to be exceptionally willing to give of themselves for their community. They also tend to believe in their causes and ideals extremely strongly, and often try to "convince" others of the validity of their cause. The flavor that the individual clans offer draws on some points more than others, which gives you the preference a person has.
People who support the Inner Sphere are much more difficult to categorize. It depends on which nation you prefer.
The Capellan's are an interesting bunch. Same fanatical patriotism, merged with a combination of North Korea and Ancient China. People who are drawn to the Capellan nation tend to prefer strong leadership, and tend to be extremely spunky. They don't back down, they are happy to hold a grudge.
People who are drawn to the FWL, as I have seen it, tend to think very "modernly". The fact that the FWL is effectively a democracy is what seems to draw people to it most. Honestly, in a star-spanning empire, democracy is effectively lead shoes tied to the feet of a drowning man. This is why the FWL has suffered so many civil wars, as well as why it has never really been a dominant force in the universe. It's big enough to be a threat, but never really was on. It's just bloody hard to beat. People who like the FWL tend to be very much "for the people", rather than "for the nation".
People drawn to the Lyran Commonwealth are usually capitalists. They believe wholeheartedly in capitalism, and the power of the dollar. Either that, or they are the type that appreciate utilizing money and social/political standing as leverage. Innovators and power-brokers tend to like this faction.
People drawn to the Federated Suns often view themselves as "white knights" or protectors. They also tend to be very aware of the failings of others, and willing to let those others know what their failings are. The Fed Suns is very similar to the Republican Party of the United States. They believe in their view of what freedom is, and are willing to force their form of freedom on everyone else, whether they like it or not. If they don't, they'll learn to appreciate it "when the brainwashing wears off".
People drawn to the Combine tend to have similar views as people drawn to the Clans. The difference is that rather than dedication to a nation, people drawn to the Combine are often dedicated to an ideal or a particular leader. They are the types of people that would be happy to dedicate themselves to something in particular, and often view the needs of that something as being more important than anything else.

Obviously, this doesn't always hold true for absolutely everyone. But over the many years of listening to people discuss BT lore, watching who chose what nation to support in TT games, or in previous MW titles, I've seen these same sorts of stereotypes play out time and again. As for the technology side. I'll admit, in every other MW title, I've used Clan tech to eek out a more powerful build. However, while the tech is definitely better, there are still disadvantages to it, and tech isn't everything. My favorite mech of all time is still the Axeman (both the 1N and the 2N versions. Armament wise, I prefer the 1N, but the 2N holds a special place in my heart.... thank you Adam Steiner).

[guardian wolf]

Jaroth Winson, on 01 February 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

Gratitude for your support, trothkin. Join the Crusaders. We have cookies! (chocolate chip, oatmeal raisin, gingersnaps, double chocolate, you name it we have it.)

As much as I would like to Jaroth, my loyalties lie with the Wardens.

dal10, on 02 February 2013 - 07:06 PM, said:

no offense guardian, but the clans excelled on the personal level, were horrible on the tactical level, and ok on a strategic level. give me a battalion in an entrenched position and i could easily do a 2-1 possibly even a 3-1 kd against the clans. the only thing the inner sphere could not counter was the warships, and their supply lines were definitely not better than the inner sphere's

Once again, that is tactics working in your favor, the only problem is, that the Clan tech is lighter, faster, and you would be caught unawares by this new enemy because of the fact that you would be prepared to fight one of your IS counterparts. Even if it was later in the war, so you could prepare for the Clans, they would just cut you off from resupply, and let you starve.

Gammanoob, on 03 February 2013 - 03:26 AM, said:

Best satirical post in this thread hands down.

If anything the only reason the Clans are even a threat is because the writers wrote them in as the "magically, superior, invading force."

In regards to logistics, tactics and strategy the Clans would in any realistic portrayal be dead from the start.

First and foremost, thank you for the complement. Now in regards to your thoughts on our logistics, lets take a look at how Clan Wolf conducted themselves. They had such great supply lines that they literally put everyone else to shame in how fast they took planets. And add the fact that they have much greater firepower per ton, and heat management per ton in their capabilities, and you've got a lot working against you. Now I will stop my rant in this thread where it doesn't belong and instead will put up a new thread where we can argue this.

[Ken Fury]

Clan Wolf also had the advantage of superior intel due to Inner Sphere members helping them in huge ways. And they have been given the easies invasion corridor by those writers.

[Wales Grey]

Tank Boy Ken, on 15 February 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

Clan Wolf also had the advantage of superior intel due to Inner Sphere members helping them in huge ways. And they have been given the easies invasion corridor by those writers.

Wardens wanted to stay in the Pentagon and be the warrior overlords forever. Crusaders were pushed by their lower castes to actually fulfill the promises of Nicholas Kerensky.

Plus, Wolf is basically Clan Writer's Pet Faction that is Perfect and Good.

[Rannos]

Wait, wasn't Clan Wolf absorbed by Clan Widowmaker? I swear I read a published battletech writer wrote that somewhere...

[Kiyoshi Mizumura]

Natasha Kerensky, on 06 February 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

I almost died because of this. ********...

Natasha "The Black Widow" Romanov Kerensky almost died because she blundered her company into The Bounty Hunter and Greig Samsonov decided it'd be a good idea to commit a war crime against his own people. That subplot actually didn't really go anywhere and is one of the weakest in the novel.

You didn't "almost" anything because of a weak subplot in the best BattleTech novel.

Edit:
On topic, people like the Clans because they're a politics-free (which they're really not) meritocracy (which they're also not) firmly grounded in science (except for the Clans who very much aren't).

I like them because they're extremely contradictory and self-defeating, and watching them implode on contact with other cultures is fascinating.

Edited by General Discussion Kerensky, 15 February 2013 - 02:34 PM.

[Aidan Prydee]

Easy answer, in all games i like to choose the not so much-loved side, because i think i am relatively morally in real life. The Clans are different, be it in culture and heart.

Why do i like to read fantasy or sci-fi novels? Because its totally different to our normal life. The choise is easy for me.