457 replies to this topic

[Koshirou]

For my old Mechwarrior RPG campaign, I liked the Clans because they made for good stupid villains with shiny stuff to plunder. The fact that they don't leave behind widows or orphans made it all the better.

[lsp]

H8Bitter, on 26 November 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:

The fact that skill is valued over wealth, is all i need to verify where my allegiance lies.
To the untrianed eye the clanner structure may seem like a totalitarian society, I however much prefer that strict ruleset over easily corruptable systems of power.
In real world terms, Id rather live under a vicious dictator that forbid rock n roll, than have to bear witness to the increasingly stupid masses yammering on about how free they are while enclosed in their cubicles worshipping paper notes.

Don't think you would. try out Syria, see how you like it.

[Koshirou]

Jaroth Winson, on 04 February 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

And the other Clans learned after the third wave

Except that does not shorten their supply lines even one centimeter.

The Clans have to bring 'Mechs, AeroSpace fighters, Elemental suits, vehicles, spare parts and ammunition in from Clan Space. Clan Space is located ~1200 LY from the edge of the Inner Sphere, so no matter what you do, every single piece of supplies will have to travel that distance. And of course, your transports will add exactly the same amount in empty return runs. There is simply no way around this.

Considering that the Clans actually need to bring goods into the Inner Sphere rather than just to its "northern" border and that solar systems (which you need to enter in order to recharge your K-F drive) are not always conveniently located, let's assume that you need about 50 jumps to cover that distance - maximum jump distance for any JumpShip is 30 LY. One jump takes about a week to recharge.

We can disregard the presence of L-F batteries. Regular non-WarShip JumpShips do not carry them and in fact cannot carry them without severely reducing available space for DropShips.They don't help in the long run, anyway.

Assuming the average JumpShip is an Invader with 3 docking collars, you will need about 8 of them to bring in a single DropShip's worth of supplies from Clan Space once per month. To replace 10% monthly losses in hardware alone (very conservative since they allegedly conquered many worlds per month - more on that in a minute) in the original invading clans per month, you'd need about 160 JumpShips in my estimate. To replace losses similar as those listed for Tukayyid, you'd need several times more. That does not take into account any other supplies than replacing losses.

I should point out that I've crunched the numbers on the Clan invasion and it is impossible to achieve their conquest schedule. Even if they "conquer" a planet in less than one day (this Wham-Bam-Thankyou-Ma'm style of conquest never made any sense to begin with) and leave on the same day, it's impossible because jumps and in-system transits are not fast enough.

[Strengar]

Personally I have nothing against the clans. I think the tech is cool and I understand the rigidity of the code.
I think some tactics do not promote a healthy long life, personally I like to live.

I think the one thing that makes me laugh is everyone who actually has the balls to say AFF, QUEAFF (spelling) and QUNEG (spelling) in chat servers. That just kills me hearing people say those words because afterwards they are using contractions and other non-clan like phrases.
If you are going to RP clan speak then RP clan speak and attitude all the time, not some time. I will still laugh but I give RPers more credit than half RPers.

Now I haven't read the books in years so I do not remember all the stuff but I know "Hey bud...............AFF" is not clan speak.

That's just my 2 cents.

Edited by Shadow8125, 19 February 2013 - 09:41 AM.

[Emery]

Despite being a long time fan of the lore and hating the clans for all kinds of reasons, my main reason for hating them i actualy quite simple.

They showed up and wrecked what would hopefully have been a really, really, epic Fifth Succession War, and they also showed up about 50 years too early. The Inner Sphere that the clanners came along and started wrecking was entering into a massive technical renaissance, and the Federated Commonwealth was slowly starting to actually accomplish the goal that the clans supposedly wanted - to reunite the inner Sphere, under the Star League.

I think it is not entirely unreasonable to think that, had if the clans held off for a bit longer and given the Federated Commonwealth time to actually accomplish what it had looked to be on the brink of doing, they could have done it. They would have been able to come back peacefully and to an Inner Sphere that had reformed the Star League, under FedCom, with massive technical innovation occurring all over the place thanks to the NAIS and the Helm Memory Core. They waited for quite a while, and imo chose the worst possible moment in the time frame, pre-Clan Invasion, to come and stick their noses into Inner Sphere politics.

What is most frustrating though, is you look further down the timeline at 3145 and 3135 maps, and all the clans coming and destroying progress and a possible Inner Sphere unification has actually *accomplished* is to even further fragment the Inner Sphere, and lead to yet another technical decline: AKA the Dark Age.

Good Job clanners. Way to wreck a good thing. Heck, I hate them for all kinds of other reasons - but c'mon. This universe is make believe. I think it's perfectly justifiable to hate them the most for coming on in and wrecking a good story line.

[Gremlich Johns]

Eadon, on 31 January 2014 - 09:37 PM, said:

Despite being a long time fan of the lore and hating the clans for all kinds of reasons, my main reason for hating them i actualy quite simple.

They showed up and wrecked what would hopefully have been a really, really, epic Fifth Succession War, and they also showed up about 50 years too early. The Inner Sphere that the clanners came along and started wrecking was entering into a massive technical renaissance, and the Federated Commonwealth was slowly starting to actually accomplish the goal that the clans supposedly wanted - to reunite the inner Sphere, under the Star League.

Then what you are saying is that Stackpole and the other writers are at fault for not having written the Clan portion better. Like the Wolf's Dragoons could have relayed what the FedCom was accomplishing in a much better fashion than was done? Which would have left the Dragoons to continue to "Watch" the IS. Maybe the Wobbies would not have been a factor or maybe the Wobbies would have been the threat the Clans could have been used to counter?

Clan-centric players really do not care whether anybody dislikes the Clans. The fiction is what it is and it is incumbent upon an IS-centric to be a better opponent and thereby earn the respect of players who can easily beat you with fewer numbers.

PGI has to, at a minimum in order to keep me playing more often than I do (once a week for maybe an hour): 1) not nerf the Clan tech, 2) limit the fighting forces number to 2 stars vs 12 IS mechs, 3) not permit cross-teching, and 4) make the prices for mechs appear sane.

If PGI's performance with the game at launch ("produce a minimally viable game" (a quote I might add)) holds true for UI 2.0 and CW, then we will get minimally viable UI 2.0 and CW.

[Lightdragon]

GabrielKnight, on 26 November 2012 - 10:28 AM, said:

There was a time in my wayward youth when I was a Clanner at heart, but after a few years away from Battletech I've come back to this game and frankly...the clans repulse me. Institutionalised racism, caste based society, eugenics, disregard for sound military tactics... No thanks.
I'd rather be freebirth scum these days! Maybe I've grown up a bit.
What draws you to the Clan way?

Disclaimer: This is meant to be a lighthearted post. Please don't degenerate into flames.

not all the clans were that way, the ghost bears co-exist with the former republic in their occupational zone

[Carl Wrede]

We dont like them at all!

[SKFirebird]

I personally liked the clan culture, because of our stratified it was. The caste cultural systems have always interested me, however the main ones we have in real history have a religious component as its back bone (Hinduism by example). The Clans though are atheistic example, that reminds me other Second Foundation referenced in Issac Azimov's Fondation novels.

basically the entire culture looking for the "best" based on certain fields of expertise valued in the culture.

The Inner Sphere just seemed to be the natural evolution of a Western Bureaucratic Social Democracy, or Parliamentary Monarchy.

[Uncle Totty]

Carl Wrede, on 18 February 2014 - 01:46 PM, said:

We dont like them at all!

Oh, hi there Troll Carl Wrede. What brings you here?

Edited by Nathan K, 18 February 2014 - 07:29 PM.

[BigTaeng]

I am in it for all the casual sex coupling.

[Will9761]

tech

[PaintedWolf]

Demona, on 03 January 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

There's always some group that tries to civilize war. They always fail. Doesn't matter if it's a historical sense, modern or fictional. War is uncivilized business.

Wrong. Our drones have civilized war, please read: The Moral Case for Drones

Likewise, war has become less brutal in proportion and effect on the populace over the centuries, see War Before Civilization- the Myth of the Peaceful Savage

During the Middle Ages war was just a fact of every day life, and before that, nations conquered each other daily and took each other as slaves. The death rate of murder alone was two orders of magnitude over what it is today. Back then, there was Siege Warfare, where kids 14-16 years old, or younger, were sent to castle walls to get boiled alive with hot tar.

In any case, what do you think Politics is? Politics is just another way we settle matters that would instead be settled by open warfare.

That is what the vote is in a democracy- a way of determining who rules without us having to resort to war. War has been made more civilized, it's just that people who have the "All or Nothing" mindset can't ever see progress. As Voltair said "The Perfect is the Enemy of the Good."

People who see the world as evil Perfect or Pure Evil can't understand the idea of making things 'better' in a general sense.






http://www.ted.com/t...f_violence.html

Quote

If the Death Rate from Tribal Warfare had prevailed in the 20th century, there would have been two billion deaths rather then one-hundred million.

The only reason you are even alive today is because war has become more civilized.

A quote from the Bible:

Quote

Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

When the US army runs into a city, kills every single male, and married/non-virgin woman and takes all the other women home as slaves, then you can complain that our armies are just as vicious as those in the past, but until then you really should thank your lucky stars you were born in the modern era.

Edited by PaintedWolf, 18 February 2014 - 08:36 PM.

[stalima]

Viper69, on 26 November 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

Their power, period. Everything they have is better in every way. That is what draws people. If they say otherwise they are fibbing .

except those tiny wedged in engines on some lights!

[GalaxyBluestar]

is there something unlikeable about clans? i am insulted by such a question to be even asked...

[Plasticcaz]

MechWarrior 2. 'Nuff said!

I was introduced to Battletech by the clans, so naturally I have a soft spot for the clans.

In fact, it wasn't until I played this game that I knew about the Inner Sphere. I was a little kid when I played MW2, so I didn't read up on much of the lore at all, I just remember the awesome opening cutscene, and the Clan Wolf Intro.

Now I've read up a little on the lore, and I still like Clan Wolf. The Inner Sphere is plagued by corruption and petty wars. The Clans aren't much better on the petty war front (It's part of their justice system!), but I love them anyway.

Oh, I also like the non-Humanoid design of some of their mechs... Namely the Timber Wolf and the Mad Dog.

Edited by Plasticcaz, 20 February 2014 - 05:44 AM.

[lsp]

Because they get better stuff.