35 replies to this topic

[Rocket2Uranus]

I use overheat suicide on trial mechs all the time.
if i get surrounded i op to over heat and blow myself up before giving the enemy a kill.

this is strategic suicide and i hope that overheating death will not automatically get u zero Cbills.

Edited by Inappropriate634, 27 November 2012 - 12:05 PM.

[sycocys]

Alois Hammer, on 27 November 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

THE HEAT SUICIDE -EXPLOIT MUST BE ISSUED ASAP!


I think the exploit has already been issued, and is being used vigorously. What it must be is repealed, repaired, fixed, stomped out, and so on.

HAHAHA! Totally missed that. Carry on with the ideas though, I'm sure there's a combination of them that won't super nerf any player.

[ElLocoMarko]

How about... make overheat never kill the mech. Fully disable the mech yes, no weapons, no walking - zombie it, but not a full kill. Let them look around with torso twist. Some folks will do this accidentally, but probably not too often.

[Dagger906]

Behold - Sucking at heat management is now a bannable offense

But wait, how does previous MW games handle this "exploit?" Oh yeah, it's far harder to overheat and there's no "override" button.

Edited by Dagger906, 27 November 2012 - 12:48 PM.

[Randodan]

My Atlas keeps blowing up in the heat of the battle quite often. Not funny. And no, I am not farming. Guess I am too eager on the trigger. Mind you, though, a few patches ago this wasn't the case. Same configuration on my end -- different outcomes now.

[Mason2501]

KhanCipher, on 27 November 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

i might want to point out that if this idea doesn't quite work, e.g. my SL+DHS hunchback is currently waiting for a bigger engine (i went from a 200 to a 225, then i figured out that SPLs are not worth it and downgraded back to SLs), which right now it functions better than a standard lvl1 SLback, but it's 5.5 tons underweight, and engines cost alot of money you know

A good reason to own more then one Mech. There always playing trial mechs as well. Really if a player buys a mech then chooses to sell everything off of the mech, sorry you should not be allowed to pilot that Mech till its combat ready!

As for your issue, yes engines are pricey. You couldn't use some Mediums lasers, or Mediums pulse lasers, or add armor, or heat sinks. Agreed slightly underweight ok. Maybe 6 tons under on hunchback is ok. But should a player get to go into a match 20-40 tons under weight? Have almost no repair cost and still earn cbills! My thought is NO.

There should be some minimums requirements put into the Mech lab. Personally I think Mechs should not be at all modified from the start. After the Mech reaches Elite, then you PAY to modify the mech regardless of ADDING or REMOVING items.
I don't what would be the exact values, but a fair value of weight, items, weapons, armor. IE mechs has to have at least one weapon, some minimum mount of armor, an engine, 10 heat sinks, and roughly be some value close to their tonnage.
Is fair to the team you drop with to run "ZOMBIE MECH" ie no weapons, no armor, no items? Just so a player can max the money of winning or losing. Let alone suicide the mech with a macroing program or hardware, so they take up match spots then do nothing but ruin the game for all the other players. It's not at all fair to the support MWO community. If not quickly handled with will ruin the larger game experience.

[Mason2501]

Dagger906, on 27 November 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

Behold - Sucking at heat management is now a bannable offense

But wait, how does previous MW games handle this "exploit?" Oh yeah, it's far harder to overheat and there's no "override" button.

Tha'ts not what I'm suggesting. Yes its a part of the table top Battletech rules. It's fine PGI put it into the game. I have no issue with Mechs and pilots over zealous in combat. Actually playing the game with trying to support the team. Sure its a risk vs reward system that makes the game fun. Do you dare try for another alpha strike and hope it's enough to bring down the enemy. Yes the stock Mech are not built to be cool running and don't handle hot temps maps well. That is part of the game both Battletech and Mechwarrior.

The concern is that the system for money and exp is flawed. Its now being exploited to avoid playing the game to earn money and creates account that will undermine the MC value, which is PGI way of making money. If PGI doesn't do something quickly, more and more macro bots will be in all the matches. Then what's the fun of a 8 vs 8 when the majority of players are bots cbill farming. Yes that will happen. Yes that will hurt the game as many players quit. Then PGI won't make whatever profit goals they need to stay running. Then we won't have MWO. That's something I clearly don't want to happen. Nor do I think these cbill macro bot account should be rewarded for leeching off matches.

[Mason2501]

Randodan, on 27 November 2012 - 01:11 PM, said:

My Atlas keeps blowing up in the heat of the battle quite often. Not funny. And no, I am not farming. Guess I am too eager on the trigger. Mind you, though, a few patches ago this wasn't the case. Same configuration on my end -- different outcomes now.

Instead Alpha striking or fire weapons as soon as they are ready. Plan a bit better. Running a Mech at 95-99% heat isn't how the game was meant to be played. Just wait a bit before shooting. Stop running at full speed. Firing several weapons at that temp can and should risk to overheat doom. Those ER PPCs, ER large lasers, AC20, LRM20s, or SRM6s do make a bunch of heat. How you group your weapons is apart of the game. How you fire them is part of the game. Which has made Mechwarrior and Battletech different then other shooters. Setting a weapon group to CHAIN FIRE (backspace) in combat at the right heat time is part of the game. Having ammo and not having CASE is more dangerous. That is the risk vs reward that makes the game different and adds an element to piloting. Player learns these skills. The game should not be dumbed down to just hold a fire button down while running at max speed.

[Heguo]

This issue is really easiily distinguishable from someone being bad at heat management and blowing themselves up in the thick of a fight. There are players that immediately upon the drop starting fire all their weapons until they overheat, then override. They repeat this until they explode. The mech does not take a single step, let alone set foot outside the drop zone. They're dead and gone within ten seconds of the match starting.

The fix is easy. Do not allow players to have multiple mechs in matches. If you die, your mech--and you--are stuck in that match until it concludes and you cannot queue up another match with a different mech until the first one is clear. You don't have to go nuts trying to figure out how to catch and punish people who do this, just make it so that it's no longer more efficient than just playing the game.

[RonanFrost]

Universal Solution:
If someone dies from overheat, dock them. 0 xp, suffer repair, 0 c-bills awarded.

Impact:
Suiciders [both those trying to "strategically keep the other team from getting a kill" and those trying to cheat the system]
-Custom Mech - results in a net LOSS for your attempts to cheat something, be it the economy or the match.
-Trial Mech - results in nothing.
-Your death should count for the other team no matter what the reason, period.
-The team you're on still has to fight one man down, but incentive to cheat removed, this should stop.

Honest players [Overheated in combat for whatever reason, resulting in death]
-Custom Mech - results in a net LOSS, IMHO, Custom Mech Honest overheat deaths aren't/shouldn't be that common.
-Trial Mech - results in nothing. You are not penalized for learning. Relax, eat your wheaties, and try again.
-You will learn to manage your heat

By the time you have custom mechs you SHOULD have learned to manage your heat, and/or build better. If you're in a custom mech, and overheating to the point of death, you're doing it wrong.

The long and short of it, if you take away the reward for cheating and bad play, the community and players as individuals will be better for it. The same could be done for all types of suicide, like by legging yourself to death, and running out of bounds. Award the point to the other team, and dock them. Just please, reduce/eliminate the problems that make it happen when it shouldn't. (glitches, etc.)

[RonanFrost]

Heguo, on 27 November 2012 - 02:15 PM, said:

This issue is really easiily distinguishable from someone being bad at heat management and blowing themselves up in the thick of a fight. There are players that immediately upon the drop starting fire all their weapons until they overheat, then override. They repeat this until they explode. The mech does not take a single step, let alone set foot outside the drop zone. They're dead and gone within ten seconds of the match starting.

The fix is easy. Do not allow players to have multiple mechs in matches. If you die, your mech--and you--are stuck in that match until it concludes and you cannot queue up another match with a different mech until the first one is clear. You don't have to go nuts trying to figure out how to catch and punish people who do this, just make it so that it's no longer more efficient than just playing the game.

Adding to my previous - if they're dead from overheat within 30 seconds of the fight, flag the account. They should have their account wiped, warned, and/or banned.

For Heguo's solution - makes sense. I'd do both. Removing the reward for hacks/cheats/exploits makes them stop on their own. If there's no incentive, there's no point. But there's no reason a dead pilot should be able to get in another mech while they're still "dead" either.* O.o

*unless PGI adds a game mode in which you deathmatch multiple mechs, like is suggested in the game modes threads.

Edited by RonanFrost, 27 November 2012 - 02:24 PM.

[sycocys]

I rather like the zombie idea - it forces them to be a free kill. Yet they stay in the match if they accidentally do it so we can help them sort it out.

Maybe a combo of that and 0 xp/c-bills if its within x amount from the start - and possibly locking the mech player into play whether they disco or not(ie 90% earning a free death) to dissuade people trying to game the k/d ratio.

[zariaah]

here is the suggestion i add to the bottom of every email i make to support regarding suiciders when i report them:

turn off self detonation.

This shouldn't be a difficult idea to grasp. a 'mech with no ammo cannot explode, as the engine shutdown protocols prevent this from happening in the battletech lore itself.

You will then ask "what about a 'mech with ammo then".

My answer is:

Irrelevant. all 'mechs explode at the moment. fix one issue first programmatically then deal with ammo explosions after you turn off self detonation.

a shutdown 'mech is just as good as a dead mech. increase shutdown times the higher the heat is.

that way you don't penalize an atlas alpha-striking in the lava crater in caustic valley for making an... oversight. just put him in shutdown mode for a long, long time.

Keep in mind there is a possibility for a 'mech to overheat and detonate the exact time he destroys an opposing 'mech. What would happen then?

food for thought.

[Randodan]

Dying from overheating is already bad enough for the player involved. There's no reason to punish them further.

[NocturnalBeast]

Simple solution:

http://mwomercs.com/...ser-experience/

[SpookShow]

eh the heat system is out of wack and most of the time my heat sensor says I am fine. Ill launch a LRM 15 volley and next thing I know I have an ammo explosion. There was one time I let one rip and my torso blew out...explosive.