58 replies to this topic

[Vollstrecker]

The missiles feel a lot like the novels tended to portray them, as a solid wave slamming into your 'mech. I never quite liked the "aimable" missiles of MW4, didn't fit the tabletop or fluff.

What I'd like to see is how they behave within minimum range (<180m).

[Motionless]

Naduk, on 07 May 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

instead of launching in a block, the missiles would launch separately
like this
http://youtu.be/bonai7PXfUM?t=2m55s

A block seams more imposing to me.

[Bullet Magnet]

I like this missiles just how they have them; I just think there needs to be way more smoke.

[DooMachine]

The swarming of the missles looks way too pre programed in the vid. I see the point about evasive manuvers by the missles but why do they move in perfect pairs?

the moving in syncronised pairs sort of throws me. looks a bit odd. not game ruining but in the spectacular display that was the new gameplay video it stood out as not as polished as the rest.

EDIT: looks like they traveled in pairs because it was dual LRM 15's. a single LRM 20 dose not do that.

Edited by DooMachine, 07 May 2012 - 09:32 PM.

[Corbon Zackery]

The current primary sourcebook for tournament play of Classic BattleTech. The organization of the book has been significantly altered from the previous twenty-plus years of prior editions (of the core rulebook). The intent of the title is to present all current tournament-level rules for play in one tome. The book is not intended for novices, but for dedicated players and judges.


So your only defense is one page in a book you created in 2006? In that book you. altered 20 years of other peoples books so you can run tournaments.

Steps for combat: per your book.

• Combat
  
  • Attack Declaration
    
  • Line of Sight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
  • Weapon Attacks
    
  • Physical Attacks

So on pg 111 Were its says All missles can fire over mountains and hills. Because step 2 of combat were you check Line of sight doesn't apply?

I love when they create a rule in a master book then say well you can break that rule if you do this.

[00dlez]

I've made peace with the missles. They look a little anime-y with the high arc and correographed swarm pattern, but purely from an asthetic point of view, the graphics look good so... meh.

[Pvt Dancer]

I do have to admit I wouldn't mind seeing a Volly fire of 5 missiles for the LRM launchers.

As for damage to that Jenner... I think they had God mode on for those videos, as the Cat with PPCs hammered up that Atlas and he didn't show any damage to any locations.

Could the Centurion, Commando, and Awesome get some love please?

[Ramien]

I do like how the Atlas' LRM-20 was two separate volleys of ten missiles each while the Catapult's LRM-15s were a single volley per shot.

[neodym]

I have to say I was dissapoint when looking at missiles,heres why:

1. I dont like the spread,MW2,MW3,MW4 send them in this tight and direct way

2. the launch,all at once I dont like it.... it looked cool in the trailer,its cinematic and dramatic,I would like it on SRM but LRM,I much more liked the old launch style,this epic stream of concentrated death

3. they dont seem very effective,coupled with fact that I didnt saw any reload stations I can feel balance problems

Edited by neodym, 07 May 2012 - 09:27 PM.

[Sassori]

For all the accuracy, they didn't do much damage. Those were double LRM-15's he was firing, at a Jenner... either that Jenner was /moving/ and avoiding a lot of those missiles or missiles by default don't do much damage. If anything the missiles needed to be /more/ effective. I was kind of disappointed at how many flights he shot, while the Jenner was in combat (getting shot by something else) and the Jenner just sort of, didn't care. Struck me as odd at how tough that Jenner was.

[Marvin Martian]

Corbon Zackery, on 07 May 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

The current primary sourcebook for tournament play of Classic BattleTech. The organization of the book has been significantly altered from the previous twenty-plus years of prior editions (of the core rulebook). The intent of the title is to present all current tournament-level rules for play in one tome. The book is not intended for novices, but for dedicated players and judges.


So your only defense is one page in a book you created in 2006? In that book you. altered 20 years of other peoples books so you can run tournaments.

Steps for combat: per your book.

• Combat
  
  • Attack Declaration
    
  • Line of Sight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
  • Weapon Attacks
    
  • Physical Attacks

So on pg 111 Were its says All missles can fire over mountains and hills. Because step 2 of combat were you check Line of sight doesn't apply?

I love when they create a rule in a master book then say well you can break that rule if you do this.

The line of sight is established by the unit spotting for you. There is no disagreement in rules. The question would be how effective is indirect fire in MWO. Tabletop balances it by making it harder for your missiles to hit, unless you paid the tonnage for TAG or C3.

[Kudzu]

Corbon Zackery, on 07 May 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

The current primary sourcebook for tournament play of Classic BattleTech. The organization of the book has been significantly altered from the previous twenty-plus years of prior editions (of the core rulebook). The intent of the title is to present all current tournament-level rules for play in one tome. The book is not intended for novices, but for dedicated players and judges.


So your only defense is one page in a book you created in 2006? In that book you. altered 20 years of other peoples books so you can run tournaments.

Steps for combat: per your book.

• Combat
  
  • Attack Declaration
    
  • Line of Sight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
  • Weapon Attacks
    
  • Physical Attacks

So on pg 111 Were its says All missles can fire over mountains and hills. Because step 2 of combat were you check Line of sight doesn't apply?


I love when they create a rule in a master book then say well you can break that rule if you do this.

I gave you the most recent book with the rules in it, would you prefer to go back to the Battletech Compendium from 1994 that has the same rules for LRM Indirect Fire? And it does require LOS-- from a spotter (Just like the scout mech in the video!). Your arrogance in your ignorance is astounding.

From Sarna (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/LRM)(Relevent parts in italics):
First introduced in 2400 by the Terran Hegemony, Long Range Missiles are designed to engage the enemy at great distances at the expense of damage dealt. Adapted towards the profusion of electronic jamming on the battlefield and the effectiveness of current armor designs, these missiles are capable of indirect fire and disperse over a smaller area than Short Range Missiles. Inner Sphere LRM launchers achieve this range by firing at a ballistic launch angle, making them less accurate at close range. Clan LRM launchers do not suffer from this effect, in addition to being smaller and more compact, thanks to their technological advantage.

Christopher Dayson, on 07 May 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:

For all the accuracy, they didn't do much damage. Those were double LRM-15's he was firing, at a Jenner... either that Jenner was /moving/ and avoiding a lot of those missiles or missiles by default don't do much damage. If anything the missiles needed to be /more/ effective. I was kind of disappointed at how many flights he shot, while the Jenner was in combat (getting shot by something else) and the Jenner just sort of, didn't care. Struck me as odd at how tough that Jenner was.

That seems to be the price for firing indirectly-- more spread on the missiles meaning more misses. Seems rather balanced. Evidently NARC, Artemis, TAG, etc will narrow the spread down generating more damage done.

Edited by Kudzu, 07 May 2012 - 09:47 PM.

[Corbon Zackery]

I'm not trying to make fun of The Total Warfare book but there's like 21 pages of Errata to the book on your own website.

The first one being:

Playtesters/Proofers/Fact Checkers (p. 7)

Insert alphabetically: Edward “Tenaka Fury” Lafferty.”

Reprint Notice (p. 7)

Insert before the legal text (space before and after this line):

“Corrected Third Printing. Second Printing by Catalyst Game Labs.”

House Liao (Capellan Confederation) (p. 17)

Change “Hinduism” to “Hindi.”

Change “Hindu” to “Hinduism.”

These are just the funny ones?

Sorry

Missle need line of sight unless you TAG or run C3 with C3 Master even the Errata on that is funky:

C3 Computer (Master/Slave) (p. 131)

First sentence, second paragraph, remove:

“with line of sight”

After the “TAG” paragraph in the second column, add the following #5 header

paragraph:

“LOS: While units must have LOS to a target to make an attack using a C3

system, the C3 system itself need not have LOS. For example, in the C3

Diagram on p. 132, if there were a Level 2 hill in hex 0409 (blocking LOS

between the unit in Hex B and the target in Hex A), the units in Hexes C and D

would still be able to target the ’Mech in Hex A as though they were at a Range

of 2 (see Water, below, for the exception).”

I wasn't trying to make a big deal out of it we can just use classic rules the big boy book is well to advanced.

[Sassori]

Classic Battletech rules are Total Warfare rules... by the people who now control the franchise... not sure what you're getting at here.

Indirect Fire with LRM's and TAG and the like have been around for like... oh, almost 20 years now?

[Sir Sohtaraz]

One thing I really really hate about the missiles is that they have short cooldown. I used to think LRM packs were slow reload tag your target->shoot a huge cloud of death -> reposition before you get swarmed.

With a few second reload time it really comes down to just being a very stationary target on top of a hill and constantly firing.

The problem with that is what is the role of AC2 then? I thought that was supposed to be the ammunition long range sustained damage output weapon...

[Deathz Jester]

I picture a "stream" when firing SRMs, maybe. But either system works for me for the LRMs. I know its a bad example cause its not entirely an accurate depiction of Battletech, but in Mechwarrior 4 I noticed the missiles sort of fired in "waves" like from top to bottom. The top row would fire all at once, then the next, and so on. I remember I used to love playing with the mektek mod, and seeing Wave after wave of Inferno or Thunder LRMs pouring from my Longbow or Trebuchet mech.

[Nighthound]

I just love those missiles .... it looks beautifull how they fly off and perform a kind of dance in midair ..... I like it.

Considering Damage Output : I think that was ok as well if you consider the TT rules. First of the indirect fire would reduce your chance to hit at all, secondly he was shooting at a jenner, a very fast Mech, which is notorious for being hard to hit, and last but not least those are unmodified LRMs which only hit with about 50% of the missiles fired anyway. (For those who know the rules : Basic Pilot (4) + probably at medium range (2) + fast moving jenner (3) + indirect fire (1) means he will only hit with 10s on 2D6 .... it's not impossible but not likely (about 17%) add to that the fact that probability dictates only 50% missilies hit per salvo and you would be lucky to get 7-8 points of damage out of those 2 LRM15s)

But we have to see for ourselves how they will perform ingame against the other weapons. One thing is sure though .... it looks fantastik and I can't wait to play.

@Corbon Zackary : I'm sorry but I've been playing TT for close to 2 decades now, there was always the possiblity of indirect fire with LRMs. I played in one of our Leagues untill a fews years back and there we always used the BT Master Rules (Fasa 1707 from 1998). Maybe you never heard of it, maybe you never played by those rules, maybe you don't like them, but that would be your Opinion and neither rule nor fact.
To shoot LRMs you would need a direct Line of Sight to your Target, or one of your Teammates has a direct Line of Sight to the Target but you don't, So you can shoot directly or indirectly via spotter, you can't however fire directly via spotter. TAG; C3 and all that Stuff doesn't come into it, they just make it easier to hit indirectly.

Edited by Nighthound, 07 May 2012 - 11:04 PM.

[Sychodemus]

The relatively weak power of missiles in BT means that their presentation tends to be more "bottle-rocket" than real rocket. Of course, as compensation, these BT "rockets" are fired at a much faster rate.

I would prefer a slightly staggered volley rather one big block or a "line" of missiles, as well as a more "shrieking" effect but MW has always taken a somewhat (in my opinion) odd approach.

But just for amusement:

[EmyLightsaber]

Better one:

[Solis Obscuri]

EmyLightsaber, on 08 May 2012 - 12:16 AM, said:

Better one:

Hey, was that a Crusader? And a Wasp LAM? Oh wai...