16 replies to this topic

[Victor Morson]

We just got our first look at mechlab, and it looks awesome. However, I did notice when Paul was equipping his ForumUserKiller that, at least in the present build, there's no option for half tons of ammunition on the weapons.

Sometimes, a half ton of ammunition is preferable for a manner of reasons, the most frequent being optimization. Cramming in those few more shots into an unarmored area can really help a design or likewise being able to burn ammo from a hazardous area that you had to fit it into can really pay off in the end.

As such, I'd really love to see Half Ton options for the ammunition types available in the game. Does anyone else feel the same way?

[HeIIequin]

Well, I'd assume that 1/2 ton of ammo would take up a full crit slot? I guess I'd be all for it. Also useful when you only have .5 tons left, can't fit any more armour, and don't feel like having a small laser or something.

[Monky]

I agree with this idea, half ton ammunition just makes sense. You can round up oddball counts like SRM6 (15 reloads per ton) to 16, or round down if you prefer with minimal impact so that it's easily divisible.

Either that or just cut in half and round down.

[Kenyon Burguess]

not really keen on the idea. its not just the ammo you are buying its the space, the loading system, and everything else associated with transfering ammo from your left leg to your autocannon located in your right torso. how does that even work btw? guess thats a discussion for a different forum posting. while im ranting on ammo. why doesnt the ac20 ammo automatically remove itself when you remove the ac20 from your mech? why doesnt the new ac5 come with a ton of ammo?

[Orzorn]

Geist Null, on 07 May 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

why doesnt the new ac5 come with a ton of ammo?

Actually, if you look at the cost of the AC5, it corresponds exactly the the unloaded cost of the TT version. In fact, all of the weapons that I could see corresponded exactly to their TT (unloaded) costs.

So the weapons don't come with ammo because you don't buy them with ammo.

[Morashtak]

Along with 1/2 tons of ammo using these new computer thingies it would also be possible to put in non-standard engines (ex. 225 in a 50 ton Mech even tho' it doesn't divide evenly). And to balance out the odd engine sizes make armor available in single digits.

This way we could look forward to odd top speeds and stop referring to Mech speeds of 5/8, 6/9, etc. The top speed would be what ever the engine divides out to be.

[Yeach]

So how much ammo for 1/2 ton AC20 or AC2 ammo.
If it gets rounded up; might be better off with 2 x 1/2ton ammo (get an extra round) if you have enough critical space like 3025 designs.

Morashtak, on 07 May 2012 - 06:15 PM, said:

Along with 1/2 tons of ammo using these new computer thingies it would also be possible to put in non-standard engines (ex. 225 in a 50 ton Mech even tho' it doesn't divide evenly). And to balance out the odd engine sizes make armor available in single digits.

This way we could look forward to odd top speeds and stop referring to Mech speeds of 5/8, 6/9, etc. The top speed would be what ever the engine divides out to be.

Some what mentioned in this thread.
http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

[Siilk]

I'd rather wanted to see a common ammo pool for similar weapons, MW2 style. That would let 1 ton of ammo feed 2 or more weapons and prevent destroyed weapon from taking it's "own" ammo down with it, like it does in MW4 or MWLL.

[Havoc2]

Siilk, on 08 May 2012 - 05:47 AM, said:

I'd rather wanted to see a common ammo pool for similar weapons, MW2 style. That would let 1 ton of ammo feed 2 or more weapons and prevent destroyed weapon from taking it's "own" ammo down with it, like it does in MW4 or MWLL.

I would agree with this for LRMs and SRMs, since they use the same ammo type and just fire more of them per salvo.

However using this with ACs would mean that AC20, 10 and 5 would all use the same ammo as an AC2. The only way to deal with that would be to have them either:
1) Fire a stream of bullets that does minor damage up to their maximum damage (focused, like a laser)
2) Fire a burst, like a shotgun or like a gatling gun but all barrels fired at the same time. Pretty sure that's what the LBX does no?

So I'd propose a mix. LRMs and SRMs all use the same ammo and can therefore share. ACs use type specific ammo due to differing calibers.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Half-tons would be nice, especially for Gauss and Heavy Cannons where every shot counts, and for Mechs where weight is an issue like "glass cannon" designs.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 08 May 2012 - 01:36 PM.

[Pvt Dancer]

I voted yes, but as far as I know, in table top only MG ammo was able to pack in half tons.

Yes, it took up a crit slot, but instead of taking 400pts of damage internally, you only would take 200pts of damage when that thing blew. Yeah... with the lack of Infantry in the game as a threat, I fail to see how MGs would be viable.

Also, do we have the option to dump ammo?

If I was Paul I would have put another small laser in the head, giving him 4 small lasers, 2 medium lasers, a AC 5 and... 2-3 MGs?

[Victor Morson]

Pvt Dancer, on 08 May 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

Yeah... with the lack of Infantry in the game as a threat, I fail to see how MGs would be viable.

It depends how faithfully they port them. On Table Top MGs have a really, really bad reputation as being a detriment, but only because most designs have two at most, with a full ton of ammo. Their actual damage isn't bad for a half ton weapon and there's some brutal gimmick 'mechs that exploit this - one half ton of ammo and 6+ MGs provides a lot of no-heat bang for your buck on light brawlers, for example, for just over 3 tons.

In short, MGs aren't a bad weapon, they're just utilized poorly on canon designs for the most part; compared to light ACs were are just horrible.

[Fresh Meat]

Yes, that is a great idea.

[Pvt Dancer]

Victor Morson, on 08 May 2012 - 05:05 PM, said:

In short, MGs aren't a bad weapon, they're just utilized poorly on canon designs for the most part; compared to light ACs were are just horrible.

I think it also depends on the recycle times of the MGs and the size of the damage packet.

Heh... I have also seen people make Mechs with no rear armor and filled with MG ammo with the goal of getting in among the enemy and then getting blown up by friendly fire or enemy cross-fire, causing a massive explosion to hopefully take out the enemy mechs as well.

[Yeach]

}{avoc, on 08 May 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

I would agree with this for LRMs and SRMs, since they use the same ammo type and just fire more of them per salvo.

However using this with ACs would mean that AC20, 10 and 5 would all use the same ammo as an AC2. The only way to deal with that would be to have them either:
1) Fire a stream of bullets that does minor damage up to their maximum damage (focused, like a laser)
2) Fire a burst, like a shotgun or like a gatling gun but all barrels fired at the same time. Pretty sure that's what the LBX does no?

So I'd propose a mix. LRMs and SRMs all use the same ammo and can therefore share. ACs use type specific ammo due to differing calibers.

How about ACs firing different number of shells because AC damage by ammo is the same (except the AC2)
AC2 x 50 (adjusted) = 100 shells
AC5 x 20 = 100 potential shells
AC10 x 10 = 100 potential shells
AC20 x 5 = 100 potential shells

So 2 tons of ammo will equal 200 shells
A burst from the AC5 fires 5 shells per shot (equal 40 rounds)
A burst from the AC10 fires 10 shells per shot (equal 20 rounds)
A burst from the AC20 fires 20 shells per shot (equal 10 rounds)

[Siilk]

}{avoc, on 08 May 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

I would agree with this for LRMs and SRMs, since they use the same ammo type and just fire more of them per salvo.

However using this with ACs would mean that AC20, 10 and 5 would all use the same ammo as an AC2. The only way to deal with that would be to have them either:
1) Fire a stream of bullets that does minor damage up to their maximum damage (focused, like a laser)
2) Fire a burst, like a shotgun or like a gatling gun but all barrels fired at the same time. Pretty sure that's what the LBX does no?

So I'd propose a mix. LRMs and SRMs all use the same ammo and can therefore share. ACs use type specific ammo due to differing calibers.

You don't get it. I was talking about weapons of exact same type using a common ammo pool, not the broad categories, like "all ACs" or "all missiles", that would be plain wrong. So, all LRMs on a mech would use the same pool while SRMs would have a different one. Same goes for ACs: ACX and ACY would not pool their ammo, their shells would be, of course, incompatible, but 2 ACYs would.

Edited by Siilk, 08 May 2012 - 10:09 PM.

[Victor Morson]

Siilk, on 08 May 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

You don't get it. I was talking about weapons of exact same type using a common ammo pool, not the broad categories, like "all ACs" or "all missiles", that would be plain wrong. So, all LRMs on a mech would use the same pool while SRMs would have a different one. Same goes for ACs: ACX and ACY would not pool their ammo, their shells would be, of course, incompatible, but 2 ACYs would.

I'm almost 100% positive that's exactly how MWO is handling it.

The only question now is what order your 'mech will use it's ammo and if you have any say in it. Using ammo from damaged locations first is a very wise move in table top, but definitely adds some extra fussing in the sim. I personally would love it as an option on the secondary displays.