139 replies to this topic

[Memory]

Rathe, on 27 November 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:

The second hero 'mech seems like it will be capable of toting 3 gauss rifles around with 4-5 tons of ammo. While a huge gauss boat fan, I can't help but be surprised that PGI would make the option possible in such a way, introducing it as a paid-only option.

Comments, thoughts?

edit: links and info here http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1499352

edit2: my math showing triple gauss will fit http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1499493

Rathe. You're a friend, and a comrade, and a member of my company. But if you actually field that ridiculous thing you will only do it on the opposite team. You seriously think that driving a mech around at 41kph with half its armor is a good idea? You will get one shot off against a competent Heavy pilot and you will die before your rifles recycle. Also with your ammo so low you are no more effective than if you had only two rifles. All that sacrifice for an alpha strike of only 45? Laughable. My 2X has an alpha strike of 60. Hell my 1X has an alpha strike of 45 and it moves at 85kph with 13 tons of armor.

3 Gauss is the worst thing you could possibly do with that mech. I'd Rather see you with 3 MGs. At least then you'd have some lasers and real armor/speed.

Edit: just realized your math is off as well. That engine requires 3 more heat sinks added before you can launch. That's 3 tons you didnt take into account.

Better math: 3.5 tons basic structure (endo )+45 tons (gauss rifles x3)+5.5 tons engine+3 tons required HS = 13 tons remaining to split between ammo and armor However you Please. That is horrible.

Edited by Memory, 28 November 2012 - 02:21 PM.

[GODzillaGSPB]

Rathe, on 27 November 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:

The second hero 'mech seems like it will be capable of toting 3 gauss rifles around with 4-5 tons of ammo. While a huge gauss boat fan, I can't help but be surprised that PGI would make the option possible in such a way, introducing it as a paid-only option.

Comments, thoughts?

edit: links and info here http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1499352

edit2: my math showing triple gauss will fit http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1499493

Your super-mega-awsome mech will be as fragile as a raw egg (xl-engine), will move slower than an Atlas (41kph) and will sport 2,5 tons of armor. Yes, 2,5 tons. LOL! There's also no room for Endosteel or FF, you need to carry the heavy stuff. And 3 heatsinks are mendatory for the xl 180, so 3 tons less than you though.

Don't believe me? I emulated it in the latest version of the Excel Mechlab:



Just look at the armor section and CRY ME A RIVER! xD

PS: You could spare 1t of ammo for 2x CASE in the right and left torso but seriously...would it make a difference?

[3rdworld]

Thontor, on 28 November 2012 - 02:04 PM, said:

yeah I came up with a similar load out. Though I used one less ammo for more armor.. Either way its a walking death trap walking that slow with that little armor.

That and your version can shoot 10 volleys, mine 13.3. either way a waste of a 70tonner

[CodeNameValtus]

3rdworld, on 28 November 2012 - 01:50 PM, said:

trip gauss would look something like this:

I guess, do you think that 40 kph, 4 tons of ammo and 288 / 434 armor is enough to make it work?

I'd say no. 288 is about the armor on a HBK, on a mech that's roughly 1.5x it's size (bigger hitboxes). 4 tons of ammo only amounts to 40 shots, while in TT this is probably alright at 4 tons of ammo, in MWO it's severely not enough. That's ~13 shots with trip GR with 1 spare shot, presuming your paper armor is ignored long enough for you to fire all these shots. At 9 hits to strip all the armor & open up the CT on an Atlas with a STD engine, 13 shots looks pretty meek. Heck, you just about need ot be headshotting every mech to make it work, and there's better configs to do that.

I mean, I suppose you can take this mech like this, and hope a light/fast medium can't roll up on you and core you before you get 1 kill. Keep in mind with your paper-thin armor and huge frame, moving slowly. They'll slice through that RA of yours, crit your GR and the explosion will tear into your RT and explode that GR coring you. So how do you really allocate that 288 armor?
The way you got it here, you are pretty much dying to a single salvo from a 4-6 MLas Jenner in the back, and even if a Gausscat hits you in the RA you are most likely going to fold up like a domino. Not to mention how easy it is to disable even 1 of those GR from a distance.

[3rdworld]

CodeNameValtus, on 28 November 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

I guess, do you think that 40 kph, 4 tons of ammo and 288 / 434 armor is enough to make it work?

I'd say no. 288 is about the armor on a HBK, on a mech that's roughly 1.5x it's size (bigger hitboxes). 4 tons of ammo only amounts to 40 shots, while in TT this is probably alright at 4 tons of ammo, in MWO it's severely not enough. That's ~13 shots with trip GR with 1 spare shot, presuming your paper armor is ignored long enough for you to fire all these shots. At 9 hits to strip all the armor & open up the CT on an Atlas with a STD engine, 13 shots looks pretty meek. Heck, you just about need ot be headshotting every mech to make it work, and there's better configs to do that.

I mean, I suppose you can take this mech like this, and hope a light/fast medium can't roll up on you and core you before you get 1 kill. Keep in mind with your paper-thin armor and huge frame, moving slowly. They'll slice through that RA of yours, crit your GR and the explosion will tear into your RT and explode that GR coring you. So how do you really allocate that 288 armor?
The way you got it here, you are pretty much dying to a single salvo from a 4-6 MLas Jenner in the back, and even if a Gausscat hits you in the RA you are most likely going to fold up like a domino. Not to mention how easy it is to disable even 1 of those GR from a distance.

Certainly not. I just made it to show that it was possible. Useful? Not a chance.

[Tigerhawk71]

Glassapults and the proposed Glassapult Mk2 will get eaten by lights. EATEN.

It's hardly "pay to win".

Win what? You're a mech that can only do one thing, only for a short time and won't stand up to anything for long.

You're a glass cannon with the added benefit of not being able to outrun an atlas.

As soon as anyone works out what you are, you're going to get murdered.

[Fugu]

I'd love to see one with that config. I'd prolly wet myself seing some guy walk slower than an Urbie with three easily breakable Gauss in an even more breakable 'Mech.

But hey, at least you wouldn't need any heatsinks!

[One Medic Army]

I just dislike that it's an option not available to the non-paying players, and it will have loadout options not available on any other chassis or variant.

I'll still totally get myself one though...

[Strikhedonia]

Kaijin, on 27 November 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

3 GR on a 70 ton mech is going to be more a liability than an advantage. So like YLW, the second hero will also be a P2L mech.

It's worse than that. At least with the YLW we had such gems as "Wall of Wang" or "Everyone go get your Wang". The new mech offers no such amusing, if juvenile, chortles.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

People doing the math are saying it'll be impossible to equip 3x Gauss unless you totally strip the Mech down to a slow speed and bare bones for armor. So maybe our worries are premature. 15 tons x 3 is a lot of weight; I know that much. I don't own a Cataphract though so someone that does needs to strip their Mech and see if they could, in theory, fit 3 Gauss in it.

[Scratx]

Bluten, on 28 November 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

People doing the math are saying it'll be impossible to equip 3x Gauss unless you totally strip the Mech down to a slow speed and bare bones for armor. So maybe our worries are premature. 15 tons x 3 is a lot of weight; I know that much. I don't own a Cataphract though so someone that does needs to strip their Mech and see if they could, in theory, fit 3 Gauss in it.

No, they're not. They're actually saying it's possible and have proven it.

What they ARE saying is that all the tradeoffs absolutely necessary to get it up and running make it very vulnerable and with low ammo.

In other words, it's theoretically possible to build and run but in practice it's a deathtrap.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Scratx, on 28 November 2012 - 07:36 PM, said:

No, they're not. They're actually saying it's possible and have proven it.

What they ARE saying is that all the tradeoffs absolutely necessary to get it up and running make it very vulnerable and with low ammo.

In other words, it's theoretically possible to build and run but in practice it's a deathtrap.

You quoted me just to repeat what I said? I think you should reread what you quoted and focus on this underlined part. "People doing the math are saying it'll be impossible to equip 3x Gauss unless you totally strip the Mech down to a slow speed and bare bones for armor." I basically said, "Ya, you can do it, but the sacrifices aren't worth it." You then quoted me to say "No, you're wrong, they can do it, but the sacrifices aren't worth it". See the fallacy here?

Edited by Bluten, 28 November 2012 - 07:41 PM.

[Tuhalu]

Sarah McCallum, on 28 November 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

It's worse than that. At least with the YLW we had such gems as "Wall of Wang" or "Everyone go get your Wang". The new mech offers no such amusing, if juvenile, chortles.

Just wait until we can do 12v12. It'll be "time to Wang Ten" >.>

[Tennex]

YAAAAAY

[Scratx]

Bluten, on 28 November 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

You quoted me just to repeat what I said? I think you should reread what you quoted and focus on this underlined part. "People doing the math are saying it'll be impossible to equip 3x Gauss unless you totally strip the Mech down to a slow speed and bare bones for armor." I basically said, "Ya, you can do it, but the sacrifices aren't worth it." You then quoted me to say "No, you're wrong, they can do it, but the sacrifices aren't worth it". See the fallacy here?

Hmm, so you did. My bad for misreading your post, and my apologies.

[Kung Poo]

If you want big damage, just put 6x srm6 on a CT-A1 and you have an 90 damage alpha strike mech. I have 2 shotted Yen lo wangs with this cheese build. Over heats in 2 shots tho so dont miss.

[Pr8Dator]

Abuse, on 28 November 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

If you want big damage, just put 6x srm6 on a CT-A1 and you have an 90 damage alpha strike mech. I have 2 shotted Yen lo wangs with this cheese build. Over heats in 2 shots tho so dont miss.

I've even pushed my pult to putting out 126 damage per alpha using 2 x LRM20 and 2 x LRM15. I've ever once (JUST ONCE) killed an Atlas out in the open with 3 volleys. Sounds OP huh? until you really use it, it sucks hahahaah glass cannon! That's what I feel about "OP" builds... you really have to use it to know if its really OP. When you try a build you think is OP, two things can happen; 1, you found that its not as OP as you think it is and you probably dying to it alot because there are alot of people using it cos its new or that they are better players. 2, you found that its REALLY OP and you have a blast of a time. So, I encourage everyone who thinks the new phract is going to be OP to buy it and try. I would definitely do so.

Edited by Pr8Dator, 28 November 2012 - 10:37 PM.

[Socket7]

3 gauss rifles that explode and do 20 damage to your mech if you take a critical hit to that section.

Paper thin armor, very low speed.

The term "Glass Cannon" comes to mind.

One lucky alphastrike from a laser loaded hunchback could take out all your weapons and do 60 damage to your mech, JUST through your own guns exploding, never mind the damage done by 8 medium lasers.

[Konrad]

Please spend sometime with the mech-lab and some basic math.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Without wasting my time reading through page after page or repetitious arguments of one sort or another, I'll just toss in my 0.02 C-Bills.

Like the Yen-Lo-Wang, I don't object to the hardpoints. They seem reasonably potent, but not necessarily stronger than the alternatives. What I do object to is the fact that, like Yen-Lo-Wang, said hardpoints are only available for MC. It should be easy enough for a C-Bill purchased version to be available, while the MC one gets the 30% bonus income and the unique pattern.

The principle of a true Free to Play game requires that any in-game capability ought to be purchasable by in-game currency, even if it can be bought with pay currency. MWO should be able to do thus, by the simple expedient of offering C-Bill versions of the Hero variants without the income boost and unique pattern.