208 replies to this topic

[Adrian Steel]

Mostly, what I want to know is: who's supplying PGI studios and with what?

I want to sample that stuff for myself.

[Diablobo]

Gee, what a coincidence. The Jenner gets ECM, has an easy-mode lagshield, and there are no collisions so they get to run riot through swarms of mechs with no concern for getting knocked over.
What was Garth's favorite mech again?
Hmmmm

Edited by Diablobo, 28 November 2012 - 09:27 AM.

[Percival Hasek]

Thats far too much effect; its a distortion of the TT equipment, and unlike anything ever used in the Mechwarrior franchise. It does not seem welcome in its current incarnation, and is overpowered upon immediate observation. The inability to lock at all does not need to be tested. Broken, OP, and its a deal breaker, a game killer as currently written.

And I do not believe that PGI will let it remain that way; I have faith in them that they will strive for improving balance over time. What confuses me is why waste time with it at all.

[FrostCollar]

30plusRAbbi, on 28 November 2012 - 08:53 AM, said:

I think this is going to force us back to more traditional, conservative tactics. There will be more emphasis on keeping the lights, at least those that may be ECM equipped, from making rushes into the midst of one's own force. Those ECM-equipped mechs will have incentive to get closer to enemy mechs, especially streak cats, and stay in close range. As the game comes along, I'd like to see more teams using this sparingly and deliberately.

One improvement I'd like to see is the ability to disrupt cap accelerators within that 180m range as well. And mutual ECM disruption would be interesting...

How do you stop them though? If you know a surefire way to prevent Jenners from getting close, especially without SSRMs, we'd all be very happy to hear.

[MaddMaxx]

Orzorn, on 28 November 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

TAG does not help unless the LRM user presses R to target them. It isn't like MWLL where LRMs will follow the TAG laser (regardless of target).

Also, please tell me how I can lock missiles on a mech I can not target? The answer is that you can not. There is no mechanic that has appeared in this game that allows the user to do such a thing. You either get a lock with R and holding the reticule over them, or you dumb fire the missiles at a spot on the ground. With SSRMs, you can only do the former.

Thus, not showing up on HUD and minimap = No lock outside of 200 meters/inside 180 meters.

I did not read where the TAG identifier will be removed if a Mech with ECM gets TAG'd? So if the TAG identifier stills shows up by/on a RED triangle, you never think to press the "R" key on that Mech? You may not get the TAG bonus but I believe it will allow you a lock from range on a TAG'd enemy Mech...

Quote

"If you are not being disrupted by an enemy ECM, any hidden Mech on the other team that you hit with a TAG laser will be revealed as if it wasn’t being hidden. This allows you and your teammates to target and lock on it for as long as you can keep the TAG beam trained on it."

That does not seem to indicate that only happens in the 20m lock band...

It would appear that good Spotters, with TAG onboard, will become worth their weight in XP.... LOL

[GODzillaGSPB]

Simple: ECM cannot be introduced without collisions. Both must be in the game at the same time or else --> chaos.

I hope PGI is thinking the same...

[Shismar]

At first, only the following variants will be ECM capable:
....


Maybe the Jenner D is not the best choice for ECM capability. But until there comes a point where they say: That's it, no other existing mechs get ECM, I certainly won't fall into the Sky is falling! chorus.

Let's see how it plays out. There are many more systems and technologies that will be coming. Will some of you cry wolf every time?

[Coolant]

General Pace, on 27 November 2012 - 03:17 PM, said:

The only defense against the Jenner zergs is SSRM. Now they will be immune to that as well? This is beyond absurd if it goes live. And as other posters have pointed out will make the commando/raven/cicada even more 2nd rate.

So stay near a mech that has ECM in Counter mode...or put a TAG laser on your mech...1 ton, 1 laser slot...

[Garth Erlam]

BigJim, on 28 November 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

What should I bring to the party? My own Jenner with ECM?
Should I use my tournament build Jenner, or my other ones?
Perhaps my Jenner-eating Cicada?

I'm only annoyed that they're using the Jenn-D, my personal favourite has always been the Jenner-F, imho that's the real connoisseur's Jenner.

/highfive!

[Alex Wolfe]

Shismar, on 28 November 2012 - 11:18 AM, said:

Maybe the Jenner D is not the best choice for ECM capability. But until there comes a point where they say: That's it, no other existing mechs get ECM, I certainly won't fall into the Sky is falling! chorus.

Mental excercise:

Let's assume Jenner D does get ECM, although I shudder to think what that'd mean about the balancing team.

Now, if you please, could you tell me: assuming the 140 kph hardcap is here to stay for a while, what would a future light mech need to have for you to consider picking it instead of a Jenner D.

(no mech names, just what capability would make it more attractive).



...



...see the problem yet?

Garth Erlam, on 28 November 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:

/highfive!

...

...any more feedback on why you intend on further buffing the strongest light mech in the game?

One would think Jenners of all sorts are already a popular enough choice. Why would anyone want to pilot anything else at this point, besides the nebulous "variety (and a clear handicap)"?

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 28 November 2012 - 11:40 AM.

[The Mecha Streisand]

FrostCollar, on 28 November 2012 - 10:23 AM, said:

How do you stop them though? If you know a surefire way to prevent Jenners from getting close, especially without SSRMs, we'd all be very happy to hear.

Jenner-on-Jenner violence is going to have to go up. Yup. I just advocated Jennercide. And wouldn't it be nice if the Cicada suddenly became relevant again!?

Seriously, there are a number of different takes on ideal lance composition. Almost no one will argue against having at least one fairly fast light mech in the lance. Lights have multiple roles, not the least of which is keeping other lights off the tails of their larger, less nimble lancemates.

Also, life without streaks is better living. God knows, someone might have to remember how to __<GASP>__ aim...

[EvilCow]

This idea is seriously making me reconsider some assumptions about this game.

[Ricama]

Aegis Kleais, on 27 November 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

No need to drama queen it. We're guinea pigs. If they see the current implementation is too powerful, they WILL adjust it. No need to blow up at every proposed change.

Why? Why do we have to spend a month or so where people have a choice: play one of the 5 ecm mechs or have a really bad day? The only hard counter to ecm is more ecm. The main soft counter is brawl blind ... with a bunch of lights. This is not even remotely obscure, just take off your ams and ammo (if you were even bothering with it), replace it with ecm and you're basically immune to missiles.

This is looking like another in the long list of failings on the part of the internal testing team and I'm really getting sick of cleaning up after paid employees for free.

[Aegis Kleais]

Ricama, on 28 November 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

Why? Why do we have to spend a month or so where people have a choice: play one of the 5 ecm mechs or have a really bad day? The only hard counter to ecm is more ecm. The main soft counter is brawl blind ... with a bunch of lights. This is not even remotely obscure, just take off your ams and ammo (if you were even bothering with it), replace it with ecm and you're basically immune to missiles.

This is looking like another in the long list of failings on the part of the internal testing team and I'm really getting sick of cleaning up after paid employees for free.

What's blowing up going to do for your frustration though? The only thing I can think of is that it might be therapeutic. And ECM seems powerful on radar, yeah, but with a 180m range, the same tried and true "Use Teamwork" tactic should be able to overcome it easily enough. ECM won't disrupt Teamspeak/Third Party Voice, so when a player is harassed by ECM, their friends won't be far away, and ECM won't help against the undivided attention of 4 Mechs.

I feel bad for their internal team. When they take their time to ensure something works as expected (already a near impossible thing to do) they are yelled at for being slow. When they miss something because they let it come out quick, they are yelled at for missing it. It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't no-win situation for them.

Personally, I'd like to see ECM live before I pass a final judgement on it. I think with good teamwork it may not be as bad as many people feel it may be.

[Aquilus]

ECM sounds great, and should promote more tactical play. We want that, don't we? It'll also make TAG more useful, something I rarely see in play. I agree that the JR7-D seems like a bit strange choice for it, as it's probably the most played Jenner. The same goes for the Raven and Commando though, giving ECM only to the most useful variant. Bit strange choice, but we'll see how it plays out.

Also, quit it with the ridiculous conspiracy theories about the devs only buffing their favourite mechs, will you? Garth's favourite is the JR7-F, which isn't getting ECM, so that makes absolutely no sense. (His build can be found on mechspecs.com if you're curious)

[Nathan Foxbane]

Disrupting TAG is a bit silly. I mean it is a reflected beam of light for an OPTICAL homing system. So unless you can disrupt the beam itself with ECM (I would love to see the physics behind that) then it should function as normal. Heck in CBT there were only two reasons to carry TAG, you had a: artillery assets armed with Arrow IV homing missiles or Copperhead artillery shells or b: you had LRM assets armed with semi-guided LRMs. TAG was immune to ECM effects because there was no logical reason to do otherwise.

Everything else however sounds close to what a I would expect of 31st century EW equipment.

[anonymous175]

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1507364

Now what ******?

Close this ***** down.

[TheSturgeon]

Zeno Scarborough, on 28 November 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1507364

Now what ******?

Close this ***** down.

FOR GREAT JUSTICE

[Orzorn]

Zeno Scarborough, on 28 November 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1507364

Now what ******?

Close this ***** down.

See folks, they listen.

Also, I apologize to the poster I was arguing with earlier about TAG. The way they presented it, to me, looked like TAG did not help. According to this new post, it DOES help. I apologize for being incorrect and concede my defeat.

Edited by Orzorn, 28 November 2012 - 01:18 PM.

[Agent of Change]

Zeno Scarborough, on 28 November 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1507364

Now what ******?

Close this ***** down.

in light of current information i agree close this thread.