196 replies to this topic

[Kudzu]

A6PackofToucans, on 08 May 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

I'm not concerned about the missiles, I'm concerned that the longest ranged weapon has a possible effective range of only 640 meters, possibly.

We got mechs that are going to be moving at 50kph and higher, and if an LRM can only effectively target out to 640 meters, then even my supposedly long range Gauss and PPC are going be shorter ranged than that, not even to consider what range an AC10 or Medium laser might have. Why would I need high magnification systems or a lead targeting computer on my mech when I can't even reach out and touch the enemy at 1000m? And if the effective ranges are 640m close, the enemy will already be literally in my face. There's no point in dedicating heavy equipment space for a C3 computer and being a command mech, your literally in the thick of things at the 600m range. Far to close for comfort for a command mech.

What I'm concerned about is if there is a very limited effective range of the weapons, all fights online are going to devolve into knife fights in a phone booth. People like to play that way, and that's fine, but I like to mix it up with some long range weapons that can strike out at 800m with some punch, like a Gauss, or ERPPC, not an AC2.

There's no time for real tactics, no time to hide behind a hill and communicate with a lancemate to do bounding overwatch over uneven terrain to get the jump on a PPC/Gauss mech with his LRM lancemate that is firing at you at over 800m+ like in the other MW games. I'm concerned about tactics being very limited, and perhaps too constricted in a small battle area.

I consider 640m medium range from all my experiences in MW2,3,4. And when you factor in the speeds and determination of the enemy mechwarrior to close the range with some of the available mechs, that 640m range is going to close FAST!! Factor in your Assaults aren't going to turn as fast as the lights and mediums and I can see how this isn't going to be my style of gameplay.

I do hope I am wrong. But I'm not liking what I'm seeing in the videos and hearing here when it comes to weapons ranges.

Oddly enough, those ranges have worked fine on the TT for decades. One of the things I'd like to know is if the environment will effect movement speeds-- busting down trees, going up and downhill, swampy ground, etc should all slow movement speeds down giving long range mechs more time to work.

[Zakatak]

I think a range increase of 33.33% on every weapon would be nice. Not being able to hit someone with "long ranged missiles" in the 31st century at 650m is a little bit ridiculous. I think 1000m is a bit long, since LRM's seeming have very shot lock-on times and reloads, but 840m would be perfect.

[MaddMaxx]

UncleKulikov, on 08 May 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

Could someone explain how we know for sure that 640m is the maximum range for the LRMs? And if it's an issue when the game is released, purchase mechs with LRMs to generate data for the devs.

Check out the first IGN Dev video. It is in there.

Don't want to spoil the surprise.

[Aegis Kleais]

Catamount, on 08 May 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

So does this mean we can just call LRMs "Ms" now?

I was thinking about calling that MTLTMRM's

(Mid-To-Longer-Than-Mid-Range-Missiles)

It's not as catchy, but just wait til you see the Clan ER variants! CERMTLTMRM! By the time you say it, you've been hit by a hundred of them.

[Kudzu]

Zakatak, on 08 May 2012 - 01:22 PM, said:

I think a range increase of 33.33% on every weapon would be nice. Not being able to hit someone with "long ranged missiles" in the 31st century at 650m is a little bit ridiculous. I think 1000m is a bit long, since LRM's seeming have very shot lock-on times and reloads, but 840m would be perfect.

Holding a beam of light in the shape of a sword is ridiculous, but I bet you cheer when you see Jedi cutting things with a lightsaber. Different universe, different rules.

[Zakatak]

KLRBNSLJABPMRM-15.

(KindaLongRangeButNotSuperLongJustABitPastMediumRange Missiles, model 15).

[Garth Erlam]

If anyone is concerned about LRM's, consider the following - (although I beat him) I had a 1 v 1 against Russ just now; me in my custom Atlas, him in an (essentially stock) Catapult C1. Having barely grazed me with a laser, but the time I reached him my head, right and left torso, and right and left arms both had orange damage (that'd be bad.) Just with two LRM 15's, no other weapons, and a max armour Atlas. If I had been a Hunchback, it would have been much, much worse.

Consider, when you look at the ranges, that you shouldn't just be standing there, watching someone hit 180 metres, and then going "well, I'm useless now." If you are on, oh I dunno a team you jumpjet back to another hill and keep firing. Not to mention those four medium lasers are nothing to sneeze at. I honestly think even the stock Catapult C1 is one of, if not the best 'Mech in the game. Sure, it requires a hell of a pilot, but it is terrifying in the right hands, because that 180-640 is nothing but pain on the receiving end.

[MaddMaxx]

Aegis Kleais™, on 08 May 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

I was thinking about calling that MTLTMRM's

(Mid-To-Longer-Than-Mid-Range-Missiles)

It's not as catchy, but just wait til you see the Clan ER variants! CERMTLTMRM! By the time you say it, you've been hit by a hundred of them.

Would that be "Incoming, Clan Extended Beyond - Mid - To - Longer - Than - Mid - Range - Range - Missiles!" or CEBMTLTMRRM's

Edited by MaddMaxx, 08 May 2012 - 01:30 PM.

[Shredhead]

MaddMaxx, on 08 May 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:

They wanted to show the "FIGHTING". Something they know is the thing we/everybody wants to see. If they had showed a carefully choreographed Stealth approach, with the Commander watching his/her Tac map screen for the 6 minutes it took the Scouts to creep in all quiet like, would that have been a better video?

Neg!

Aff?

Not affirmative on this, bro. I see your point but I too see it dismissed by the simple fact that scouts are going to be rewarded to light up as many targets as possible in as short time as possible, so no 6 minutes for your CO, no tactical placement of fire support mechs. But it's still beta, things are in flux, and I hope we'll come around with some solutions while testing. And I hope I'll be proven wrong in this. And to the devs, don't take it personal, it comes from the tiny chunks of bread you're feeding us

[Aegis Kleais]

MaddMaxx, on 08 May 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

Would that be "Incoming, Clan Extended Beyond - Mid - To - Longer - Than - Mid - Range - Range - Missiles!" or CEBMTLTMRRM's

I'm thinking Betty's just gonna abbreviate it and say "DUCK, FOOL!"

[MaddMaxx]

Shredhead, on 08 May 2012 - 01:32 PM, said:

Not affirmative on this, bro. I see your point but I too see it dismissed by the simple fact that scouts are going to be rewarded to light up as many targets as possible in as short time as possible, so no 6 minutes for your CO, no tactical placement of fire support mechs. But it's still beta, things are in flux, and I hope we'll come around with some solutions while testing. And I hope I'll be proven wrong in this. And to the devs, don't take it personal, it comes from the tiny chunks of bread you're feeding us

Ok your stuck on the Map size thing. How about if it was a video about the 24 Hours of Le Mans?

Would you prefer they show a Team in the Pit looking under the Hood, or cars racing around the track (of which you only ever see 1/3 of)?

Aegis Kleais™, on 08 May 2012 - 01:35 PM, said:

I'm thinking Betty's just gonna abbreviate it and say "DUCK, FOOL!"

Betty would replace the D with another F, add a pause... then finish. LOL

[Aegis Kleais]

I've already got my Catapult spec'd out (will have to see if the game allows me to make it)

CPLT-GRV-AA1 "Griever" based on the CPLT-C1 variant
Internals: Standard
Engine: 325XL (86kph)
Cooling: 10 Double Heatsinks
Armor: 12 Tons FF
Weapons: 2xLRM15 w/ Artemis IV FCS and 6T of ammo (720missiles/24 salvos) and 4x Medium Lasers
Equipment: Active Probe

[Zakatak]

OP should include a poll with the following options...

-600m
600-650m
650-700m
700-800m
800-900m
900-1000m
+1001m

In regards to LRM range.

[Zylo]

Garth Erlam, on 08 May 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

you jumpjet back to another hill and keep firing.

I couldn't help but notice this comment. Would this be using directional jump jets to actually jump up and back while still facing the enemy and firing or do you mean turn around and hit the jets while running in the direction of the hill?

[A6PackofToucans]

Thanks for the playtest info Garth, it's always appreciated.

Just don't underestimate your gaming communities ability to break what you have intended when it comes to peoples custom configs or exploits of the gaming rules you have created..

I already have nightmares of multiple medium mechs with 70kph speed running in with AC20's and machine gun/flamers at point blank range with this news. Plus your forgetting the reality is that not everyone is going to have the luxury of a well communicating and cohesive team when they jump online, the Dev's gaming experiences will vary from the communities in some cases.

In the years I've been playing Mechwarrior games online, a lot of times you are alone, and you do need the stand off range to help you get to cover, or to destroy your enemy at range. The ranges we're talking about here are just hard for me to get my head around. I'll certainly try it out though. Like Kudzu said, there are other factors to consider, perhaps 640m in this sim will Look like 1km in the older games?

Kudzu, there's nothing wrong with Table Top Mechwarrior gaming, but as most people who have played Mechwarrior in an online environment with random other live players knows, it's a completely different ball game when it's in real time, and first person, and you don't have 100 percent control over all of your lancemantes and their tactics, I'm sure your familiar with that.

[Damocles]

Lets all make suggestions to change something we haven't tried out yet.

Because scale in MWO is the exact same as MW234LL

[Fresh Meat]

What will the role of scouts become? I want lights to be able to call down fire upon distant mechs both on the front line and behind, but with the extremely limited range of LRMs their target assist range is limited to the periphery of the support mechs, probably well within 1000m. Furthermore, when cyclops mounting c3 are included they will fill the targeting assist role quite well, so what is left? Limiting LRMs to 640m is not conducive to a healthy scouting role, it leaves mechs isolated, vulnerable and prohibits real combat contribution.

[Zylo]

Fresh_Meat, on 08 May 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

What will the role of scouts become? I want lights to be able to call down fire upon distant mechs both on the front line and behind, but with the extremely limited range of LRMs their target assist range is limited to the periphery of the support mechs, probably well within 1000m. Furthermore, when cyclops mounting c3 are included they will fill the targeting assist role quite well, so what is left? Limiting LRMs to 640m is not conducive to a healthy scouting role, it leaves mechs isolated, vulnerable and prohibits real combat contribution.

I don't think it will be quite that bad. Sure we probably won't see a system that has mechs loaded with LRMs hiding at the far edge of the map (like higher tier WoT arty) but instead will require the LRM mechs as well as the rest of the team to move up with the scouts.

[Mchawkeye]

Damocles, on 08 May 2012 - 02:01 PM, said:

Lets all make suggestions to change something we haven't tried out yet.

Because scale in MWO is the exact same as MW234LL

uh scale is relative. Even if they were using different scales, they would feel the same from the cockpit perspective, surely?

[Kargush]

I'll be a heretic and say that I like the LRM ranges in MWLL.