Jump to content

Using General Experience On Variants We Do Not Own.


24 replies to this topic

#1 gregsolidus

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 1,352 posts

Posted 27 November 2012 - 07:08 PM

While I wholly understand the monetary rationale behind the Mech Trees and the use of multiple variants to that effect, I must ask that if I am willing to accumulate three variants worth of experience or more on a single variant of my choice and am willing to pay you real currency to have this experience converted, should I really need to waste C Bills and hanger space on two or more other variants that if given the choice I would not pilot nor even own? You make a profit either way and I get to pay for a convenience that is actually convenient.

Before you post I've already answered some of the most common misgivings


View PostPapaKilo, on 24 November 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

If you don't own a 'Mech you cannot earn XP on it. That makes sense, right? It also makes sense that you cannot place XP from another source on a 'Mech you don't own.

Not when I'm willing to give them ACTUAL MONEY to do so when it involves alleviating a grind designed to furnish them with profits.Are you against them making money?

View PostVaraxus, on 24 November 2012 - 03:10 PM, said:

If you piloted the same mech over and over again and not branching out how could you call yourself a master of the Catapult (just to name one)? You will never learn to be a Chessmaster using the same moves every game. You cant be a Master of something if you just do one thing over and over again. So to answer your question. Yes. I believe you should have to buy all three and play with all three to level them up. If not then whats the point.

That's a rather weak and arbitrary argument. The only reason you need to gain experience in three different variants of the same mech to reach Elite and do the same exact thing with an entirely different chassis with three more variants to reach Master is so you'll buy mechs and mech bays with your mech bucks, there is nothing inherently positive or beneficial about the system. Now if you wish to own three different Hunchbacks and enjoy playing with all them you still have the option of moving up the tree that way, all I am proposing is those of us who don't exactly have fun the same way you do should have the same ability to gain the benefits of the mech tree if we gain the prerequisite experience on a single variant or more of our choice and are willing to pay the monetary price for conversion. It doesn't hurt anyone and PGI still makes a profit, what is there to be against?

View PostAniquilator6, on 25 November 2012 - 04:38 AM, said:

I agree with the current system. You can't master something you don't play with.

So why am I able to place all the experience I need in a variant using GXP then sell it off? I certainly didn't play it now did I?

Edited by gregsolidus, 27 November 2012 - 07:08 PM.


#2 gregsolidus

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 1,352 posts

Posted 27 November 2012 - 07:28 PM

Ok then.

#3 gregsolidus

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 1,352 posts

Posted 28 November 2012 - 01:52 PM

Bump.

#4 gregsolidus

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 1,352 posts

Posted 29 November 2012 - 02:50 PM

Bump.

#5 Vermaxx

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bridesmaid
  • Bridesmaid
  • 3,012 posts
  • LocationBuenos Aires

Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:37 PM

The time spent earning xp also earns CB. IF you don't have to pay for the other two chassis, and you can just dump the XP into the mech entries - there is literally no money sink in the game. They're doing it to keep people grinding. Once people realize there is no real point to grinding, there is no real point to MWO and the game crashes if CW isn't done.

No, that isn't a great reason, but it is THE REASON they make you "buy" three mechs. You can turn around and resell them for half what you paid after you dump in the XP, that's really up to you. If you did that, it isn't such a huge hit unless they were all assault mechs.

I agree that driving more than one mech is meaningless. It does not make you "better" at anything, it simply forces you to use different combinations of weapons. Hence the reason you can completely skip it. I do, however, agree with the current system. XP conversion costs are pretty low, they are basically the only thing that really feels worth my money. I did it for one Catapult, then ended up playing it extensively anyway.

The game needs a money sink, and the cosmetic items currently available are not worth money. This is the system they have. It is not terrible. Yes, it could be better (ie rounded to the free player) but the game needs cash and this theoretically generates some.

In the related vein, I also agree that XP earned in a "mastered" variant is essentially wasted. I support this. It forces you to either pay something, play something else, or write the XP off.

#6 pseudolife

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • 90 posts

Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:06 PM

no. Id prefer they limit the "pay to win" as much as possible. I dont think paying real $$ should be a viable way to escape the xp grind. While it does suck to HAVE to pay money to recoup xp earned on a master mech, its pretty cheap, and once you've unlocked all the modules, what do you need gxp for? stop asking for shortcuts, if you want to try a new mech, LEVEL IT.

#7 Asmosis

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 2,118 posts

Posted 01 December 2012 - 06:24 PM

its not pay to win. Its exactly how it works right now, except you dont have to spend cbills on a couple chassis you wont use.

Also he's not asking for a shortcut as he already earned the exp. its not like hes suggesting to buy exp directly using MC, its just converting it.

Also mechs sell for 25% value. It might not matter on light/med mechs but when your buying assult mechs for 13m, losing 20-22mil for no good reason kinda sucks.

Edited by Asmosis, 01 December 2012 - 06:25 PM.


#8 gregsolidus

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 1,352 posts

Posted 03 December 2012 - 09:21 PM

View PostVermaxx, on 29 November 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

1. ...there is literally no money sink in the game. They're doing it to keep people grinding. Once people realize there is no real point to grinding, there is no real point to MWO and the game crashes if CW isn't done.
2. ...The game needs a money sink

This reminds me a lot of those posts defending streakcats, gauss rifles, and lag shields with the difference of you saying "Yeah it's wrong, so what?" now that we have mutually established there is a problem but you simply don't care we can get down to business. I'm going to break this down into succinct points for the sake of ease.

1.I could have sworn the entire point of Mechwarrior Online was to have battlemechs fight each other in various locales with various weapons, you know, like in the board game from which is was spawned and like the various other games of its lineage. I don't remember seeing "grinding" in any of the promotional material thus far, someone should let PGI know that they aren't advertising an apparently important part of the game! THE MASSES MUST BE TOLD!

Sarcasm aside, if grinding up for the grand prize of a module slot or affording that one extra variant you have no plans of using is what keeps people coming back to MWO, not the team focused a gameplay, not the mech customization, not its distinct change of pace from the norm, then you might as well change your signature to "MWO is dead" because if it can't keep people interested through core elements then grinding and fighting for fake planets won't save it either. I didn't know we were in Korea.

2. They either need to severely limit the amount of C Bills a player can amass through matches or they better start selling some AMAZING things for MC only because relying on C Bill manipulation will be their downfall. By completely ignoring the the mech tree like I have the player suffers no income loss beyond Repair and Rearm after the initial cost of loading out the one or two mechs they actually do use, compound this with the limited addition of C Bill focused features such as paint schemes and new battlemechs and your average player can become extremely rich all because they just won't play by PGI's rules.

Know I now what your thinking: "Hur dur if they have all that money why don't they just buy the extra variants". I will counter with a question myself: Why not skip the middleman of luring players into buying MC through forcing them to grind C Bills to eventually afford total of 6 different variants of two mechs of the same weight class and buying space for them through MC only mech bays for the sole benefits of being able to do things slightly better and being able to equip something that allows you to do one thing slightly better,all after hours of either playing them individually or the more popular option of simply amassing on metric **** ton of experience on the chassis of your choice and divvying it among its brethern though the MC only experience conversion system only to sell them off as quickly as you bought them, and simply allow players to amass experience where they choose, allocate general experience where they choose, and PAY ACTUAL MONEY FOR IT? You know, that stuff PGI needs so they can actually exist?

There are some severe foibles to MWO's economy given that its not a traditional one where players move up from using wooden swords to dragon steel ones with many variants in between and all at increasing a logical price intervals, but saying "making players buy 3 of the same mech so the can move up the associated perk system is what keeps the economy work" is simply wrong and also near sighted. What happens when the pilot finally masters the mech of his choice despite the ridiculous system and is no longer encumbered by buying two extra mechs until something like the Highlander comes out months from now? What happens if a player never buys these mechs with MC and doesn't even use MC for experience conversion and PGI does not make a cent of revenue despite there attempts to induce the opposite? Do you see how the system creates and inconvenience that can be circumvented without given PGI revenue but is not truly countered by a proper convenience that does. The entire idea of the monetary system is 1.Get players to spend MC on variants so they don't have to wait to buy the extra variants or simply the one they want to own 2.Get players to spend MC on mechbays for these extra variants Optional. Have players convert experience through MC, all with the mech tree being a major impetus (how many people would own more than one or two variants of a mech out of choice without the carrot of the mech tree?). If the average player is willing to completely avoid 1, concede slightly to 2, and mainly take part in 3, why not bring experience conversion to the forefront and rework its restrictions and pricing giving players more freedom and thus generating more revenue? People don't seem to be spending much MC on 1 and 2 along these lines.

View Postpseudolife, on 29 November 2012 - 11:06 PM, said:

no. Id prefer they limit the "pay to win" as much as possible. I dont think paying real $$ should be a viable way to escape the xp grind. While it does suck to HAVE to pay money to recoup xp earned on a master mech, its pretty cheap, and once you've unlocked all the modules, what do you need gxp for? stop asking for shortcuts, if you want to try a new mech, LEVEL IT.


You don't even realize the point of the grind is to get you to spend money to begin with.

Edited by gregsolidus, 03 December 2012 - 09:22 PM.


#9 gregsolidus

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 1,352 posts

Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:46 PM

Bump.

#10 focuspark

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Ardent
  • The Ardent
  • 3,180 posts

Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:12 PM

Love the idea, but as mentioned above until there's a proper economy in MWO they won't allow this. PGI lives and dies by MC purchases today and they need you to buy mechs. In fact, I'm shocked that you can purchase mechs with c-bills at all.

#11 gregsolidus

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 1,352 posts

Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:18 PM

I understand this but they STILL GET YOUR MONEY when you pay for GXP conversion, if they tweak the price they still make a definite profit while giving players an actual convenience.

#12 WardenWolf

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • 1,684 posts
  • LocationTerra

Posted 05 December 2012 - 02:11 PM

/signed

#13 Mazgazine1

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Overlord
  • Overlord
  • 368 posts
  • LocationLondon, Ontario

Posted 05 December 2012 - 02:24 PM

I would prefer a complete different skill system in general. Perhaps the goal with mastering would be a conversion of normal XP to GXP or something? Maybe a bonus? I mean after you max out the mech, the xp number is just going to increase forever... after 2 years of playing, do we really need to have a hunch or a yen-low with 2 million mech xp on it? WHY?

I think the option to pay to use one mechs XP on another is a good mid-way solution, but to make it practical has to be far cheaper then the GXP conversion.

#14 Pocket Psycho

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 340 posts

Posted 05 December 2012 - 02:55 PM

View Postpseudolife, on 29 November 2012 - 11:06 PM, said:

no. Id prefer they limit the "pay to win" as much as possible. I dont think paying real $$ should be a viable way to escape the xp grind. While it does suck to HAVE to pay money to recoup xp earned on a master mech, its pretty cheap, and once you've unlocked all the modules, what do you need gxp for? stop asking for shortcuts, if you want to try a new mech, LEVEL IT.

This idea isn't in any way related to Pay2Win, the point behind premium currency in any good F2P game is as a time saver, if someone has a lot of time then they can play comfortably without needing to pay for the game, but for someone who is working a fulltime job, has a family or kids, or has other commitments that limit how much they can play then they can pay to help make up for the lack of play time.

Pay2Win gets thrown around a lot in the wrong context, P2W means buying an actual advantage that cannot be gained without paying real money, paying real money to eliminate or reduce the grind isn't P2W, it's just saving time by spending money. A lot of people equate the time saving as P2W because people can get 'geared up' quicker, but that is only a temporary advantage and therefore isn't P2W. As an example look at World of Tanks, until recently they had premium ammo that was only purchasable via their version of MC (their gold currency), the fact that the premium ammo was so much better that the normal ammo conferred an advantage to those players that no free player could obtain, that is P2W.

Edit: Spelling... sigh there's always one glaring spelling error that you only notice 3 seconds after you have posted. Chances are there's more too.... double sigh.

Edited by Pocket Psycho, 05 December 2012 - 02:56 PM.


#15 batesman

    Member

  • PipPip
  • 47 posts

Posted 05 December 2012 - 03:33 PM

Getting back to the OP...

Just my 2 cents, but I think you should be able to become a basic, expert and master in any specific model. For example, if I love to spend my time in a specific variant and I spend alllll my time there, then wouldn't it make sense that I would become a master pilot of that variant?

#16 gregsolidus

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 1,352 posts

Posted 05 December 2012 - 03:40 PM

View Postbatesman, on 05 December 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:

Getting back to the OP...

Just my 2 cents, but I think you should be able to become a basic, expert and master in any specific model. For example, if I love to spend my time in a specific variant and I spend alllll my time there, then wouldn't it make sense that I would become a master pilot of that variant?

That was probably the system they were going to use for 3015 before the needed it to be a freemium title.

#17 gregsolidus

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 1,352 posts

Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:12 PM

bump.

#18 gregsolidus

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 1,352 posts

Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:28 PM

bump.

#19 gregsolidus

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 1,352 posts

Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:45 PM

bump.

#20 Hotthedd

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The People's Hero
  • 3,213 posts
  • LocationDixie

Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:03 PM

How do you master a variant without ever piloting that variant?

Sorry, but it is P2W.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users