55 replies to this topic

[JustPyro]

The poll here is addressing two different things.

1: The ability to save your custom made paint scheme. - this makes absolute sense. I made a sweet combo of a pattern + the colors. I now want to save this so I can apply it to ALL my mechs. Or maybe it's just for when I drop with my house/corp. I make a 2nd crazy awesome skin that I use to ID myself while out among the masses (This purple dinosaur is coming for YOU). I save this skin in spot two. And then I can quickly swap back and forth (perhaps paying each time).

2: The ability to simply "unlock" paint - this is a money making issue. And with all microtransaction run games, it's a delicate balance. If it's too much too often, the MAJORITY of your playerbase will not pay for it. F2P games are all about the majority. The 1% spending a bunch of their money isn't where the profits are. It's the 75% each spending a small to moderate amount that you target.

Based on the $50 MC line, $1 of real cash equates to 240 MC. $1-3 transactions are the bread and butter of microtransactions. Changing an entire Mech's paint color scheme should cost maybe $2, with 3 colors. This could be recharged every time you change the colors in the pattern. The pattern could cost $1 if it's a throw away, or $2 or $3 if you get to keep just the pattern, and reuse the pattern multiple times.

So, I put a camo pattern on my dragon. I put Red, White, and Blue as the colors. Say $3 for the pattern, $2 for the colors. $5 total to change the mech entirely. Having a communist day? Same patter, Red and Yellow colors. Only 2 colors this time, so it's only $1 (going with whole values here for simplicity's sake). But you keep the pattern.

Now I can move that pattern to another chassis or an entirely different mech. But to add colors, I still have to pay the $1-2. I think this adds a good medium.

Now maybe if I pay $5 to keep a color forever, that's an option. I love gold shiny mechs, I know most of my color schemes will involve gold. So $5 to reuse that color over and over might be an option.

Summary:
Poll part 1: saving color schemes YES YES YES
Poll part 2: buy 1 color keep forever, part yes, part no. This is camo phase 1. And there are many options to think about. Part of the great thing about this community is that many people here have GREAT ideas on how to find that happy middle ground between PGI getting money and keeping the community happy.

Think about TF2 (greatest F2P ever devised?) While you are given free stuff just for playing (something missing from MWO, but a much younger game can't quite follow the same model), when you do buy a hat for $1-$3 it's yours. You swap it among all your characters, but you do have to pay every time you want to repaint it. This is what I kept in mind while coming up with the above.

[StandingCow]

Don't think you are gonna get anyone voting no. When you spend real money on something you should keep it.

Edited by StandingCow, 28 November 2012 - 07:33 PM.

[o0Marduk0o]

I got the same idea. Bought MC colors/pattern should be bound to the mech to be a ble to change them for free but you have to re-buy them for every new mech. No change needed for CBill colors.

+1


EDIT: It would be even better for PGI when they save the colors for individual mechs. People won't change colors if they already bought colors with MC because they waste money this way.

With our change, people can buy any new released color/pattern they like without worrying about previous bought colors/pattern because they won't lose anything -> win-win situation.

Edited by o0Marduk0o, 28 November 2012 - 10:32 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

Pay MC for enabling the paint job - like buying a licence - for a picture

However when some one used its darn flammers to burn the color of my mech - someone has to repaint it...so i have to pay c-bills...

[EnigmaNL]

Obviously YES! Why would anybody choose no?

I think it's kinda lame we have to keep paying again and again to re-buy colours if we change them.

[Durahl]

I think the current system is not very optimal right now because it cheats you of something you already paid for.

At some point during the development of the Game I'd like to chose the maps I'd like to play and with this I'd also like to let my inner Nerd go wild by choosing the appropriate Camopattern for the map.

The current system forbids this cause with the small earnings we make it's impossible to afford the prices of regularily switching these Camopatterns

[Herrmann van Hinden]

Sorry, missing some choices here. First of all, I dont think that we Need to discuss that like Ammo this is something that you have to pay for. Not just because PGI Needs some income to feed their programmers, but also because you cant scratch the paint from the mech and re-use it. What I dont like is the fact that ist quite useless right now, but this may Change. However, if you have to invest Money upfront each fight to fit the combat area Needs, because thats what camo is for, thats not a good design. Suggestion: Define, on a mech-basis, a camo for each area-type and between those you can Switch for free. But if you alter the camo as such, so for example you want to have another camo for City at night because the old one isnt fluffy anymore, then you have to pay. One Default for everything thats undefined, and if you want a camo for each area-type, nad you could even make the Default more expensive than the subsets for each area...... that might be a good compromise, at least it is what I would like to have, and I am the Center of the universe...... I think....

[Gasoline]

Wouldn't it be easier just to unlock colors/patterns? Pay xxx MC/C-Bills/whatever to unlock a color/pattern for your mech/mechbay.

e.g. you pay 250 MC to unlock red. Red is now unlocked for this mech and whenever you switch your color sceme including red, it doesn't charge you for this color. Same for patterns... you pay whatever for unlocking the Phranken pattern and it stays with your mech.

Even more customer friendly would be to unlock colors/pattern global, so once you unlock red it is available for all of your mechs. Having a look at the currently available colors/patterns (vast lack of diversity atm) this might seem as too much, but I sense more colors and patterns incoming soon.

One could even change the pricing... casual colors (grey, brown, green, etc.) could be cheaper while more exotic colors (gold, white, black, royal colors, etc.) get a bit more costly.

It's not that I want everything for free... but the current system is a bit greedy... who would pay for something, that s/he could not keep?

[StandingCow]

Yea, I hope they tweak the system, I think there is room for this to be more fair to consumers and PGI can make money.

[Chiefi]

Hayashi, on 28 November 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

I do think a permanent unlock per chassis is a good idea. Permanent unlock for all chassis would be a bit too good to be financially viable, but as things are while people have to pay repeatedly to use, as people can only use one paint scheme at a time, it means predominantly they will only buy one paint scheme per variant - and after that, they would have the financial incentive to not change the paint ever again.

More profit can be gained if people are given the incentive to buy multiple paint types per chassis that they can change as they want, since that would raise the number of paint jobs bought from 1 to a number above 1.

There is that subsection of the population who would pay to repeatedly change paint, but it's a small one if anything. Logically, most people who belong to the paint-changing persuasion would probably buy multiple mechs of the same variant instead, paint them all using the MC, and switch between painted variants, instead of switching between paint.

Any measure that improves user experience while increasing profit (and thus improving the longevity of this game) is a good change to implement, in my book.

But I'm not a developer, so... it is our aggregate voice on this that will be heard.

^^

[EternalCore]

StandingCow, on 29 November 2012 - 02:04 AM, said:

Yea, I hope they tweak the system, I think there is room for this to be more fair to consumers and PGI can make money.

Yea I and Everyone who voted Yes Agrees!

[Scarlett Avignon]

I think we should keep the colors/patterns we buy.

Right now, it's kind of silly, because I feel so much "pressure" to make sure I get it right the first time I paint a mech, because if I don't, it's going to cost me. That's really not cool.

[Gowan]

TRIUMPH, on 28 November 2012 - 08:27 AM, said:

I would love that but it is about what makes them money.

That's the thing -- I bought one paint scheme, and when I realized that it was a permanent change and not an unlocked skin that I could swap on the fly, I decided not to buy any more -- I want my MC purchases to be permanent inventory items, not cash burners, and my friends who play MWO feel the same way.

On the other hand, if these were unlockable options (i.e., purchasing a particular pattern/color package which could be swapped out and used again without having to repurchase them for MC), my pals and I would have already purchased several of them. As far as my outfit (and others who share this view) are concerned, the pay-per-spray/per-mech model is actually costing PGI money. They got five bucks out of me, but if the system stays this way, that's as much as I'm willing to spend. I bought a Hula girl and called it a day.

As I said in a previous post, the system as it stands, rather than encouraging me to spend money on all the customization options I could want, encourages me to choose one option. Instead of purchasing a parade scheme to run with my friends and two or three random patterns to run when I pug, I bought a Phranken design for my favorite 'Phract. I will never change the paint on that mech, ever, because it would be like burning the money I spent on the first paint job in the yard. Actually, worse -- at least there's some light and heat produced in the yard. Once I change the paint on a mech in this game, I have literally nothing to show for that first investment other than a lower MC balance and (for the first time in my case) some shiny new resentment against the devs. I like the devs. I don't want to resent them for designing a system that punishes players who want to spend money on customization.

Meanwhile, my friends and I all own multiple camo and customization options for Planetside 2, and will likely continue to purchase more as SOE releases them.

The biggest issue from PGI's perspective is that this implementation may have been a coffin nail for a lot of the guys I played with, who patched their clients and logged on to play with camo schemes and were just disappointed with the implementation. Around 70% of the guys I used to play with had gotten frustrated with Phase 1 matchmaking and taken a break from MWO, and they had pinned camo schemes and Phase 2 as the things that would bring them back into the fold. Still, they're all in the same boat as me -- do they buy the parade scheme so we can look l33t as a group, or do they buy the paint scheme that they want when they pug?

Neither, as it turns out. They were frustrated by not being able to play with their friends (one of the reasons we started playing in the first place -- but they at least agreed with the necessity of fixing MM), but the camo system as implemented completely demoralized them.

I'm not trying to guilt PGI here, but the argument that they have to make money somehow is kinda thrown off kilter when their business model chases away their customers. And these guys are all Founders -- they've already demonstrated their willingness to give PGI money, but this system is so clearly exploitative and punitive to the user that it killed their enthusiasm.

tl;dr: The group of guys I play games with (about 20 guys, give or take) have spent a combined total of maybe $20 on paint for MWO; most of them don't want to buy into the system as it currently stands, and none of us who have bought paint have any plans on buying any more in the future because we don't want to lose the money we already put into it.

On the other hand, we have probably spent over $200 (combined) on camo patterns for Planetside 2 and will likely buy more in the future. The primary reason for this discrepancy isn't the limited color pallet or pattern choices, because we know that will change, but the business model, which punishes customers who want to change how their mech looks a second time. This system, in turn, has discouraged many of them to the point where I'm not sure they'll come back anyway, and it is actively dissuading those of us who stayed with the game from spending more money until we're sure that PGI isn't taking us all for suckers.

[EternalCore]

@Herrmann van Hinden, Helvyk, Rubberman, TheMightyWashburn: What was the reason for voting no?

[Hayashi]

EternalCore, on 29 November 2012 - 09:28 AM, said:

@Herrmann van Hinden, Helvyk, Rubberman, TheMightyWashburn: What was the reason for voting no?

0.0 why you drag them out one by one?

[EternalCore]

Hayashi, on 29 November 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:

0.0 why you drag them out one by one?

The Poll is public and has been from the start and it's important to hear both sides of this Discussion/petition because the more feedback the better the end results.

Niko Snow, on 29 November 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:

Great idea! Gotta throw this one in the Suggestions forum though.

It started in General Discussion because the users are mostly in that area. But yes I agree which is why I made a redirect thread in GD.

[deputydog]

how about adding the ability to buy MC with cbills? 10 mil cbills gets ya 500 mc.. just a thought so people could earn the visual upgrades just like a paying person. Or give all colors a mc/cbill cost just like mechs.

[EternalCore]

deputydog, on 29 November 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

how about adding the ability to buy MC with cbills? 10 mil cbills gets ya 500 mc.. just a thought so people could earn the visual upgrades just like a paying person. Or give all colors a mc/cbill cost just like mechs.

I doubt That will ever happen but your welcome to make a whole new suggestion thread about it.

[Raeven]

As is, I'm not inclined to buy any camo's for any of my 'Mechs. I'd rather spend my MC on Hero 'Mechs, 'Mech Bays, and cockpit baubles. Things I get to keep. I see an easy way to modify the system that would take very little effort.

Camo Slots per Chassis

• Just like 'Mech Bay slots, you get the default per chassis and can buy as many as you want.
  
• Player retention of skins encourages the purchase of multiple skins.
  
• Skin Ownership = More purchases = More money.
  
• Requires no changes to current Camo economic system.

Specifics of Camo Slots

• Each slot can hold one custom skin design, as paid for.
  
• 125/500 MC per permanent slot

Edited by Raeven, 29 November 2012 - 11:05 AM.

[MaverickCDN]

The overly greedy (IMO) current approach won't necessarily lead to more money for PGI. I expect there will be many like me who won't spend a single cent on the current cosmetics because they just aren't worth it. I would be willing to pay for "unlocking" paint colours and schemes, I would probably buy quite a few in fact so that I would be able to change colors and patterns frequently on all of my mechs. If they want to charge c-bills for each reskin to another owned skin/colour combo, that would be fine as well. I would probably spend at least $10 to get a (small) nice selection and could be tempted to spend more when new patterns and mechs are added. This would also allow those who like to "collect them all" to spend more money and own all colours and camos if they wanted. As it is the only way to collect customization options would be to own enough mechs top apply them all at once.

By overpricing these items PGI will get $0 for something I'd be willing to pay $10+ for if it was more reasonably (again IMO) implemented.

They should look at TF2 for inspiration. There are collectors spending a lot of real money on basically fluff items for that game, but that would not be the case if they lost thier fancy hat every time they wanted to wear a different one for a while.

Edited by MaverickCDN, 29 November 2012 - 11:15 AM.