22 replies to this topic

[statler]

Curious what population thinks on this one, as i think this particular mech upgrade says a lot about the proposed xp system.

Thanks,

edit: some clarification...

weapon convergence time is the time it takes say a weap on each arm going from being aimed at a long distance to adjusting to something 20 yard in front of you. before converging the weapons will hit the same distance apart as both arms are apart, after zeroing in, they will hit the same spot (where your target is pointed). when you have something targeted, the targeting computer would have to move actuators on the weapons/arms/etc to center on the target. Here are some examples of how to cancel each of these choices out in the game:

A: effectively have a smarter targeting system that starts zeroing in on the target closest to what you have your sights on, instead of actually needing to keep the target in your sites to keep the centering process going.

B: dont have any differences between variants of the same chassis as far as options for better targeting systems or heavier actuators.

C: dont have the targeting computer/actuators tied to mech xp.

somebody had a good point about it being varied by you taking a hit or moving fast/being bounced around, and i dont think i should add that to the poll, as that should happen to all mechs across the board independent of any convergence improvement options. i will add a none of the above option though, as that should be a valid choice.

and yes of course i am in the A B boat, because that is what i see as an even playing field, but most real time games have been moving to an xp advantage reward type of system, so i am just trying to see a distribution example that drives that kind of game development.

Edited by statler, 04 February 2012 - 10:12 AM.

[Paul Inouye]

le sigh...

[Cruiser]

I feel your pain Paul.

[Solis Obscuri]

Cruiser, on 03 February 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

I feel your pain Paul.

Ditto.

[Kenyon Burguess]

it's ok Paul, polls keep people occupied. kinda like a kitten and a ball of yarn.

i really like the fact that the more time you use one mech the better you get at it.

[trycksh0t]

I'm voting B&C on this one, although I do feel Paul's pain. Why B&C? Because a 'Mechs weapons are NOT DIRECTLY CONTROLLED BY THE MECHWARRIOR! (Sorry for shouting, but this constant misbelief is getting on my nerves).

[Durant Carlyle]

To be honest, nothing should decrease weapon convergence time. Once a BattleMech's design is finalized and it's mass produced, it should be set in stone for that chassis. Simply spending more time in the cockpit wouldn't affect the actual time.

However, I think what the efficiency tree is alluding to is that a MechWarrior that spends loads of time in the cockpit of the same 'Mech will develop some shortcuts that make it seem like the weapons are tracking faster. They're not actually tracking faster, but some other steps in targeting are being optimized (or simply skipped over) and that has the same effect. Maybe he's herding the enemy pilot into the path of the weapons by using his superior piloting skill, or some such.

Edited by Durant Carlyle, 03 February 2012 - 09:14 PM.

[MonkeyDCecil]

trycksh0t, on 03 February 2012 - 08:39 PM, said:

I'm voting B&C on this one, although I do feel Paul's pain. Why B&C? Because a 'Mechs weapons are NOT DIRECTLY CONTROLLED BY THE MECHWARRIOR! (Sorry for shouting, but this constant misbelief is getting on my nerves).

The whole mech is controlled by the mechwarrior though the neronet helmet. I could be wrong. I know that there is a lot of computer control, in our current war machines. But I thought the neronet helmet connected the mech with the mechwarrior for better control. And that if you were stealing a mech or just getting one for the first time, you were at a disadvantage. Tell the nerolink became used to your brainwaves. I could be wrong though.

I voted A&B&C

Edited by MonkeyDCecil, 03 February 2012 - 09:30 PM.

[Dlardrageth]

I voted "D". Which incidentally doesn't show up in the poll...

None of the above IMO, although "C" might be a step in the right direction, and "A" is so obvious a mere matter of gameplay controls we don't know anything about yet (assuming pilot=player). it doesn't need a vote. I think just the time "sitting" in a Mech (or that Mech sitting in your hangar) shouldn't give any perks. Actually having played considerably more matches in the Mech (excluding "training mode") might give a slight bonus. As in you "specialized" in that Mech or even "leveled" it. So you became more than just average proficient with it. Might be a nice incentive towards more specialization, even if the actual bonus is rather modest.

Also seems convincing that someone who has ridden his Mech into 500+ battles would be somewhat more versed in how to use it than someone who has only 20 battles in it under his belt. That is, if the overall design/balance doesn't specifically rule out any convergence variations.

[Durant Carlyle]

MonkeyDCecil, on 03 February 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

The whole mech is controlled by the mechwarrior though the neronet helmet. I could be wrong. I know that there is a lot of computer control, in our current war machines. But I thought the neronet helmet connected the mech with the mechwarrior for better control. And that if you were stealing a mech or just getting one for the first time, you were at a disadvantage. Tell the nerolink became used to your brainwaves. I could be wrong though.

He meant that a MechWarrior does not directly control the aiming point of the weapons. He simply tells the targeting computer to lock onto a target (ie, that Jenner over there), and then hits the weapon activation buttons. The targeting computer does the actual aiming then fires.

This is being simulated for us by "weapon convergence time" in the game.

[TheRulesLawyer]

None of the above. It should be down to things like movement, taking damage and recoil.

[CobraFive]

I voted C because it is very obviously the one no-one is supposed to pick to make a point and I am just that kind of guy.

[Liam]

I think some ppl misunderstand convergence stuff, If we can fill more that one pilot tree (let say the cap is by 1.5), I dont't think it will be such a big issue.

[metro]

Paul Inouye, on 03 February 2012 - 05:34 PM, said:

le sigh...

Geist Null, on 03 February 2012 - 05:49 PM, said:

it's ok Paul, polls keep people occupied. kinda like a kitten and a ball of yarn.

Some of us are with ya Paul.

@ Geist, its due to the fact....the same ole topics get kicked around like a dead horse. Its clutter now.... Just because you change how you ask the question, doesnt make it a new one.

I can tally POSTS repeated and repeated again over the same topics. I am for one , tired of wading through horse meat to find a good steak topic on here.


the OP should have just posted what he/she would like the game to provide.

Edited by Metro, 04 February 2012 - 06:17 AM.

[renegade mitchell]

What should replace weapons convergence time? Not having it.

[Wulfbane]

Metro, on 04 February 2012 - 06:14 AM, said:

Some of us are with ya Paul.

@ Geist, its due to the fact....the same ole topics get kicked around like a dead horse. Its clutter now.... Just because you change how you ask the question, doesnt make it a new one.

I can tally POSTS repeated and repeated again over the same topics. I am for one , tired of wading through horse meat to find a good steak topic on here.


the OP should have just posted what he/she would like the game to provide.

Well that not fully true. i made the solaris topic and no one else made one. it got a lot of replys. my new topic is pirates. I just keep coming up with update ideas for later. solaris has been said to go online but at a later date. pirates was just some idea for the lone wolf like bounty hunters. Hopefully i can get something out of the bag. ????
EDIT:Solaris is back online

Edited by Wulfbane, 04 February 2012 - 03:28 PM.

[Sug]

If anything affects convergent times it should be something like the movement of the mech, the heat level of the mech, how damaged the mech is, weapon recoil etc.

Things like those should be managed by the pilot, and as the pilot gets better, his/her convergence times will go down.

Now if it's not possible to include all those factors in the game, i could see how things like pilot talent points can simulate how a more experienced pilot would better manage his mech.

Gotta remember in the context of the game it's not you piloting the mech, it's your character.

Edited by Sug, 04 February 2012 - 10:48 PM.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

If you accept that torso weapons are "turreted" to allow some movement to enable them to converge, then it follows that they will take time to do so. Arm mounted weapons may also need to do so over a limited arc to allow convergenge for multiple weapons mounted on one arm.
For those who insist that they are the ones who do the aiming there is a solution. They have to manually aim each individual weapon before firing, as this is what they are insisting they are doing, not the mechs computer systems. Which apparently is "auto-aiming".

[Mchawkeye]

i don;t think movement should affect convergence time at all; that's basically just turning it into the rng/CoF/whatever shenanigans again. it should represent the turrets tracking and refocusing on target. it should take at most a couple of seconds and should be purely affected by the capabilities of the targeting computer.

Now the question is....where s neutral? so two laser no targets in sight. do they converge 'at rest' so to speak at maximum range? or at half range?
So say they are at rest and a mech jumps out from behind a rock like a boogie monster (lets use the urbie then, for this example) should the convergence take significant;y longer to re-purpose for close range? if so the urbie has a few seconds more time until complete death.

If those lasers are set at half range, as a compromise, refocusing for effect should take less time, perhaps? I do hope we can set convergence, even if it's just in the mech lab and set for the duration of the battle rather than on the fly.

Or am I over complicating matters?

[Star Ranger]

I know that people are looking for the edge on the feild but to the casual player who does not have hours to spend in the cockpit of his mech what is keep him from being over run and discuraged by the game if perks like this exist