35 replies to this topic

[Teh Rav3n]

It's finally time to upgrade, and I've been busy chinking away at the list today. Looking to move into a SFF build to save some much needed real estate in the office/cockpit.

With all the talk of Haswell being BGA only chips, instead of LGA, no sense in waiting around. Soooo, here's where it's headed.

================================================================

Hardware


Case: Bitfenix Prodigy

Mobo: AsRock Z77e-itx

Cpu: i5 3570k ~ will be delidding for direct to die cooling.

Mem: 8Gb Samsung ELV 1600Mhz Low profile (the ones that oc like mad, up to 2400Mhz in some cases, and low profile to clear the cpu waterblock)

GPU: MSI R7950 TF III

SSD: Mushkin Chronos DX 128Gb (x2) Raid 0

HDD w/ SSD cache: WD Velociraptor 500Gb 64Mb cache (program drive for what won't make much of a performance difference by being on the OS ssd drive) w/ Mushkin Atlas 64Gb mSata ssd for SSD caching w/ Intel Rapid Storage.

Storage HDD: (2x) 3Tb Seagate ST3000DM001

=================================================================

Cooling:


TIM: Coolabratory Liquid Pro

Cpu block/pump: Swiftech Apogee Drive II (Swiftech Apogee HD block, mated to the MCP-35X DDC pump)

GPU block: WaterCool Heatkiller 79X0 Nickle/black

Radiator: AlphaCool NexXxos UT60 240mm, possibly to add a UT45 140mm in the rear exhaust fan position if temps deem it necessary. We'll see.

Fittings: Bitspower rotaries, compressions, etc.

Fans 120mm: (x2) XSPC Xinruilian 2000 RPM

Fans 140mm: (1) XSPC Xinruilian 1350 RPM

Fan 180mm: Silverstone AP-181 (already have, provides top down cooling NB/VRM's/mem on my old Lian Li tech station)

Fan Controller: AquaComputer Aquaero 5 LT (no room for the Pro/XT model w/ a display. Besides, the display is just for eyecandy anyway).



Anything else anyone can think to stuff into an ITX case?

Edited by Teh Rav3n, 28 November 2012 - 05:56 PM.

[Vulpesveritas]

Well, first off, Haswell is supposed to be LGA still if you want to wait for the possible last LGA CPUs from Intel. Broadwell (Haswell's successor) is the one with all the talk of BGA. And Haswell is only a few months out.

Otherwise.... I'd recommend opting for a Samsung 840 SSD as your primary. It has a much more stable controller and is faster. The Pro version of it is the fastest and most stable currently on the market.

Edited by Vulpesveritas, 29 November 2012 - 05:35 AM.

[Sen]

I cannot recommend Asrock boards. I have had 2, and had to replace 2 due to stability/high voltage issues.

When I say stability here, I'm not talking overclocked, I'm talking bone stock having voltage issues and low voltage lockups/crashes requiring significant voltage increases to even begin to attain stability. In both cases, replacing the boards fixed these issues.


Also, you can save a few bucks on RAM. . you won't see much of a performance gain over around 1600 unless you're heavy benching. Real world application I've seen no difference between 1600 and 2133. 1866 is a nice medium. [also, if you're planning on overclocking, higher ram frequencies stress the IMC, which can in turn lower your overclock]

Last, I cannot recommend SSD raid. I've done it in 3 separate systems, only one of them has had no issues. Mushkin has a chronos 240 SSD for $165 on newegg as a comparable piece. [or splurge and get two of THOSE in raid /shrug]

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820226237

As to the rest of the drives, I don't really think you're going to see any kind of real world improvements with all those drives, but that's just my opinion and I have nothing to back it up with. I keep my cache and documents on a standard 7200 RPM HDD, programs on the SSD [I don't load a ton of programs] and let the system do it's job. Keep in mind, HDD = load times, not overall game performance.

Just some opinions. . it's your rig, the important part is building it

Edited by Sen, 29 November 2012 - 05:11 AM.

[Vulpesveritas]

Sen, on 29 November 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

I cannot recommend Asrock boards. I have had 2, and had to replace 2 due to stability/high voltage issues.

When I say stability here, I'm not talking overclocked, I'm talking bone stock having voltage issues and low voltage lockups/crashes requiring significant voltage increases to even begin to attain stability. In both cases, replacing the boards fixed these issues.


Also, you can save a few bucks on RAM. . you won't see much of a performance gain over around 1600 unless you're heavy benching. Real world application I've seen no difference between 1600 and 2133. 1866 is a nice medium. [also, if you're planning on overclocking, higher ram frequencies stress the IMC, which can in turn lower your overclock]

Last, I cannot recommend SSD raid. I've done it in 3 separate systems, only one of them has had no issues. Mushkin has a chronos 240 SSD for $165 on newegg as a comparable piece. [or splurge and get two of THOSE in raid /shrug]

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820226237

As to the rest of the drives, I don't really think you're going to see any kind of real world improvements with all those drives, but that's just my opinion and I have nothing to back it up with. I keep my cache and documents on a standard 7200 RPM HDD, programs on the SSD [I don't load a ton of programs] and let the system do it's job. Keep in mind, HDD = load times, not overall game performance.

Just some opinions. . it's your rig, the important part is building it

Were these boards purchased before or after AsRock became their own company in 2010? Because you know they were nothing but low-end Asus boards before then. Since then I haven't heard of many issues coming from their boards, and no more than I've heard off of Gigabyte and Asus complaints. Statistically speaking, their failure rates in 2011 were all within a single standard deviation of each other.

I also have to agree on the RAM, stick to 1600mhz for price / performance.

And I can't really recommend Sandforce controller drives like the Chronos, given that they don't have the stability of the Marvel or Samsung controllers.

[Teh Rav3n]

Vulpesveritas said:

Well, first off, Haswell is supposed to be LGA still if you want to wait for the possible last LGA CPUs from Intel. Broadwell (Haswell's successor) is the one with all the talk of BGA. And Haswell is only a few months out.

Otherwise.... I'd recommend opting for a Samsung 840 SSD as your primary. It has a much more stable controller and is faster. The Pro version of it is the fastest and most stable currently on the market.

Yeah my bad, I misremembered what I was reading a few nights before about Broadwell, 19 hour day and little sleep Regardless, I already have my current system sold, so waiting is out. As for stability, I'm regular on my backups, because I do bench quite a bit. Besides, I'm a little bored w/ the M4's I've been running heretofore. Basically, I'm just wanting to take a stab at the unlocked firmware Sandforce and see, for the increased IOPS and write speed.

I also have a NIB 128Gb M4 sitting here in case of any problems w/ the Mushkin drive necessitating an RMA.

Sen, on 29 November 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

I cannot recommend Asrock boards. I have had 2, and had to replace 2 due to stability/high voltage issues.

When I say stability here, I'm not talking overclocked, I'm talking bone stock having voltage issues and low voltage lockups/crashes requiring significant voltage increases to even begin to attain stability. In both cases, replacing the boards fixed these issues.


Also, you can save a few bucks on RAM. . you won't see much of a performance gain over around 1600 unless you're heavy benching. Real world application I've seen no difference between 1600 and 2133. 1866 is a nice medium. [also, if you're planning on overclocking, higher ram frequencies stress the IMC, which can in turn lower your overclock]

Last, I cannot recommend SSD raid. I've done it in 3 separate systems, only one of them has had no issues. Mushkin has a chronos 240 SSD for $165 on newegg as a comparable piece. [or splurge and get two of THOSE in raid /shrug]

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820226237

As to the rest of the drives, I don't really think you're going to see any kind of real world improvements with all those drives, but that's just my opinion and I have nothing to back it up with. I keep my cache and documents on a standard 7200 RPM HDD, programs on the SSD [I don't load a ton of programs] and let the system do it's job. Keep in mind, HDD = load times, not overall game performance.

Just some opinions. . it's your rig, the important part is building it

I agree for the most part, especially concerning real world usage, and the lack of being able to tell much of a difference (if any, w/o benchmarking or in large file transfers). I ended up swapping the WD VR/Atlas in favor of a 750Gb Seagate Momentus XT (w/ 8Gb SLC ssd caching) for the alternate program drive, mostly due to missing out on the sale price of the Velociraptor (sold out). Which in turn, would've worked out cheaper with the VR sale price w/ the Atlas. Seagate not being my favorite brand...But, C'est la vie.

Due to the fact that Amazon only had one of the Mushkin 128Gb in stock, I did swap to the 256Gb version, but it's the faster DX version with toggle nand, and the unlocked Sandforce firmware. Although, I do have to note that I have had zero problems out of my M4's raid 0 array. The OCZ Vertex Turbo's I was running prior to the M4's were another matter entirely. Pain in my ..., doesn't even begin to describe it.

As Vulpesveritas mentions below, AsRock has come a long way since being the low end manufacturer under Asus wing. But yeah, I wouldn't touch any of their old boards w/ a gauss round @ max range. They are well on their way to Tier 1 status in mobo's, and this particular board model has quite a few rave reviews.

Besides, I'm not a fan of daughter boards like the Asus uses, especially where power delivery is concerned. And EVGA is dragging their heels releasing their Z77 Stinger itx, not to mention too pricey for the lack of features, but that's just EVGA for you. Giga w/ their 4+1 power phase, not something I'd take the risk of OC'ing on at all.

MSI's not an option for the same reasons as Giga's (although Gigabyte's offering isn't touted as being a performance board). Too few VRM's by far on MSI's, and their track record isn't so hot on their mobo's, as their low quality VRM's...when they burst into flames. Paranoia? Maybe, but I had a 890GXM-G65 burn that same way at stock speeds w/ a 125w Thuban onboard. Well w/in TDP supposedly. :/

I wish MSI's mobo division would take some cues from their GPU side of the family, where they do things right.


The Sammie memory is 1600 Mhz factory rated (and dirt cheap @ $32 -8/Gb. Unlike the crazy expensive SuperTalent Project X *Elpida Hyper MGH-E IC's* I have. Selling them, because I no longer have anything that uses 1.65v mem), but oc'ing to 2133-2400 is pretty common with these Samsungs. Those freq's would strictly be for bench sessions. Thanks for the advice, much appreciated.

Vulpesveritas, on 29 November 2012 - 05:41 AM, said:

Were these boards purchased before or after AsRock became their own company in 2010? Because you know they were nothing but low-end Asus boards before then. Since then I haven't heard of many issues coming from their boards, and no more than I've heard off of Gigabyte and Asus complaints. Statistically speaking, their failure rates in 2011 were all within a single standard deviation of each other.

I also have to agree on the RAM, stick to 1600mhz for price / performance.

And I can't really recommend Sandforce controller drives like the Chronos, given that they don't have the stability of the Marvel or Samsung controllers.

I've seen exactly the same w/ more recent AsRock boards, and at this point, coming from a 1090T Gigabyte 990FXA-UD5 with which I've had a couple of problems (PCI & a PCI-e slot died, super slow POST even w/ 3255 Mhz NB & 115 Mhz BCLK, big Vcore sag under full load no matter the LLC setting or BIOS firmware. Ended up having to volt modding to stabilize Vcore. Warranty Voiders R Us! Lol), and an Asus P8P67 Pro / 2600K build which has given it's fair share of issues too... they're resting on their laurels whilst AsRock is nipping on their heels. Time for something new.

I think it says a lot, when Asus is rumored to be making bid's to purchase AsRock.

As for the Sandforce issues, well I'm willing to take the chance for higher performance, and I'm on friendly terms with Nick @ Mushkin if I have any problems, and a backup drive at the ready. I guess I'd say it's pretty well covered.

Edited by Teh Rav3n, 29 November 2012 - 02:07 PM.

[Vulpesveritas]

Teh Rav3n, on 29 November 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

I think it says a lot, when Asus is rumored to be making bid's to purchase AsRock.

As for the Sandforce issues, well I'm willing to take the chance for higher performance, and I'm on friendly terms with Nick @ Mushkin if I have any problems, and a backup drive at the ready. I guess I'd say it's pretty well covered.

Samsung 830s & 840s have higher read times than sandforce drives, and 840 pros are faster in all benchmarks. the 840 pros also come with a free game and a 5 year warranty.

In some cases, the 840 pro is actually twice as fast as the Crucial M4. Which is somewhat insane given SSDs are generally considered to be as fast as each other.


And it is still well ahead of the Sandforce drives.

As for Asus / AsRock go, given that Asus has been looking for fabs other than Pegatron to make their boards at, a buyout seems unlikely to me.

[Sen]

Technically they had a decent rep before Asus sold them off in 2010. I actually RMAd a socket 2011 Asrock board AND 3930k last March due to stability at stock issues that almost PERFECTLY mirrored the problems I was having with my last build, a 2600k with an 1155 Asrock [P67 Extreme4 in that case. . I wanna say the 2011 was the extreme9? It was w/e high end was.

So in Mar. I ended up with a 3930k with a rampage IV extreme. . and my wife inhereted the 2600k with the Extreme4, which was O/C'd to like 4.2/4.3, with 1.375v and was stable enough that i only got yelled at once or twice a week about freezing and restarts.

until last week, when I decided to try to put it back stock. . followed by a harrowing 4 hours trying to get the thing to even power on. Gave up, ordered an MSI Z77 Big Bang and a cooler master haf XB case and an H100. . called it an anniversary present [Being married to a gamer is the ultimate!!!!!!!!!!] and haven't had a single problem since. . and the voltage @ 4.2 auto button overclock is around 1.285v

As far as SSD, I'm running a Mushkin Chronos 240Gb. . they finally got the sandforce firmware right. . haven't had any issues. Wife has a set of Samsung 830s [would freeze in my rig, in raid or singly, but NOOOOOO. . they WORK in hers] and they're not bad either.

And I hope Asus DOES reaquire Asrock. . maybe QC will improve ; )

Edited by Sen, 29 November 2012 - 03:20 PM.

[Vulpesveritas]

Sen, on 29 November 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

Technically they had a decent rep before Asus sold them off in 2010. I actually RMAd a socket 2011 Asrock board AND 3930k last March due to stability at stock issues that almost PERFECTLY mirrored the problems I was having with my last build, a 2600k with an 1155 Asrock [P67 Extreme4 in that case. . I wanna say the 2011 was the extreme9? It was w/e high end was.

So in Mar. I ended up with a 3930k with a rampage IV extreme. . and my wife inhereted the 2600k with the Extreme4, which was O/C'd to like 4.2/4.3, with 1.375v and was stable enough that i only got yelled at once or twice a week about freezing and restarts.

until last week, when I decided to try to put it back stock. . followed by a harrowing 4 hours trying to get the thing to even power on. Gave up, ordered an MSI Z77 Big Bang and a cooler master haf XB case and an H100. . called it an anniversary present [Being married to a gamer is the ultimate!!!!!!!!!!] and haven't had a single problem since. . and the voltage @ 4.2 auto button overclock is around 1.285v

As far as SSD, I'm running a Mushkin Chronos 240Gb. . they finally got the sandforce firmware right. . haven't had any issues. Wife has a set of Samsung 830s [would freeze in my rig, in raid or singly, but NOOOOOO. . they WORK in hers] and they're not bad either.

And I hope Asus DOES reaquire Asrock. . maybe QC will improve ; )

Asus only has a .01% lower failure rate than AsRock according to 2011 statistics. (and Asus in turn had a .02% higher failure rate than Gigabyte) Quality control isn't an issue for AsRock.
Sounds to me that you just have bad luck.

[Teh Rav3n]

The main reason I'm concerned with considering the 840 Pro atm, is the firmware issue killing drives in the reviews. I know it's a pre-production problem, and according to Samsung, it's been fixed in the production models w/ newer firmware revisions. Still, it puts me a little on edge. I still might get one, but drives completely bricking themselves...are a bit worrisome, and I'd almost rather wait until they rack up some mileage before investing in one. I've been debating myself over that one for a while.


http://www.anandtech...40-pro-failures

Corsair's pretty much an unknown factor w/ the Neutron series and the LAMD controllers in terms of longevity. MTBF means little anymore in terms of realistic usage. I've had enough of OCZ and their RMA system, not an option. Idk, still not sure what I'll do. I very well may just spin that Chronos DX around back to Amazon in favor of something else. It's being sent back. See edit below.


As far as the AsRock issue goes, I seriously hope Pegatron turns Asus's offer(s) down. We need more competition in the mobo (and x86 cpu!) arena, not less. Simply because competition's good for the end users, and especially for our wallets.


Edit: I bit the bullet deciding the risk was no less, or more than the Sandforce drives, and have the Sammie 840 Pro on the way. Besides, Samsung was really good to me back when they repaired my lcd tv out of warranty free of charge (sent a tech to do the repair in home even). Hard to beat that level of customer service.

Edited by Teh Rav3n, 29 November 2012 - 05:44 PM.

[Sen]

Bad luck, maybe. One board I could understand, but BOTH? If I did it over, I'd probably go MSI to save myself a few bucks. . but I can't deny the Rampage IV is the most solid board I've ever run. . even if it does take an extra 10 seconds to post.

Either way, the whole ASRock thing is simply my experience. I won't buy anything from them anymore as is because I've had such a miserable time with em'. As far as COMPETITION between manufacturers go, It's very possible that it'll become a non issue with Broadwell, as soldered on CPUs will effectively annihilate the motherboard industry. [There are a lot of unknowns surrounding it, and there's a whole thread in the hardware forums with all the fun info ]

[Vulpesveritas]

Sen, on 29 November 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

Bad luck, maybe. One board I could understand, but BOTH? If I did it over, I'd probably go MSI to save myself a few bucks. . but I can't deny the Rampage IV is the most solid board I've ever run. . even if it does take an extra 10 seconds to post.

Either way, the whole ASRock thing is simply my experience. I won't buy anything from them anymore as is because I've had such a miserable time with em'. As far as COMPETITION between manufacturers go, It's very possible that it'll become a non issue with Broadwell, as soldered on CPUs will effectively annihilate the motherboard industry. [There are a lot of unknowns surrounding it, and there's a whole thread in the hardware forums with all the fun info ]

Statistically speaking, it's going to happen. I've heard twice of somoene going through three or more Gigabyte boards in a row,and Gigabyte has the lowest failure rate on the market. So it's not limited to AsRock. Whether you go Asus, GIgabyte, or AsRock, you have about a 1/300 chance of a bad motherboard by 2011 statistics. MSI has a higher failure rate, so eh.

Competition-wise, AsRock packages more features / $$$, so they're well set against the competition. ECS will hold on since they own Acer. Pegatron is the fab for some HP and Dell motherboards, so AsRock will be fine.

Edited by Vulpesveritas, 29 November 2012 - 06:01 PM.

[Teh Rav3n]

I'm really interested to see how the whole Broadwell BGA thing plays out, if it even does for anything aside from strictly lower consumer level chips (which honestly makes a good deal of sense). The enthusiast in me screams Huh-elll no! Idk, but I would really doubt that LGA goes the way of tape drives with the markup the the Extreme series chips have in them, Not to mention the propensity a small portion of that market have for buying a cpu of the same exact arch that's clocked 100 Mhz more than the previous model repeatedly throughout the life span of that series. Granted, there's no where near the profitability in that market vs. the server market, but who influences more purchase decisions as far as friends and family go? Enthusiasts. Powerful word of mouth advertising for free, as long as you keep them happy.


The more thought I give the subject, the more I think that Intel would (and indeed should) realize how much they'd be shooting themselves in the foot by releasing Broadwell in BGA only. Not to mention, try getting an enthusiast to even glance at an Intel mobo (ok, aside from a Skulltrail), ever.


Back on topic: I just received an email stating that the Aquaero 5 LT was just a phantom in the inventory. Lame, it looks like I'm going to be waiting for a while. AquaTuning's expecting them mid December, and I'm waiting for a response from another couple of vendors.

Edited by Teh Rav3n, 29 November 2012 - 07:11 PM.

[Teh Rav3n]

Not having a good day here... Shipping boxes started arriving today. Lo & behold the box with the mobo/cpu/hdd's/ssd (the one I intended to return) were just thrown into a box, and beat themselves against one another the entire way with zero cushioning in the shipping box.


The ssd received the worst of the damage, with a crushed and torn packaging around the window & a dent in the casing. Good thing I ordered the 840 Pro, and planned on sending this one back eh?


I had a little bit of a problem when I attempted to put the GPT partition table on the 2nd 3Tb. Disk management balked, and froze in the midst of. So I rebooted into GParted and I'm guessing it may have been a driver issue, because it partitioned fine in GParted w/o further protest. I'd send the HDD's back, except they were packaged individually in a suspension packaging (Amazon's Frustration Free packaging). So I don't foresee an issue w/ them...I hope.


The mobo box came out unscathed, but a fin on the cpu hs is bent. Nbd, that goes in the junk pile, and I'll likely end up using it to cool another high power LED for a projector bulb conversion. 3500 lumen 100w LED's ftw.


The R7950 TF III also hit my doorstep, albeit w/ no packaging problems, nor damage. Yay?!? Although I'm still waiting on the waterblocks/rad/case/840 Pro/fans & assorted other bits & pieces. Some will be here tomorrow, the rest spread out over Monday, and the case on Tuesday. I'll be de-lidding the cpu probably late next week, as it's a good idea to check out the rest of this hardware that's taken a beating in transit before voiding warranties!


And I'm in the process of migrating data between old drives & new. Boring as...yeah well, you know.

[Vulpesveritas]

Teh Rav3n, on 30 November 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

Not having a good day here... Shipping boxes started arriving today. Lo & behold the box with the mobo/cpu/hdd's/ssd (the one I intended to return) were just thrown into a box, and beat themselves against one another the entire way with zero cushioning in the shipping box.


The ssd received the worst of the damage, with a crushed and torn packaging around the window & a dent in the casing. Good thing I ordered the 840 Pro, and planned on sending this one back eh?


I had a little bit of a problem when I attempted to put the GPT partition table on the 2nd 3Tb. Disk management balked, and froze in the midst of. So I rebooted into GParted and I'm guessing it may have been a driver issue, because it partitioned fine in GParted w/o further protest. I'd send the HDD's back, except they were packaged individually in a suspension packaging (Amazon's Frustration Free packaging). So I don't foresee an issue w/ them...I hope.


The mobo box came out unscathed, but a fin on the cpu hs is bent. Nbd, that goes in the junk pile, and I'll likely end up using it to cool another high power LED for a projector bulb conversion. 3500 lumen 100w LED's ftw.


The R7950 TF III also hit my doorstep, albeit w/ no packaging problems, nor damage. Yay?!? Although I'm still waiting on the waterblocks/rad/case/840 Pro/fans & assorted other bits & pieces. Some will be here tomorrow, the rest spread out over Monday, and the case on Tuesday. I'll be de-lidding the cpu probably late next week, as it's a good idea to check out the rest of this hardware that's taken a beating in transit before voiding warranties!


And I'm in the process of migrating data between old drives & new. Boring as...yeah well, you know.

I just have to ask... given the overall cost of the build, why are you not running a 7970ghz edition or a 680? It just seems out of priority to me for a gaming PC.

[Teh Rav3n]

Vulpesveritas, on 30 November 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

I just have to ask... given the overall cost of the build, why are you not running a 7970ghz edition or a 680? It just seems out of priority to me for a gaming PC.

More or less, because I'm maxed out on budget for the build (purchased a Catleap q270 too) w/ x-mas approaching and all of the expense that entails. Otherwise I'd have stepped up to the Lightning and a 3770k instead. It'll probably get put in a backup rig sometime early next year when I have a bit more disposable income available, and it will be total overkill for the kids to play on @ 1080p.

Edited by Teh Rav3n, 30 November 2012 - 04:21 PM.

[Teh Rav3n]

Well it's been a while since I touched base on this topic. It's been a busy couple of weeks, doing all of the mods to get this stuffed in the system, and I ran into a bit of disappointment last night. After running through the 2nd and final leak test, I shut down the pump after 62 hours up time, checked everything. Perfect.

Then came back about 15 minutes later to start pulling all of the tissue out. Only to find that one of my dual rotary 90° fittings had a slow drip. Started it up again, and nothing. Shut it off, and 10 minutes later the tissue was wet again. Merry freakin... *grumbles*. It only leaks when the pump is off? Sacrilege! Ofc, it's in the return line to the pump, behind everything else.

No matter, I had a few extra fittings lying about from other builds, but I hadn't had time to check all else in the system before voiding some warranties. So I pulled everything aside from the radiator after draining the system and set it to one side temporarily. Plugged in the OEM hs and an old 6970 for the moment, and it's up and running.

So I'll be delidding the 3570k tomorrow (well behind schedule, but whatever), and reassembling the loop.

Oh right, almost forgot. I went ahead and bought the WD5000HHTZ Velciraptor, and sold my extra 128 Gb M4, in favor of another m4. Albeit a 64 Gb version for the SRT cache drive. Once I get everything back in it's proper place, and have a little time to run some burn in stability tests after oc'ing it, I'll run a few benches to let you guys see how it's all working together.

[Honey Badger]

If you ordered from Amazon, sorry to hear about your issues. I just did a build with stuff from Amazon and everything came packaged up very nicely. My wife has Amazon Prime, so I got the free 2-day shipping. Maybe that was the difference.

I've gotten a little criticism a few times on my build for opting for a GTX 660 over a Radeon 7950. I guess I went with what a few of the guys I do drops with recommended to me as well as available cash on hand. I may yet go with something different, but right now, I'm cranked on max settings at 1920x1080 running my GTX 660 with Lucid Logix running and no additional OC tweaks other than the factory one. I am getting mid-60 FPS with lows in the mid40s. And for me thats brawling in the middle of the water in the city map. For me I always had the worst performance on the city map with my old PC. As for my Lucid Logix setup I opted for running out of my GPU card HDMI port and making sure I have v-sync set. I did opt for the MSI TF/OC version and am very happy. I'm sure you'll get the same satisfaction from from your MSI Radeon 7950.

As for 7950 over a 7970, when I researched it, it seemed to be a very incremental increase in performance over the $60 to $100 premium you pay to have it. Plus if you really want 7970 performance, you can prolly OC or tweak you 7950 to get it fairly easily.

I opted for a micro-ATX build, similiar to your ITX build. Unique layout, but I was a lot of fun to build. I've got my i5-3570K OCed to 4.6GHz on 1.24v and a 46x multiplier. Using a factory enclosed water block for it. Very happy with that too. I think as far as LGA1155 builds, especially for this game, the i5-3570K is pretty hard to beat in $/performance.

Edited by Honey Badger, 23 December 2012 - 07:12 AM.

[Sen]

Wouldn't mind seeing some pics of the de-lidding. . . I have to say you've got more b4lls than i do on that one. . I've heard both good and bad things about doing it. Sorry to hear about the leak. . . and it makes perfect sense on an intel: By comparison, thanks to LLC, I only ever have issues with things crashing at IDLE! I can prime95 for weeks. . but leave chrome open and walk away for an hour and it's frozen

Take it as a good sign, something ALWAYS has to go wrong, at least it was something obvious ^^

[Teh Rav3n]

Honey Badger, on 23 December 2012 - 07:07 AM, said:

If you ordered from Amazon, sorry to hear about your issues. I just did a build with stuff from Amazon and everything came packaged up very nicely. My wife has Amazon Prime, so I got the free 2-day shipping. Maybe that was the difference.

I've gotten a little criticism a few times on my build for opting for a GTX 660 over a Radeon 7950. I guess I went with what a few of the guys I do drops with recommended to me as well as available cash on hand. I may yet go with something different, but right now, I'm cranked on max settings at 1920x1080 running my GTX 660 with Lucid Logix running and no additional OC tweaks other than the factory one. I am getting mid-60 FPS with lows in the mid40s. And for me thats brawling in the middle of the water in the city map. For me I always had the worst performance on the city map with my old PC. As for my Lucid Logix setup I opted for running out of my GPU card HDMI port and making sure I have v-sync set. I did opt for the MSI TF/OC version and am very happy. I'm sure you'll get the same satisfaction from from your MSI Radeon 7950.

As for 7950 over a 7970, when I researched it, it seemed to be a very incremental increase in performance over the $60 to $100 premium you pay to have it. Plus if you really want 7970 performance, you can prolly OC or tweak you 7950 to get it fairly easily.

I opted for a micro-ATX build, similiar to your ITX build. Unique layout, but I was a lot of fun to build. I've got my i5-3570K OCed to 4.6GHz on 1.24v and a 46x multiplier. Using a factory enclosed water block for it. Very happy with that too. I think as far as LGA1155 builds, especially for this game, the i5-3570K is pretty hard to beat in $/performance.

It was from Amazon, and really it's the first problem I've had from their packaging in 3 yrs. I've been a Prime subscriber for 2 yrs out of that run. Can't beat the shipping prices really, Prime instant videos not withstanding


No criticism found here on a 660 Ti build, I just prefer to support AMD in one manner or the other in favor of balanced pricing through competition. For me, everyones free to like what they like, and do whatever makes them happy.


Plus, I'm not a fan of nVidia due to their anti-competitive nature, and Jen Hsun Huang isn't my favorite person at all. Throw that in w/ my old 8800 GT getting bricked by a certain "196.75" driver update way back when and...yeah. I gently remind people of that incident when they talk negatively about AMD/ATi drivers.


Concerning drivers: On the 12.11b drivers, as far as FPS goes, the 7950's are kicking the 670's teeth in, in all but a very few select titles. As for the frame latency/microstutter issue that's making the rounds currently, I don't see it at all personally. But then, my eyes don't record at 120 FPS either. I'll be testing the frame latency myself after I get it all back together to independently verify, and I'll report back with my results.


That said, I really wanted the R7970 Lightning for the unlocked bios and additional power phases, but it just wasn't in the cards w/ the holidays right around the corner. Besides which, I have a few bios tricks to play on the R7950 TF 3, and the modded Saphire Trixx 4.04B which should go a long way. Seeing as how I managed to max out the Afterburner slider on clock & memory (1100/1500 core/mem. Furmark stable @ 24 hrs burn in) with stock voltage while testing on the original air cooler, that is. Possible golden gpu here.


Under water, there should be a drastic improvement in temps (especially where VRM's & memory are concerned), and a h3ll of a lot more headroom for oc'ing. I'll find out soon enough. But you're correct, only a rather marginal 5% performance increase w/ the 7970 over the 7950. Not worth it to most people with the price difference for sure. Although for a benchtester, yeah. Worth it!


Thanks for responding! Hope you're having a great holiday weekend!

Sen, on 23 December 2012 - 07:55 AM, said:

Wouldn't mind seeing some pics of the de-lidding. . . I have to say you've got more b4lls than i do on that one. . I've heard both good and bad things about doing it. Sorry to hear about the leak. . . and it makes perfect sense on an intel: By comparison, thanks to LLC, I only ever have issues with things crashing at IDLE! I can prime95 for weeks. . but leave chrome open and walk away for an hour and it's frozen

Take it as a good sign, something ALWAYS has to go wrong, at least it was something obvious ^^

Thanks Sen! Sure, no problem, glad to show you how it comes out. You'll have to deal with cell pics though, being that my lady is out of town w/ my camera until Wednesday, I'm sorry to say. I'm just about to tear it down and get started on it. Full syringe of Coolabratory Liquid Pro @ the ready.


I totally forget if I've mentioned it, but I'll be going direct to die w/ the Apogee Drive II, for the best possible temps. I'd really like to see close to 5 Ghz out of this chip, if not a little better (some have eclipsed 5.4 Gigglehurtz w/ direct to die on Ivy). I can only hope!


Any ideas what the problem is w/ LLC causing your system to lock? C1E & all of that off, I would assume? Is it just with Chrome? Stable build, or the Canary beta/nightly's? If so, try turning off the GPU accelleration, as that's been a culprit with many people's systems. Firefox even had the same problem recently, memory leakage was suspected, but not proven afaik. I run a custom build of Pale Moon (Firefox) myself. No problems here, so far.


Yeah, there's always at least one problem with every new build, isn't there? I may have turned up a second after posting last night. I'm not getting the performance I'd expect out of the SRT raid array. At least where sequential read/writes are concerned. Comparatively speaking, with a 1 Tb Velociraptor and the 50 Gb Crucial Adrenaline cache SSD (which everyone suspects is based on the M4), are roughly doubling my sequential read/write scores on Crystal Diskmark & HDTune. 512k reads are in line, but the writes are again nearly 2/3's slower. 4k & QD32-4k are a bit faster on mine though.


The m4 is on a SATA III port, and the Velociraptor is on a SATA II.


Maybe it's a driver problem, and I don't have time to play with it w/ all else going on atm. After it's back up and running, I'm going to delete the SRT cache array after a backup, and retest individually each drive to make sure there's nothing funky going on w/ the drives alone. Failing that, I'll swap the ports to see if that has any measureable effect. It really shouldn't, because the Velociraptor shouldn't have a hope in hell at saturating a SATA II connection. We'll see though.

Edited by Teh Rav3n, 23 December 2012 - 02:54 PM.

[Teh Rav3n]

Well guys, here you go. Ivy, in all her butt nekkid glory. For clarity: Naked is being in the nude, whilst nekkid is being disrobed with nefarious intent! Lol!


Sorry for the cell pics. Until the wife gets home on Wednesday, this will have to do. So intent on the task was I, that I totally forgot to eat dinner...

Edited by Teh Rav3n, 23 December 2012 - 10:08 PM.