34 replies to this topic

[Icebound]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 28 November 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

Jenner K is objectively the worst Jenner in the game (unless they add modules that are real game-changers, at which point its extra module slot might be handy). If they want a Jenner to have ECM capability, then the K is by far the most logical (and balanced) option. It's already the high-tech variant, and it'd be a buff to the worst of the lot.

This. As it stands the Jenner-K only exists because of the need for grinding XP on 3 mechs. Otherwise it is never used.

[Jason1138]

if you put ECM on any Jenner there is literally no reason to ever own any light but a Jenner


terrible idea imo

[Enigmos]

The K can fit a six-pack on the roof where the D can only use two four-packs. The K is competitive to the D and I think superior as a skirmisher to the F because of it.

D is still the champ in my thinking.

However, ECM equipped Ravens are currently showing a strong case for inclusion in preference to the Jenner as the default tournament scout. In the right hands it exerts a very effective presence on the battlefield and it would take a similarly skilled or better Jenner D pilot using different tactics than was the common case to beat it.

[Duckwalk]

My Jenner D - 2 medium lasers, 2 SSRMs (20 point alpha), TAG, 138kph, 215 armor, can alpha non stop without any heat issues.

My Raven 3L- 2 medium lasers, 2 SSRMs (20 point alpha), TAG, 136kph, 215 armor, can alpha non stop without any heat issues.

Only difference = jump jets vs ECM

Are jump jets worth ECM? No way in hell.
Does a non-ECM light have a chance against a ECM light with streaks? Generally no as its much harder to be perfectly accurate due to lag shield/aiming requirement with lasers compared to streaks.

There is no debate until:
1. netcode gets fixed so that damage can be consistently applied to lights without use of streaks or LRMs
2. ECM is either made heavier so that ECM mechs operate at lower levels of combat effectiveness than non-ECM lights.

Until one of those things happens, the Jenner is essentially worthless.

Edited by Duckwalk, 11 December 2012 - 11:01 AM.

[Screech]

Using ECM to balance unpopular mechs is a bad idea. In the end will cause ECM to get nerfed to uselessness eventually. But it is the easy answer so they went with.

[Duckwalk]

I don't mind them using ECM to balance mechs but there is no balancing going on here. There is essentially no detriment to running with ECM on your mech.

Ravens and Commandos that want to run ECM should be forced to choose between going substantially slower than "combat lights" or loading considerably less weaponry.

Edited by Duckwalk, 11 December 2012 - 11:07 AM.

[Mercules]

Duckwalk, on 11 December 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

I don't mind them using ECM to balance mechs but there is no balancing going on here. There is essentially no detriment to running with ECM on your mech.

Ravens and Commandos that want to run ECM should be forced to choose between going substantially slower than "combat lights" or loading considerably less weaponry.

Why? ECM really isn't as overpowered as people keep trying to present it as. Especially if PGI would implement LRMs and Streaks properly.

[Lykaon]

I have always concidered the Jenner chassis to be a light skirmish mech that we pressed into service as a scout due to not having a better choice.

Now we have a better scout mech choice and some want to keep pressing the Jenner into the scout role.

A Jenner will have a few advantages over a Raven and all of them are improvements to the ability to cause damage.

Jenners have more speed (slightly better at cap than a Raven 4L at cap and much better than a Commando 2D) This improves the Jenner's ability to retain LOS on the ECM scouts and evade other slower and heavyer mechs.

JumpJets,The addition of jumpjets grant the Jenner access to many manuver options non jump capable ECM scouts simply can not take advantage of.The added ability to jump over intersecting terrain gives the Jenner pilot many attack and evasion options ECM scouts do not get.

Jenners in general have a higher capacity to mount offencive firepower.A Jenner can be built for dishing it out and evading any return fire.

My Jenner loadout includes 4 medium lasers,2 SRM4 launchers,Jumpjets,12 DHS and a 300XL.

My Raven loadout includes 2 medium lasers,2 SSRM2 launchers,TAG,BAP,ECM,AMS,10 DHS and a 280XL engine.

The Jenner has twice the firepower and greater mobility.The Raven however is designed for E-war recon.As a support mech it devotes tonnage (5.5 tons to be exact) to group utility equipment.

If you want to debate light mechs and their roles we have a Spider and a Flea comming up and personally I see no advantage to a flea and only a tiny nitche for a spider (The spider will have the highest top speed available at it's release).

Edited by Lykaon, 11 December 2012 - 01:19 PM.

[TruePoindexter]

Lykaon, on 11 December 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

If you want to debate light mechs and their roles we have a Spider and a Flea comming up and personally I see no advantage to a flea and only a tiny nitche for a spider (The spider will have the highest top speed available at it's release).

I wonder about this myself... the Spider just seems like an extremely fast don't actually do anything mech. Those two medium pulse we all know people are going to mount will put it on par with a zombie Centruion.

The Flea isn't as fast but still can't do much at all.

I'm just not sure how these mechs fit into the actual game past being new shineys to look at.

[hammerreborn]

Lykaon, on 11 December 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

My Jenner loadout includes 4 medium lasers,2 SRM4 launchers,Jumpjets,12 DHS and a 300XL.

My Raven loadout includes 2 medium lasers,2 SSRM2 launchers,TAG,BAP,ECM,AMS,10 DHS and a 280XL engine.

The Jenner has twice the firepower and greater mobility.The Raven however is designed for E-war recon.As a support mech it devotes tonnage (5.5 tons to be exact) to group utility equipment.

Drop the AMS and BAP and you can easily have just slightly less firepower than the Jenner while having the same exact speed. Using ECM I'm not sure what benefit either of those things give you. You're a light, if you can dodge LRMs using a mech that doesn't have ECM (hence you not having it on your Jenner), you can dodge it in something that goes just as fast while causing the LRM mech to easily lose lock of you.

But that would require switching to weapons that need to be aimed, and that's not why people run Ravens/Commandos.

[DivideByZer0]

Mercules, on 11 December 2012 - 12:37 PM, said:

Why? ECM really isn't as overpowered as people keep trying to present it as. Especially if PGI would implement LRMs and Streaks properly.

Haha I was thinking that the other night, got attacked by an ECM raven, ECM jenner, and hunchie in river, in my RVN-3L. Killed the first two , the raven ran off and died before I could finish him. ECM isn't overpowered, it's the pilot behind the controls.

[Kaitto]

It gets kinda frustrating when you play as a Jenner and a group of 4 Ravens all with ECM start spamming you with Streak SRMs, we shouldn't be forced to abandon the Jenner just because of the ECM.

[Mercules]

Kaitto, on 11 December 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

It gets kinda frustrating when you play as a Jenner and a group of 4 Ravens all with ECM start spamming you with Streak SRMs, we shouldn't be forced to abandon the Jenner just because of the ECM.

So wait... 4 mechs focused on you and you expected a result other than you dying? ECM or not you were going to lose that fight.

[TruePoindexter]

Kaitto, on 11 December 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

It gets kinda frustrating when you play as a Jenner and a group of 4 Ravens all with ECM start spamming you with Streak SRMs, we shouldn't be forced to abandon the Jenner just because of the ECM.

1 v 4 and you're surprised you died?

[Stormur Herra]

Duckwalk, on 11 December 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

I don't mind them using ECM to balance mechs but there is no balancing going on here. There is essentially no detriment to running with ECM on your mech.

Ravens and Commandos that want to run ECM should be forced to choose between going substantially slower than "combat lights" or loading considerably less weaponry.

They have to give up 1.5 tons. That's a considerable amount of armor/weaponry loss on a Commando. By contrast the 1.5 tons the Atlas has to give up for ECM is laughable.