65 replies to this topic

[Boris The Spider]

Yeah, Catamount, that I where I see MWO in a years time, except with the battles between the groups being spread out over multiple different maps. Once we have all the features in place to make teamwork easy (House Marik Lobby?) we should see a mix of vets and new players working together like we see on games like BF2.

Anyone who refuses to join a squad, should expect, like in the BF games to get owned by people who do. Once the features are included in the game their list of excuses will be a lot shorter and they will be significantly in the minority, like they are in BF.

Edited by Boris The Spider, 29 November 2012 - 07:36 AM.

[John Norad]

Boris The Spider, on 29 November 2012 - 06:38 AM, said:

Been playing multiplayer games over a decade, and this forum is the first place I have ever came accross the concept of matchmaking. What other games actualy have this kind of feature?

Nowadays?
Team-based games like League of Legends, that are also played on a competetive level, tend to have it. It's definitely a plus.
It's not the norm for standard shooters. But those usually have no economy with consequences depending on win or loss, and they often have instant respawn, which makes dying/losing less of an issue and less frustrating.

[Orkhepaj]

cause premades dont like not easy matches

[AtomicFrawg]

This Premade vs's Pugs thing could have been avoided by just adding tags at the finishing screen of who was grouped.

And I still think that people would have found they did not face as many premades as they thought.

Edited by AtomicFrawg, 29 November 2012 - 07:52 AM.

[Boris The Spider]

John Norad, on 29 November 2012 - 07:40 AM, said:

Nowadays?
Team-based games like League of Legends, that are also played on a competetive level, tend to have it. It's definitely a plus.
It's not the norm for standard shooters. But those usually have no economy with consequences depending on win or loss, and they often have instant respawn, which makes dying/losing less of an issue and less frustrating.

Correct me if I'm wrong here John, but isn’t LoL a D&D style RPG where you have a huge disparity between someone who has been playing for a week and someone who has been playing for a year? MWO is more like a FPS where someone can become a capable mech pilot in a few weeks and is not in a position where they will never catch up in quality, indeed in MWO someone who has been playing a few weeks could easily be better than someone who has been playing for a few month.

If this is the case, is matchmaking not just a stopgap solution before they impliment the team-play features that will see many players dropping out of teamspeak to use the built in system?

Edited by Boris The Spider, 29 November 2012 - 07:57 AM.

[JadeViper]

Catamount, on 29 November 2012 - 07:18 AM, said:

You know, we used to see this a lot in BF2142. That game had excellent mechanics for teamwork, even for non-premades. VOIP was integrated and superbly functional, and the game generally attracted team players, so many people, if not most, were good about using them.

But here's what's significant: I saw a lot of games, and I mean a lot, where coordinated groups of mediocre shooter players who were willing to do everything necessary to win as a team, absolutely and utterly creamed uncoordinated groups of skilled lone wolves.

2142 single handed is the best model of how PUG groups can work as well as a clan.

If you divide the teams into small squads with a leader ho can give orders on the HUD of his squad, that squad will do well. Even without voip, having a super simple tactical map to give orders and radio jsut a preset few announcements (need backup, follow me, yes sir, no sir) made your PUG squad a powerhouse. Bring back the single player radio orders to bots from odler MW games. Next o betty, If I heard "Form up on me" and "Attack my target" and then my hud highlights my target, I would be tingling with immersion and teamwork prowess. Toss in a "Hold you fire" and "Weapons free" You can now organize an ambush, or sneak to the flank without having to waste time typing in teamchat. A right click in the tac map from the lance leader to make an objective appear, and a hotkey to the radio (F buttons?), you have a fully fledged MW lance in a PUG!

MW now has a touch of this with a command console, but I'm hoping the servers will eventually place PUG players into a 'lance,' and allow for simple tac-map orders to appear on the UI of your lancemates: Move here, defend here, attack here. My hope is that the command console will lose it's tonnage and space reqs as those discourage it's use, thus discourages PUG team coordination.

The BF2142 Tac map would be a perfect fit for MWO, and not force grouping to only occur in the teamspeak channels.

Edited by JadeViper, 29 November 2012 - 08:22 AM.

[River McCain]

Oddly enough those of us that choose to Solo Drop, also hate the AFK/Suicider Derps, these scrubs ruin the game for everyone, not just the VoiPers.

[Broceratops]

Boris The Spider, on 29 November 2012 - 07:55 AM, said:

Correct me if I'm wrong here John, but isn’t LoL a D&D style RPG where you have a huge disparity between someone who has been playing for a week and someone who has been playing for a year? MWO is more like a FPS where someone can become a capable mech pilot in a few weeks and is not in a position where they will never catch up in quality, indeed in MWO someone who has been playing a few weeks could easily be better than someone who has been playing for a few month.

If this is the case, is matchmaking not just a stopgap solution before they impliment the team-play features that will see many players dropping out of teamspeak to use the built in system?

LoL is an arena type game where 5 people pick 'heros' which all start at level 1 and then they fight against the other team. After 30 minutes one team destroys the other team's base and wins. So there is no disadvantage or advantage for any person other than skill. It is the same with WoW. In their instanced formats its just the same level people against each other. This is why both games found out they need matchmaking. Otherwise the top 10% will destroy the bottom 70%, 90% of the time, which is boring for everybody.

Its about the win %. No one will play a game if they win only 2 games out of 10 without getting super frustrated. Especially if they're on equal ground in terms of levels, mechs, or whatever, but just getting outskilled or outteamed. I'ts like how you would feel if you tried to get into Chess, but all you played were chessmasters who destroyed you every single time. They need matchmaking to have a challenging game that you have a decent chance to win or lose no matter how bad or good you are.

you should check out some LoL or Dota2 streams if you are interested ... they're free and kind of fun to play.

[Kell Draygo]

Mercules, on 29 November 2012 - 06:17 AM, said:

What I find most funny about this is that if they hunted out all the bugs and had perfect netcode, thus you never experienced it... most of the forums would be yelling, "Y U no have content!" "Want new map naow!" It's a balancing act people.

It's not a balancing act. It's a ******** act for releasing the game so early.

[Bilbo]

Orkhepaj, on 29 November 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

cause premades dont like not easy matches

You win the prize for most ridiculous comment of the day.

[Bilbo]

Sevaradan, on 29 November 2012 - 06:29 AM, said:

Quite possibly because there's severe population issues (i.e. not enough of it) and splitting into 8v8 and puggling only would make it overly apparent. (just a guess based on the 6 times I saw a certain notorious suicide farmer in 3 hours yesterday morning) and ppl would stop giving PGI $....

I would refer you to this post by Mr. Eckman:
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1488495

Apparently population isn't an issue.

[Sevaradan]

Bilbo, on 29 November 2012 - 08:56 AM, said:

I would refer you to this post by Mr. Eckman:
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1488495

Apparently population isn't an issue.

Or so they say....

Note that I never once talked about the number of people on the forums, so that post you linked is irrelevant


When you see some of the same names over and over again in matches, like certain infamous suicide botters over the course of a couple hours it makes you wonder.

Edited by Sevaradan, 29 November 2012 - 09:14 AM.

[Bilbo]

Sevaradan, on 29 November 2012 - 09:13 AM, said:

Or so they say....

Note that I never once talked about the number of people on the forums, so that post you linked is irrelevant


When you see some of the same names over and over again in matches, like certain infamous suicide botters over the course of a couple hours it makes you wonder.

The quote I linked to is perfectly relevant. He is speaking of users in game, specifically the number of concurrent users still consistantly growing.

[Sevaradan]

Do you seriously trust PGI at this point how many times have they said something like "MM phase 2 the 20th" or "no 3rd person" and all of a sudden "hey guys despite all the hate mail we're still looking at 3rd person..." etc.

[Bilbo]

Since they are the only people who have the actual numbers, yes. As for content/feature delays, I don't like it but I can deal with it.

They are getting mail from both sides of the issue on 3rd person view and as long as I don't have to play against anyone using it, I don't care.

[Boris The Spider]

Broceratops, on 29 November 2012 - 08:42 AM, said:

LoL is an arena type game where 5 people pick 'heros' which all start at level 1 and then they fight against the other team. After 30 minutes one team destroys the other team's base and wins. So there is no disadvantage or advantage for any person other than skill. It is the same with WoW. In their instanced formats its just the same level people against each other. This is why both games found out they need matchmaking. Otherwise the top 10% will destroy the bottom 70%, 90% of the time, which is boring for everybody.

OK, just so I make sure I have this right:

LoL and WoW and other games that employ matchmaking are similar to games like the Battlefield franchise and MWO where by, someone who has played the game for a week is perfectly capable for beating someone who has played the game for a year and the main component in deciding who is the harder player is based primarily on the players inherent skill rather than unlocks/levels etc?

As I say, I haven’t played any of them and the closest thing to WoW I can conceive is EVE, which while it doesn’t have matchmaking, has a game design that makes it physically impossible for a 1 week old player to complete at the same level as a 1 year old player under normal circumstances.

This is why I cannot really see the point in a matchmaking system on MWO, for instance my HBK cost about 5M CB to construct, I have skills that give me a couple of % increase, but nothing insurmountable for a new player to beat. In all likelihood a new player could be in that same mech within a day or two and with a little teamwork wipe the floor with me provided he has the skills.

In EVE-Online, I used to fly a Zealot, a standard cruiser available to a week old player could never destroy me, and it would take said player about 5-6 month to be able to fly a Zealot, even without matching my pilot skills. In BF2, I can take a squad out composed partially of new players and put in a respectable performance against a squad of veterans in a way that would be impossible on EVE. And the difficulty/skill boost curve on MWO is more similar to BF2 than it is to EVE.

[Bguk]

Sevaradan, on 29 November 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

Do you seriously trust PGI at this point how many times have they said something like "MM phase 2 the 20th" or "no 3rd person" and all of a sudden "hey guys despite all the hate mail we're still looking at 3rd person..." etc.

Yes otherwise I would think a person wouldn't be here trying to make the game better.

[Sevaradan]

I don't trust them and I want the game to be better...

[QuantumButler]

Sevaradan, on 29 November 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:

I don't trust them and I want the game to be better...

At this point the game would probably get new updates faster if Notch was lead dev.

[Sevaradan]

LOLOL very true.