322 replies to this topic

[Lefty Lucy]

The initial reason given for why DHS could not be "true" DHS was the oft-cited "3 second Jenner" that could, according to a dev comment "core an atlas in under 3 seconds." Well, for two patches, the 3 second Jenner has been the norm, as most light and medium mechs get by with just the 10 engine-mounted DHS. They *already have* 2.0 DHS, and the only thing game-breaking about jenners has not been damage output, but survivability due to poor net code.

However, larger mechs that have the tonnage to mount more DHS do not have the full benefit of their DHS. A prime victim of this is the current trial assault, the AWS-9M. With 20 DHS, its dissipation is only 3.4 HPS. A single ERPPC has heat generation of 4.33 HPS. This thing has 3 of them plus other weapons.

Even with "true" DHS, it would not be able to keep a single ERPPC cool, so I think it is clear to see that this would not "break" the mech. However, it would make more well-designed mechs far more useable, and bring heavies and assaults into better parity with light chassis.

[QuantumButler]

****** signed A+ would like again.

[Orkhepaj]

No it wouldbe a huge jenner nerf.

[Green Mamba]

Orkhepaj, on 29 November 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

No it wouldbe a huge jenner nerf.

Haha and by Jenner Nerf you mean more fair to everyone else

[Woodpeckr]

No

DHS are already pretty much mandatory on every mech, there's pretty much no configuration that isn't improved by upgrading to them. Making them better would just widen the gap, particularly against trial mechs which most of the time don't have them.

[Urza Mechwalker]

I am forced to agree. Cannot see any reasonable argument that DHS at 2.0 would be overpowered. Clearly the tests PGI made were not valid and the fact that even DHS a t7.0 would not create that invalidate the argument.


Assaults still suffer from overheating much and need the love of DHS. If they do nto want to jump direclty to 2.0. Just change them to 1.7 and observe how that will not make anything overpowered.

[rolly]

Agreed wholeheartedly. Their Jenner reasoning for a DHS nerf to 1.4 doesn't hold up any longer.

Food for thought. If MechWarrior, MW2 (all of its franchise expansions) MW3, AND MW4 have DHS that work effectively and not hamper the game. Why mess with damage values and SHS/DHS cooling values? If it isn't broken, well proven and canon. Please don't fix it.

[QuantumButler]

Woodpeckr, on 29 November 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

No

DHS are already pretty much mandatory on every mech, there's pretty much no configuration that isn't improved by upgrading to them. Making them better would just widen the gap, particularly against trial mechs which most of the time don't have them.

Yeah we wouldn't want to accidentally make ppcs or ER lasers viable would we.

[MrPenguin]

An increase from 1.4? Sure.
Return to 2.0? Nope.

1.7-1.8 sounds like it would be fine.

[Redshift2k5]

It would make for some really broken builds- yes, it would make ERPPC competitive with the current weapons, but you'd be bringing buffs to all other other weapons at the same time and ERPPC would still be left in the lurch.

Edited by Redshift2k5, 29 November 2012 - 10:11 AM.

[Urza Mechwalker]

Woodpeckr, on 29 November 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

No

DHS are already pretty much mandatory on every mech, there's pretty much no configuration that isn't improved by upgrading to them. Making them better would just widen the gap, particularly against trial mechs which most of the time don't have them.

DHS are supposed to be mandatory when you have alot of critical space to spare. They are still not the best option when critical space is shorter. This situation is rare and it IS supposed to be rare. What we need is new verison of mechs that come with DHS as stock as MOST mechs in 3050 already were.

[Lefty Lucy]

Woodpeckr, on 29 November 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

No

DHS are already pretty much mandatory on every mech, there's pretty much no configuration that isn't improved by upgrading to them. Making them better would just widen the gap, particularly against trial mechs which most of the time don't have them.

When Elo matchmaking gets implemented, people who are able to upgrade their mechs, and thus do better, will be paired up against more similarly upgraded mechs (or *superstars* in non-upgraded mechs), so it will all balance out in the end.

[QuantumButler]

Redshift2k5, on 29 November 2012 - 10:11 AM, said:

It wold make for some really broken builds- yes, it would make ERPPC compeititive with the current weapons, but you'd be bringing buffs to all tohe other weapons at the same time and ERPPC would still be left in the lurch.

Not really.

All the really OP builds are pretty much heat efficent with poordubs already, they will still be the most OP even with truedubs, the most you'll ever get on a mech is 19, maybe 20 dubs tops, at max 40 SHs of heat dissipation, that's still not enough to boat tons and tons of large lasers or anything ridiculous.

[rolly]

Woodpeckr, on 29 November 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

No

DHS are already pretty much mandatory on every mech, there's pretty much no configuration that isn't improved by upgrading to them. Making them better would just widen the gap, particularly against trial mechs which most of the time don't have them.

You're not seeing the forest for the trees. DHS is not mandatory for each mech. There is no gap if they choose trial mechs that are already heat inefficient due to being designed that way. Do you adjust the flow of water on your faucet sink if you have a huge leak in your plumbing throughout the house?

[Indk]

I have or want to put DHS in every mech i have. Why the hell should these be buffed? cause you can't fit them in your assault mechs?

They're practically mandatory for everything else.

[Dakkath]

With weapon recycle times being what they are, double heat sinks will lead to crazy abnormal DPS numbers.

I think at this time, with the netcode re-work coming, and weapon balancing still under review, that DHS should stay where they are.

Weapon recycle times are the biggest reason why (imo) DHS are not 2.0.

[MrPenguin]

Lefty Lucy, on 29 November 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

When Elo matchmaking gets implemented, people who are able to upgrade their mechs, and thus do better, will be paired up against more similarly upgraded mechs (or *superstars* in non-upgraded mechs), so it will all balance out in the end.

I would much rather they do a permanent, well done solution instead of a lazy band-aid solution like you're suggesting.
Dev: Hey Tim, how about instead of balancing everything to make almost everything viable and adding a lot of diversity, lets not even bother with balancing at all and just force all the OP mechs to fight each other!

See the problem there?

[Lefty Lucy]

QuantumButler, on 29 November 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

Not really.

All the really OP builds are pretty much heat efficent with poordubs already, they will still be the most OP even with truedubs, the most you'll ever get on a mech is 19, maybe 20 dubs tops, at max 40 SHs of heat dissipation, that's still not enough to boat tons and tons of large lasers or anything ridiculous.

Yeah, Gausscats and Streakcats were just as fine under SHS as they have been under *any* implementation of DHS. Similarly LRM boats have not been significantly impacted by DHS implementation. I think the only "cheesebuild" that is only possible because of DHS is the quad-AC-2 cataphract, and that mech has some serious issues in other areas, in addition to actually requiring the pilot to aim.

MrPenguin, on 29 November 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

I would much rather they do a permanent, well done solution instead of a lazy band-aid solution like you're suggesting.
Dev: Hey Tim, how about instead of balancing everything to make almost everything viable and adding a lot of diversity, lets not even bother with balancing at all and just force all the OP mechs to fight each other!

See the problem there?

It's not a band aid solution, it's the most basic of matchmaking systems that most online games incorporate.

[QuantumButler]

Lefty Lucy, on 29 November 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

Yeah, Gausscats and Streakcats were just as fine under SHS as they have been under *any* implementation of DHS. Similarly LRM boats have not been significantly impacted by DHS implementation. I think the only "cheesebuild" that is only possible because of DHS is the quad-AC-2 cataphract, and that mech has some serious issues in other areas, in addition to actually requiring the pilot to aim.



It's not a band aid solution, it's the most basic of matchmaking systems that most online games incorporate.

It's not even a "cheesebuild" honestly, people just like to whine when they can't counter it.

[WardenWolf]

Seconded, Signed, and Greatly Hoped For ™