322 replies to this topic

[197mmCannon]

I use a lot of energy weapons and i think the heatsinks are good to go right now.

The only thing I would change, if anything at all, is scale back some of the ballistics.

I play a lazerback, and use PPC/ERPPC on catapults and centurions.

[verybad]

I think 2X heatsinks would be far too easy for energy boats. I like sinks as they are.

Singles are still useful in some situations, and 1.4s are still highly desirable in others.

[Zeh]

Woodpeckr, on 29 November 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

No

DHS are already pretty much mandatory on every mech, there's pretty much no configuration that isn't improved by upgrading to them. Making them better would just widen the gap, particularly against trial mechs which most of the time don't have them.

4 LL Cataphract says differently. 31 SHS is 10000x better than the (14?) DHS you can fit on that sucker. If they were 2.0 HS the difference would be less.. but still in favor of 31 SHS.

[Jeff K Notagoon]

ERPPCs are too hot! Better lower the effect of heat on literally everything in the game instead of just fixing the one weapon you're having a problem with!

[rgreat]

I'm fully support the OP.

Make ALL DHS as double.

Edited by rgreat, 29 November 2012 - 10:24 AM.

[WardenWolf]

Dakkath, on 29 November 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

With weapon recycle times being what they are, double heat sinks will lead to crazy abnormal DPS numbers.

I think at this time, with the netcode re-work coming, and weapon balancing still under review, that DHS should stay where they are.

Weapon recycle times are the biggest reason why (imo) DHS are not 2.0.

In-engine heatsinks already are full 2.0, so you are only talking about increasing cooling by 0.6 x # of added heatsinks. The biggest mechs will only be able to load maybe 10 more (trust me, I'm an Atlas pilot and I try to pump as many HS into my mechs as possible). So you are only looking at another ~6 heat dissipation per 10 seconds, at max... that is not going to break any DPS stuff at all. What it *will* do is make larger energy weapons (PCCs, Large Lasers) a bit more viable - so that the mix of weapons you see on the battlefield is more even.

[Mister Blastman]

Signed. 2.0 or bust!!!!!!!!

[Kaldor]

Woodpeckr, on 29 November 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

DHS are already pretty much mandatory on every mech, there's pretty much no configuration that isn't improved by upgrading to them.

40 single heatsinks in my 4 large laser RS begs to differ.....

Doubles in no way would improve the performance of this mech in their current form.

And yeah, bring on the true doubles.

Edited by Kaldor, 29 November 2012 - 10:26 AM.

[Lefty Lucy]

WardenWolf, on 29 November 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

In-engine heatsinks already are full 2.0, so you are only talking about increasing cooling by 0.6 x # of added heatsinks. The biggest mechs will only be able to load maybe 10 more (trust me, I'm an Atlas pilot and I try to pump as many HS into my mechs as possible). So you are only looking at another ~6 heat dissipation per 10 seconds, at max... that is not going to break any DPS stuff at all. What it *will* do is make larger energy weapons (PCCs, Large Lasers) a bit more viable - so that the mix of weapons you see on the battlefield is more even.

Seriously. I'm tired of seeing mechs that equip multiple PPCs/ERPPCs and simply ignoring them, as I know they're likely to be shut down half the match anyways. They should be frightening.

[MrPenguin]

Lefty Lucy, on 29 November 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

Yeah, Gausscats and Streakcats were just as fine under SHS as they have been under *any* implementation of DHS. Similarly LRM boats have not been significantly impacted by DHS implementation. I think the only "cheesebuild" that is only possible because of DHS is the quad-AC-2 cataphract, and that mech has some serious issues in other areas, in addition to actually requiring the pilot to aim.



It's not a band aid solution, it's the most basic of matchmaking systems that most online games incorporate.

No?

What you're thinking of is a ELO or RANK system. The only game I can think of that actually has such a lazy matchmaking system is world of tanks and I could wright a book on everything wrong that game does but I digress. (And its not the point anyway)

I agree that theirs balancing issues, but I rather see them put the effort into actually making the values balanced and adding a lot of diversity for us mech nuts to toy with and make a ton of different wacky/fun builds then telling us to go **** our selfs and making such an elitist meta (which people are already trying to enforce with jenners, streakcats ect...) that punishes diversity.

Again, I agree with you that change is needed. But I disagree with your solution, and wish for you to re-think it a bit.

[WardenWolf]

Jeff K Notagoon, on 29 November 2012 - 10:23 AM, said:

ERPPCs are too hot! Better lower the effect of heat on literally everything in the game instead of just fixing the one weapon you're having a problem with!

You are only 'lowering the effect of heat' on mechs *able to equip additional DHS outside of their engine*. Not many mechs have room for that, at 3 crits each. Where it will be visible and helpful is on the mechs that run larger energy weapons (not just ERPPC, but the LLaser variants too) - so it actually *does* help where help is needed, and won't be used much outside of that.

[Lefty Lucy]

Kaldor, on 29 November 2012 - 10:25 AM, said:

40 single heatsinks in my 4 large laser RS begs to differ.....

Doubles in no way would improve the performance of this mech

I tried that thing while I was grinding Atlas efficiencies in CB. It was a head-shot master 4 lasers in fully articulated arms... yes please!

[Marzepans]

Whatever value DHS end up at, it's a disgrace that we have the current imbalanced system. Especially since it represents the third time the Devs have attempted to implement them and failed to do it as described.

Edited by Marzepans, 29 November 2012 - 10:27 AM.

[WardenWolf]

Kaldor, on 29 November 2012 - 10:25 AM, said:

40 single heatsinks in my 4 large laser RS begs to differ.....

Doubles in no way would improve the performance of this mech in their current form.

And yeah, bring on the true doubles.

As an Atlas pilot, with all variants, I would agree that if you want max heat efficiency and only run 4 Large Lasers the *current* DHS are not better than singles. *HOWEVER* - if they go to full doubles, they *will* be better for you... and they are already close. I run 19 doubles in my RS, so I'm at 10 x 2 + 9 x 1.4 = 32.6 - but it allows me to fit a Gauss rifle and 3-4 tons of ammo as a secondary no-heat weapon. I like that build better, and I would highly recommend trying it

[Kaldor]

Lefty Lucy, on 29 November 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

I tried that thing while I was grinding Atlas efficiencies in CB. It was a head-shot master 4 lasers in fully articulated arms... yes please!

Its a killer to be sure. Latest build uses a single LRM15 tube and 36 singles. Its damn effective in combination with a brawler Atlas.

WardenWolf, on 29 November 2012 - 10:28 AM, said:

As an Atlas pilot, with all variants, I would agree that if you want max heat efficiency and only run 4 Large Lasers the *current* DHS are not better than singles. *HOWEVER* - if they go to full doubles, they *will* be better for you... and they are already close. I run 19 doubles in my RS, so I'm at 10 x 2 + 9 x 1.4 = 32.6 - but it allows me to fit a Gauss rifle and 3-4 tons of ammo as a secondary no-heat weapon. I like that build better, and I would highly recommend trying it

I tried 4 LL and a gauss. Great alpha, but just not enough pew pew for me.
It was one of those builds that started off as "great another Fatlas to grind" to "wow, this is pretty damn effective"

[Roland]

If you can't manage your heat with the current implementation of double heat sinks, then you are doing it wrong.

[wanderer]

MrPenguin, on 29 November 2012 - 10:11 AM, said:

An increase from 1.4? Sure.
Return to 2.0? Nope.

1.7-1.8 sounds like it would be fine.

DHS never WERE at true 2.0.

We had a patch with DHS that were only DHS inside the engine. Then we had one where DHS were cruddier outside the engine than in. In no case did we have 2.0 DHS for all heat sinks in all locations. PGI's QA was testing based off of numbers that had no basis in reality, from our own testing.

It hasn't taken much math-fu whatsoever to prove that the freakish nightmare scenarios people has posted for if we DID have real DHS simply wouldn't exist. Even when engine-only DHS were 2.0, amazingly lights didn't turn into super-lethal death-ray spitting fire platforms of energy weapon ownage. (That would be the lagshield and no collisions, thanks much PGI).

2.0 DHS. Now. It's broken any other way.

Roland, on 29 November 2012 - 10:32 AM, said:

If you can't manage your heat with the current implementation of double heat sinks, then you are doing it wrong.

If you can manage your heat with the current implementation of DHS, then you're working too hard to do it.

[QuantumButler]

Roland, on 29 November 2012 - 10:32 AM, said:

If you can't manage your heat with the current implementation of double heat sinks, then you are doing it wrong.

Yeah, silly me, trying to use PPCs.

[Lefty Lucy]

Roland, on 29 November 2012 - 10:32 AM, said:

If you can't manage your heat with the current implementation of double heat sinks, then you are doing it wrong.

It's not about being able to manage your heat. That's really simple for anyone who has played the game more than 10 times. It's about returning the parity of balance a bit more in favor of assaults and heavies.

[Pendraco]

Wow. I thought we had seen the last of this topic. I have no issue with the way things are now, 2.0 in Engine and 1.4 Out + 15% for Elite. I have very little trouble running Energy only builds. IMO Energy weapons ARE competitive. No ammo, and no need to lead targets (besides the fast little guys at times). As for PPC's.... I love them now, and look forward to the coming buff's.

Now I would like to know what planet I am dropping on so that I can choose a suitable 'Mech. It never fails to drop me onto the worst possible planet for whatever 'Mech I currently have selected!