69 replies to this topic

[Onyx Rain]

I'd like to see a lush jungle waterfall map....


I'd like a map that looks like the world from Avatar at night... bioluminescent plants and animals, fireflies...etc..


I want a map with giant mushrooms....


Basically I'd like to see more visually ambitious maps that include people, animals, rainbows, aircraft/trains/cars/ etc...etc....

More interaction with the maps would be good too...

Why doesn't the water/acid on caustic eat away my armor?
Why don't cave/polar bears attack or flee from my mech when I go into a cave/ice tunnel.
Destructible environments....things that can be used against an enemy.
Example:
Why can't I shoot the top of the ice tunnel on frozen city as mechs are coming out and have ice fall on them and damage them? There is already a falling snow/ice animation there.

How bout a map where the occasional meteorite falls and damages near by mechs?
That is just a few ideas off the top of my head...but stuff like that....move visually diverse maps with greater interaction.

Edited by Onyx Rain, 30 November 2012 - 05:42 PM.

[miscreant]

Giant alien fauna and animals!

Edited by miscreant, 30 November 2012 - 09:49 PM.

[Onyx Rain]

miscreant, on 30 November 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

Giant alien fauna and animals!

Amen

[cmopatrick]

ACrispyChicken, on 29 November 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

They need an underwater map.

nothing like freaking out the folks who understand the scientific absurdity of any of the weapons we have underwater (remember, we don't have melee). missiles might work a little, but range on any of the ballistics would be next to nothing, lasers would be useless, and let's not even consider the ramifications of introducing the equivalent of weaponized lightning (ppc) into the same pool of water our mech is in...

[Shiney]

I just want MORE maps. Care little for what's on them.

[Metafox]

It would be kind of nice to see a lunar map. That said, fighting in a vacuum would be much worse for a mech than fighting underwater. Mechs use convection-based heat sinks which don't (shouldn't) work without an atmosphere. Of course it's still fun to pretend that they'll function. As frozen city night has shown us, a map can look quite nice without all of the mustard/fog and I sure hope they don't put fog or dust or something in a lunar map.

[Sparks Murphey]

I wanna fight around a crumbling and abandoned Castle Brian. A dropport and storage warehouses, scattered around the neo-medieval fortifications of the caste itself. The twisted, looted remains of cannon turrets stud the walls, while partially collapsed tunnels cut through the terrain. The castle come with prebuilt defensive positions, but time has weakened them, leaving previously secure barracades now open to flanking assaults. The walls afford 'Mechs with jumpjets an extra level of manoeuvrability, but can easily lead to them being cut off from their support. Though looters and treasure hunters have passed through many times since the fall of the Star League, who can tell what lost relics remain buried underneath?

[cmopatrick]

laser

Thontor, on 30 November 2012 - 11:58 PM, said:

Missile launchers user special torpedo rounds
Lasers work fine underwater, just not from air to water or visa versa because of refraction
PPCs are NOT lightning.

well, i can grant that if we had torpedo rounds for the missiles, then yes, they would work as well as possible (though if they have regressed in this area like they have in air breathing missiles/guidance, well, i would not count of hitting much.

i will grant that PPCs based on canon are allowed to be either protons or ions. since the ion beams would probably be charge neutral, i will grant you that. proton beams would not technically be lightning (electron streams), though the result in a conducting fluid could be very similar. however, the basic concept of a particle beam is based on matter impacting other matter after relativistic acceleration provides a huge kinetic force and a related mount of released heat energy. problem in water is that that beam starts impacting other matter immediately on discharge from the device. in water it is impacting/interacting with the vastly greater number of atoms in the fluid column immediately in front of the weapon than in clear air, giving off immense heat immediately. in the immediate path of the beam, it would likely separate the hydrogen and oxygen as it heats the H2O molecules to plasma temperatures... and after the beam ends, there would be a nice and exceptionally rapid reoxidation of the hydrogen. further, any water not converted to elemental hydrogen/oxygen may well ionize around the muzzle and particle stream. another risk is an immense static charge in the column surrounding the beam as it breaks down.not to mention the steam/bubble/turbulence zone that would be generated as well. depending on the composition and duration of the beam, there may even be unpredictable pushback similar to sticking a finger in a gun barrel as particles in front slow too quickly for the ones still being discharged to avoid impacting while still at or near the weapon.

lasers in pure hydrogen-hydroxide (water, H2O) with no disturbances, limited particulate, and low wattage do fine, this i will also grant (they are very inefficient for delivering energy, but are fine for underwater measurements and similar applications)... BUT lasers with enough power to damage armor or equipment... no. you will ionize, vaporize, and otherwise disturb the water within the first few meters (at most). what doesn't move almost immediately to plasma will sublimate to steam. the further from the muzzle you go, the more steam and bubbles (not to mention turbulence), which will break down the beam and dissipate any residual energy before it reaches a target (presuming it is not a few meters away).

in short, while i grant your torpedo option to some extent, if you held the muzzle of either a canon PPC or a laser against an opponent, it might do what you expect, but it might also do in the weapon and possibly your 'mech... and at much greater range (tens of meters), not to mention what we think of as normal combat ranges, they would not function as desired/expected.

[steelblueskies]

worth noting an underwater mission was also already done in a mw2 title.

furthermore for the canonically observant, jumpjets should be critting themselves, not working, or exploding if used while submerged. no water jumping until mechanical jump boosters much later in the timeline.

as to heatsinks in space, note the clans have laser heat sinks, ie shunting heat into light energy and directing it away from the mech through specially designed reflective outlet tubes. makes hiding at night a problem, but hey, go go experimental hi-tech.

[DrBunji]

Strum Wealh, on 30 November 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:

Spaceborne structures (ships and space stations) in BT/MW are not as big as some tend to think, either.

The idea of using a space station as a map was previously discussed here.

Space Stations in BT/MW aren't all that big; most are either generally-cylindrical and on the order of 400-600 meters long, or spherical and on the order of 400-600 meters in diameter.
By way of comparison, a Nimitz-class aircraft carrier is on the order of ~333 meters long and the Burj Khalifa (currently the tallest building in the world) is on the order of ~830 meters tall.
Additionally, the stations generally aren't built to accommodate 'Mechs at all, much less doing so outside of specialized bays for them and/or AeroSpace Fighters; as such, it would be even more difficult for any 'Mech to move outside of a few small areas.

An Overlord-class DropShip is 99 meters wide and 131.2 meters tall.
A Union-class DropShip is 81.5 meters wide and 78 meters tall.
The internal spacing of the latter is pictured below:


One of the most common classes of space station, the Bastion-class, is a sphere that is 345 meters in diameter.
The larger Crucible Station (a Capellan prison station) is a cylinder that is 400 meters in length and 450 meters in diameter.
The Olympus-class Jumpship Recharge Station is 660 meters long by 1500 meters wide (which must include the solar sail).
The Snowden-class Mining Station is 650 meters long and 300 meters wide.
The Invader-class JumpShip, one of the most common and iconic of its ilk, is 505 meters long and has a sail diameter of 1024 meters.

Part of the problem with the opening post is that the thread-starter is imagining that BT space stations are built using Gundam-style engineering specifications (which, in turn, are based on the "Island Three"/"O'Neill Cylinder" design proposed in reality by Gerard K. O'Neill, a physicist and professor at Princeton University).

The Gundam-style space stations (based on O'Neill's designs), built as orbital habitats, are 5 miles (8.047 kilometers) in diameter and 20 miles (32.187 kilometers) long.

O'Neill Cylinder, exterior view:


O'Neill Cylinder, interior view:


BT/MW space stations are minuscule by comparison.

Bastion-class System Defense Station (0.345 kilometers in diameter):


Snowden-class Mining Station (0.650 kilometers long, 0.300 lokimeters wide):


Capellan Orbital Prison "Crucible Station" (0.400 kilometers long, 0.450 kilometers wide):


For comparison, the Nimitz-class aircraft carriers fielded by the US Navy are 0.332 kilometers long.


An IS-built Large Laser has an effective range of 450 meters (0.450 kilometers); a medium-range weapon could fire the entire length/diameter of most BT/MW space stations.

Canon BT/MW space stations simply are not big enough to make effective maps for MWO, nor are they built with corridors that could accommodate 40-50 foot tall humanoids (e.g. BattleMechs), so using 'Mechs for any sort of "recover the data cube" type scenario makes no sense from an in-universe perspective.

Also: outside of a very few specific examples (like the RH7S "Space Hound", the Shadow Hawk IIC-7, and the LAMs), 'Mechs are built for land-based combat and do not perform very well - if at all - outside of that environment.

Given that, I think it would be generally better - and probably easier on the Devs, from a workload perspective - to use a hollowed-out asteroid or low-gravity world (which, from Sarna, seems to have a lower-limit of ~0.6g for the known inhabited worlds) rather than an actual ship or space station.

Great post this, but I am sure that I read that mechs are hermetic enviroments and as such able to operate under water or in space aswell, if not specifically designed for that purpose; arent some mechs able to load torpedoes?

[cmopatrick]

steelblueskies, on 01 December 2012 - 04:29 AM, said:

worth noting an underwater mission was also already done in a mw2 title.

i was about to argue with about there being any underwater in 2 (i had/played mw2 original and mercs), but i guess they did have it in the Ghost Bear pack (the one i never had).

a little research has turned up something in canon that i had not thought about in years... underwater is in the BT master rules. since i appeal to canon so much over the ECM, i guess i should back off the argument over underwater. i'll have to accept willing suspension of disbelief the same way i do when a top heavy legged object ignores Newtonian physics to stay perfectly upright on a high speed turn.

[Sears]

JebusGeist, on 29 November 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

Frozen City is definitely sci-fi as well. That there used to be a thriving metropolis until the succession wars happened, now its a dead and frozen wasteland half buried in the snow. No idea why its a battlefield now, maybe theres some strategically or fiscally significant installations left intact on it.

There is a downed dropship/ship so perhaps it has something in it that is worth recovering?



I'd like to see a map set in a Battlemech production facility, with lots of large hangers and buildings to dart in and out of. You can see parts of battlemechs on gantries waiting to be assembled. Chimneys with large plumes of smoke.

I'd also like to see a map set on a volcanic planet, It would be awesome to have more environmental dangers to maps to encourage careful piloting. So for instance if you walk into a lava flow expect your legs to explode. Could also have lava flows/eruptions around the map to add variation and danger.


Edit: There would have to be a facility or something to make it a place to fight over

Edited by Sears, 01 December 2012 - 08:34 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Battle of Defiance Industries.. Mmmmmm.


Also, regarding CryEngine's low grav capabilities:



@2:10

At least the engine used in the first Crysis supported it. And DYNAMIC changes in gravity at that!

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 01 December 2012 - 10:59 AM.

[Woky]

QuantumButler, on 29 November 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

How about mechs fighting over a giant ice asteroid with engines strapped to it being taken to a planet with very little fresh water to use as water supply.

This may have been one of the coolest MW2 Mercs contracts. In the same level of awesomeness as steal the Stalker and the battle for Luthien

[steelblueskies]

if only they remembered the low visibility mission with all the target "crystals" and needing los verification to tell if each was a mech or a crystal, while trying to evade enemy units and find a group of friendlies, when looking at ecm.

still think that mechanic would make an excellent gimmick for a map.

could probably manage something that could give the large ship feel by building something similar to the helm star league cache with a wee bit of improvisation.

heck even just the storage hangar. a giant box filled with powered down mechs and tanks, in row upon row, upon row( was supposed to have housed hundreds of mechs, and even more in parts storage, tanks, etc.. if they did it right using undriven live mech models instead of static backgrounds one could screw with beagle probes powerdown targeting ability, while providing a visually confusing maze that is also destructible. add in the new ecm and that could get interesting fast. can deal with lrm cover through low hanging cave formations peppered through the giant room, and some industrial structures.

further could be divided into a day/night map variation by adding internal lights, or just leaving em off(and finally have an indoor place that needs nv to see, unlike every single cave in game so far).

[Sparks Murphey]

Onyx Rain, on 30 November 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

I'd like to see a lush jungle waterfall map....


I'd like a map that looks like the world from Avatar at night... bioluminescent plants and animals, fireflies...etc..

Running with some inspiration from Onyx Rain, how about a map filled with mega trees, each one big enough to hide a BattleMech behind? There's few places to form a solid chokepoint, but the trees make for a skirmisher's paradise, as there's always somewhere close at hand to buy three or four seconds of respite. By day, the light is dappled green, pushing down through the canopy above to strike to rolling wisps of mist. By night, phosphorescent plants and fungi provide an eerie glow to the area. A few overgrown structures and 'Mechs mark mankind's previous attempt to tame this wilderness, and foretell the future of this battle: whichever side of BattleMechs triumphs here today, they will ultimately lose to the forest tomorrow.

[Strum Wealh]

Sparks Murphey, on 02 December 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

Running with some inspiration from Onyx Rain, how about a map filled with mega trees, each one big enough to hide a BattleMech behind? There's few places to form a solid chokepoint, but the trees make for a skirmisher's paradise, as there's always somewhere close at hand to buy three or four seconds of respite. By day, the light is dappled green, pushing down through the canopy above to strike to rolling wisps of mist. By night, phosphorescent plants and fungi provide an eerie glow to the area. A few overgrown structures and 'Mechs mark mankind's previous attempt to tame this wilderness, and foretell the future of this battle: whichever side of BattleMechs triumphs here today, they will ultimately lose to the forest tomorrow.

So... am I a terrible person for reading this and thinking, "That would be the perfect situation in which to deploy a lance or two of Firestarters (should they ever be implemented)"?

[Lt Limpy]

Obviously a lava planet is needed, full of fire and brimstone, because Caustic Valley is too tame.

[Onyx Rain]

Sparks Murphey, on 02 December 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

Running with some inspiration from Onyx Rain, how about a map filled with mega trees, each one big enough to hide a BattleMech behind? There's few places to form a solid chokepoint, but the trees make for a skirmisher's paradise, as there's always somewhere close at hand to buy three or four seconds of respite. By day, the light is dappled green, pushing down through the canopy above to strike to rolling wisps of mist. By night, phosphorescent plants and fungi provide an eerie glow to the area. A few overgrown structures and 'Mechs mark mankind's previous attempt to tame this wilderness, and foretell the future of this battle: whichever side of BattleMechs triumphs here today, they will ultimately lose to the forest tomorrow.

I approve this idea

[Lt Limpy]

Sparks Murphey, on 02 December 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

Running with some inspiration from Onyx Rain, how about a map filled with mega trees, each one big enough to hide a BattleMech behind? There's few places to form a solid chokepoint, but the trees make for a skirmisher's paradise, as there's always somewhere close at hand to buy three or four seconds of respite. By day, the light is dappled green, pushing down through the canopy above to strike to rolling wisps of mist. By night, phosphorescent plants and fungi provide an eerie glow to the area. A few overgrown structures and 'Mechs mark mankind's previous attempt to tame this wilderness, and foretell the future of this battle: whichever side of BattleMechs triumphs here today, they will ultimately lose to the forest tomorrow.

This was already done in Mechwarrior 2: Ghost Bear's Legacy (though to be fair the trees were little more than giant brown vertically aligned cylinders). I suppose it would be interesting to see something like it again with more detail, but even with buildings included it might hamper the sense of scale.