26 replies to this topic

[Caleb Lee]

Under weapon balancing...

Gauss Rifle is going to become very fragile.

• The Gauss Rifle is going to have it's internal health dropped substantially.
  
• Once armor surrounding a Gauss Rifle has been removed, there is going to be a high probability that the Gauss Rifle will detonate via critical hits when that component gets hit by enemy fire.

"The second question most of you seem to have is, “Wait, can I fit three Gauss rifles in this thing?” The short answer is, “Yes.” The longer answer is, Yes, you can do that, but you’re going to be making a lot of sacrifices.” In order to meet the tonnage requirements for three Gauss rifles, you’re going to have to severely downgrade your engine and armour. And that new engine will probably be an XL, leaving you more vulnerable. You’ll also likely want a few tons of ammo, which means a few more tons used up. Oh, there’s one other thing, it was discovered that the Gauss rifles’ internal explosions weren’t working as intended. This will be fixed in game with the same patch that makes Ilya Muromets available. When a Gauss rifle is disabled, there will be a very high chance that it will explode for 20 points of damage within the Mech.

This amounts to a Mech that may have some powerful weapons, but it will also have a number of vulnerabilities."

They are already easily broken thanks to the changes a couple of patches back. Why make them even weaker AND introduce the explosions from TT rules?

I've been playing since back in early summer in closed beta, so I've seen several iterations of the Gauss Rifle from weapons that could hardly be destroyed to where they are now in that on a K2 they seem to break very easily. I do NOT get this nerf or understand it??

I've already switched to a Cataphract because most players simply aim at the torso and I found the Gauss Rifles too fragile already in my K2. Now... they want to nerf this more and introduce the equivalent of an AC20 round to the torso/arms? WHY??

I get that they want players to use other weapons more, but they already broke SRMs and have yo-yo'd back and forth hugely on LRMs, nerfed energy weapons with DoT and screwed up heat management and DHS.

This is what I was afraid of with it being an MMO. I'm seriously losing faith in the devs ability to balance this game and keep it fun. I don't want to be stuck playing my energy weapons only on my other mechs. I like variety... I guess I can go to Quad AC5 again once the speed boost goes back in or the dumbed down UAC5.

This from a pretty die hard fan of the series... I guess I need to start setting my expectations a LOT lower in the 'spin the wheel' nerf environment this has become.

For now, I'll at least stop spending any money and at worst stop playing. This is like watching an expensive car wreck in slow motion.

Edited by Caleb Lee, 30 November 2012 - 10:35 AM.

[Wildhound]

I voted "Too much - the upcoming change is necessary", but I think the poll options are incorrect. They're not talking about making it more fragile. They're talking about making the weapon detonate like it is supposed to. It's the drawback for not having explosive ammo and it has always been part of the gauss rifle.

Quote

However, if the weapon itself is struck by enemy fire, the capacitors that power the electromagnets will release their stored energy, with an effect similar to an ammo explosion. (In game terms, a critical hit on a Gauss Rifle is equivalent to a 20-point ammo explosion.)

They are fixing something that is not working correctly.

The weapon's fragility is an entirely different issue. Personally I feel it is too fragile at the moment and should probably be made a bit tougher.

Edited by Wildhound, 29 November 2012 - 11:49 PM.

[Oxford]

Gauss Rifles are supposed to explode for 20 points of damage when they take a critical (as the capacitor banks explode).

Where that is coming from it the dreaded table top rules.
They are not nerfing anything.

Edited by Oxford, 29 November 2012 - 11:51 PM.

[Pr8Dator]

+ 100000... no more nerf! Gauss rifle's already not as good as I think it should be.

Edited by Pr8Dator, 29 November 2012 - 11:55 PM.

[p00k]

Oxford, on 29 November 2012 - 11:49 PM, said:

Gauss Rifles are supposed to explode for 20 points of damage when they take a critical (as the capacitor banks explode).

Where that is coming from it the dreaded table top rules.
They are not nerfing anything.

i like the idea of making it more fragile, giving it a weakness without affecting how it functions. going from 10 to 3 is what i've come to realize as standard pgi overkill. i'd rather them go to 6-7 first, and if it's not enough, drop it a bit more, though i suspect there would be no need.
but pgi's balancing strategy to date seems to be wild swings between worthless and godly

[Caleb Lee]

Wildhound, on 29 November 2012 - 11:48 PM, said:

I voted "Too much - the upcoming change is necessary", but I think the poll options are incorrect. They're not talking about making it more fragile. They're talking about making the weapon detonate like it is supposed to. It's the drawback for not having explosive ammo and it has always been part of the gauss rifle.



They are fixing something that is not working correctly.

The weapon's fragility is an entirely different issue. Personally I feel it is too fragile at the moment and should probably be made a bit tougher.

Thanks, amended original post. Good to know they aren't at least pulling it out of thin air. I've still never seen it or heard of it till now though, probably because I didn't play TT. I also voted just right... I feel they are currently as weak as they should be and that's bad enough as is. If they are going to throw in potential damage, then they need to double their current strength.

The only 'ammo explosions' I've had in game are from overheating on Caustic and that was after Open Beta changes.

Oxford, on 29 November 2012 - 11:49 PM, said:

Gauss Rifles are supposed to explode for 20 points of damage when they take a critical (as the capacitor banks explode).

Where that is coming from it the dreaded table top rules.
They are not nerfing anything.

Tell me, what other MW game other than TT has ever exploded Gauss Rifles? Name a book that it happens in? I know it's in TT, but we don't want to start comparing TT and MWO because once we start down that slippery slope we really get to see how badly they botched TT rules up because 'they don't translate well to a fast paced game where players control the aim/movement of the mechs'.

Just for kickers let's toss out missile damage for one? Heat management and heat sinks (DHS??) and all sorts of screwed up decisions. This is a nerf, probably as a result of a mech boating 3 gauss rifles and to head off the whiners who don't understand how weak it really is to fit that many weapons on one mech moving that slow with XL engine and no armor and low ammo.

[Caleb Lee]

Bump?

[Lorchan]

I have always preferred Gauss Rifles even when playing Battle Tech back in the day. During the Beta's I have enjoyed using the Gauss. Now, however, I use it not because of its effectiveness, but because I like the weapon. I have always carried 30 rounds of Ammo to make sure the weapon was usable through an entire battle. Now I find that only one ton of ammo is necessary. Carried in the right torso of my atlas it has not survived in combat longer than the 10 shots in one ton. The weapon is 95% likely to be the first weapon destroyed.
Now the Gauss Rifle is a paper cannon. You can actually expect to use a 15 ton Highly expensive weapon only 10% of the time you play. I wish that I was wrong, but keeping records over several mechs has proven that the weapon has to short a battle life to be effective unless you use it specifically as a sniping weapon and do not engage in close combat. Might not be what the weapon was designed to do, but the high vulnerability relegates it to a pot-shot weapon only.
I feel for the Devs: You must get tired of every tiny change yielding complaint and sarcasm. I hope I have not added to that.
The Devs might feel like the lyrics of an old song: "Since you can't please everyone, you've got to please yourself." I still love the game.

[Volume]

Wow. I see nothing in here about Gauss getting minimum range. I can't believe they're going to let this slide.

That's the real way to start fixing the weapon. Also nothing about BV-based matchmaking, which would make Gauss less appealing. As it stands now, it's so good it's broken (see SSRMs), and because of the netcode, it's one of the few ballistic weapons that are actually viable.

They have other things to fix before making your Gauss explode. Just another C-Bill sink.

Edited by Volume, 01 December 2012 - 10:15 PM.

[Hatachi]

I'm up for anything that makes it act more like the sniping weapon it should be and much less viable than AC20s or 10s in brawling combat.

[Prophet of Entropy]

gauss need to explode when hit. its the only downside to using them other then weight, but its lack of heat ballances its weight.

also in TT it had a minimum range of 60m also in solaris rules it had a lower ROF then autocannons.

you may think they are taking a nerf bat to gauss, but it could be alot worse. right now there is pretty much no reason to run an ac10 over gauss. maybe with this change there will be.

as for it being lost on atlases all the time? for the last week ive run nothing in that side on my atlas but everyone still shoots it, everyone shoots every atlas there. im fine with that take out my endo steel and 1 laser reduce my dps by 10%.

Edited by Prophet of Entropy, 01 December 2012 - 10:40 PM.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

This guns needs some kind of nerf. It's the only Ballistic anyone ever uses!

[DivideByZer0]

Volume, on 01 December 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

Wow. I see nothing in here about Gauss getting minimum range. I can't believe they're going to let this slide.

It's not a solution. It's not canon, and I personally like the direction they are going. Gauss min range would only really help out light mechs, since the gauss carrier would reasonably be able to reposition against other weight classes, while being incapacitated by a much smaller/faster mech. Why would PGI use a solution that only benefits one class of mechs?
That wouldn't help game balancing as a whole.
The proposed solution is more realistic based on canon.
A light mech can still run around behind a gauss mech and shoot it. In fact, once you had removed rear armor, you could incapacitate a torso mounted gauss faster. This also gives a mech carrying an AC20 an advantage over an identical mech carrying gauss in short range battles. Canon would dictate that the gauss rifle will do additional damage to the mech if it is destroyed, since there are many high energy capacitors that will explode. In the case of an XL engine carrying catapault, that will be the end of the battle for him. I agree with the developers solution. Gauss shouldn't do more or less damage, and all other bugs aside, this gives it a distinct edge over AC20 in outright brawl situations, which is how it should be. Gauss has always been the "sniper rifle" of the b-tech universe. It is supposed to be feared and avoided.

[aspect]

Where's the "I don't really care how much health it has or explosive it is, because as a sniper role once people are blowing through my armor I'm probably screwed anyway" option?

My K2 has like 90 points of armor. My gameplan is to drop 2xGR2xPPC alphas on people and avoid taking any damage whatsoever, and generally it works extremely well. Having a high-durability sniper mech is a waste of tonnage imo...if you are getting into a brawl and worrying that an unlucky hit will crit your side torso, then your team has already lost.

Edited by aspect, 01 December 2012 - 11:20 PM.

[Klahn]

DivideByZer0, on 01 December 2012 - 11:01 PM, said:

It's not a solution. It's not canon, and I personally like the direction they are going. Gauss min range would only really help out light mechs, since the gauss carrier would reasonably be able to reposition against other weight classes, while being incapacitated by a much smaller/faster mech. Why would PGI use a solution that only benefits one class of mechs?
That wouldn't help game balancing as a whole.
The proposed solution is more realistic based on canon.
A light mech can still run around behind a gauss mech and shoot it. In fact, once you had removed rear armor, you could incapacitate a torso mounted gauss faster. This also gives a mech carrying an AC20 an advantage over an identical mech carrying gauss in short range battles. Canon would dictate that the gauss rifle will do additional damage to the mech if it is destroyed, since there are many high energy capacitors that will explode. In the case of an XL engine carrying catapault, that will be the end of the battle for him. I agree with the developers solution. Gauss shouldn't do more or less damage, and all other bugs aside, this gives it a distinct edge over AC20 in outright brawl situations, which is how it should be. Gauss has always been the "sniper rifle" of the b-tech universe. It is supposed to be feared and avoided.

Not that I care about the game following canon that much, but the canon gauss rifle DOES have a minimum range.

[Volume]

DivideByZer0, on 01 December 2012 - 11:01 PM, said:

It's not a solution. It's not canon, and I personally like the direction they are going. Gauss min range would only really help out light mechs, since the gauss carrier would reasonably be able to reposition against other weight classes, while being incapacitated by a much smaller/faster mech. Why would PGI use a solution that only benefits one class of mechs?
That wouldn't help game balancing as a whole.
The proposed solution is more realistic based on canon.
A light mech can still run around behind a gauss mech and shoot it. In fact, once you had removed rear armor, you could incapacitate a torso mounted gauss faster. This also gives a mech carrying an AC20 an advantage over an identical mech carrying gauss in short range battles. Canon would dictate that the gauss rifle will do additional damage to the mech if it is destroyed, since there are many high energy capacitors that will explode. In the case of an XL engine carrying catapault, that will be the end of the battle for him. I agree with the developers solution. Gauss shouldn't do more or less damage, and all other bugs aside, this gives it a distinct edge over AC20 in outright brawl situations, which is how it should be. Gauss has always been the "sniper rifle" of the b-tech universe. It is supposed to be feared and avoided.

First off...

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Gauss_Rifle
Minimum range was "2"
Yes, Gauss minimum range is canon.

Secondly, I bolded some parts of inconsistency. Which is it?

AC/20 should be far superior to Gauss at close range. Giving Gauss a minimum range does not negate such a thing, if anything, it gives someone a reason to use an AC/20 over a Gauss instead. If a light closes in on you, sure, headshot him with your AC/20. A minimum range nerf doesn't affect anyone using a Gauss as a sniper rifle if their loadout is balanced, but if they're in a Gaussapult, say, it punishes them for not having adequate backup weaponry or speed, assuming a light is even able to close the distance to said Gaussapult (it probably wouldn't be able to.)

And if you notice, the BV value of a Gauss is like 320, when the BV of an AC/20 is 178. Gauss is nearly 1.8x the battle-value, and if we had BV-based matchmaking, it would change many a thing, including 300XL/Endo/DHS 6SSRM CAT-A1's seen in every game, and Gaussapults beign seen in every game.

On TOP of that, yes, the Gauss should explode, yes it should do damage on crit, I'm saying this is not ENOUGH of a "nerf" as this is how the Gauss should have been since the beginning. It will STILL be a strong weapon if properly utilized.

[anonymous175]

[Volume]

Zeno Scarborough, on 02 December 2012 - 12:37 AM, said:

snip

Yeah, mainly because before Streakapults, 2xGauss K2 was the worst thing to try to brawl against due to the fact that they never overheat (yet your 'Mech does) and deal insane damage at any range.

[Particle Man]

how exactly can we have an opinion on whether the "nerf" is over the top when it's not even in the damn game yet?

how about you save the crying until you actually have something to cry about. i hear that crying about streak cats is all the rage lately. try that one

[QuantumButler]

the nerf is not going to really effect the Catapult K2 at all due the tiny side torsos, the K2 is what makes dual guass OP, dual gauss on a Cataphract is fine, this just means all mechs that use gauss rifles are getting a huge nerf while the K2 will be the only viable gauss platform at all, this is beyond stupid but is just another in a long line of beyond stupid balance changes PGI has made.

Edited by QuantumButler, 02 December 2012 - 02:44 AM.