225 replies to this topic

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

I don't know why it is such a hard concept to NOT reward players that do NOTHING in a game. If you want to stop AFKs/suicides, then take the rewards away! Problem solved! 99% of them would quit doing it the minute that is patched in! People on this forum can't grasp what is, to the rest of us, a very simple solution to a problem. I wish a Dev would read posts like mine and the thread post. They would probably go, "Oh... that makes sense... maybe we should have done that..." But there are so many users on here that are either defending the problem(probably so they can keep AFK farming themselves) or just want the whole playerbase wildly banned while ignoring the cause the problem. Even if you did ban all of them, newer players will take their place. Also, banned players aren't going to hang around to spend money on the game. Just an FYI. Fix the root of the problem first, then you could start handing out suspensions to players deliberately grieving games without any rewards for doing so.

[yashmack]

this thread is still alive??
Ive slept 8 hours and its still being posted on... wow...

[JPsi]

Jason Parker, on 30 November 2012 - 05:47 PM, said:

I have to agree with Teralitha once more. Any solution that does not simply change the root of the problem, which provable is the way how rewards and R&R work, is unnecessarily complicated additional code work that also is likely to produce false positives and hurt people that might die early for doing their job as a scout.

So once again here's what needs to change in my view to offer a pretty failsafe way to not allow exploiting and still earn CBills:

• All Trial mechs are locked until match over (because they got no R&R and thus cycling them provides a money making advantage)
  
• No free Repair. No free Rearms.
  
• Base reward for winning match depends on your mech weightclass and loadout and is exactly the amount of CBills needed to fully repair and rearm your mech. The less damaged you get your mech out of a won match the more of bonus it provides. This mainly gives scouts a chance to earn money when they do a got job, which is keeping an eye on the enemies movement without getting killed/hurt.
  
• Base "reward" for losing is base reward for winning - X%, Not sure about what X should be. But in my view losing should hurt at least a little. Especially if you did nothing.
  
• If you get killed in a match you have to pay FULL R&R, meaning in case of a won game you come out with no base reward, in case of a loss you come out at a loss of CBills unless you gained money through the performance rewards.
  
• Rewards for Kills and kill assists should be equal and be increased.
  
• Reward for Damage done and Salvage should be increased.
  
• Reward for a capping win should be as high as a kill reward + the average damage and salvage for a kill. Then it should be multiplied with the number of mechs that are still alive in the opposing team. This way the system rewards it if you had the better tactics and makes going for a fast cap as desirable as killing the other team. After all Basecap is an objective driven gamemode and no deathmatch and thus fulfilling the objective should be rewarded accordingly.
  
• The reward for cap assist should be increased if needed to balance things.
  
• Being the teammember that initiates the cap should give a reward but not a high one. It shall reflect that initiating a cap causes distraction to the enemy as at least one of them has to go for defense. But it should not create a too high desire to run ahead instead of doing a proper scouting job.
  
• The reward for spotting should be substantially increased so scouts have a way to get rewarded for doing a good job.
  
• Being the first one to lock on a particular enemy should also net a substantial reward so that scouting is worthwhile. This also encourages people to actually use the damned R key.
  
• Rewards for trial mechs should be 75% of the normal rewards as is. Except for base rewards. They should not get a base reward so there is no trial mech bot farming.
  
• New players get a license to get one light mech for free along with some starting CBills for customization. with the change above there is now way around this in my view. Of course the trial mechs in that case should involve more than just one light variant. Maybe make all light variants testable in parallel to the usual trial mech cycle.

Those changes should kill any suicide/run into enemy and get killed farming right away aswell as trialmech farming. With no free repair and rearm that is also not exploitable anymore. With performance rewards being the main source of income it encourages actually playing the match and doing a good tactical job towards either capping or killing all enemy mechs.

As there stays a base reward those changes leave a small window open to afk farmers. But in order for afk farming to be useful the afk mech would need to survive the match, which I believe would be a rare occasion especially in lost matches. We could also create some kind of code of honor to allow the enemy team to kill an afk player to fight them actively. With scouts in mind the alternative of killing R&R and base rewards completely seems undesirable though. So we should rather take the risk of having a few unteachable afk farmers left. But i guess their number would be small enough to make them manageable through bans.

Sorry for the long read.

Just one more thing to add as this comes up pretty often in such discussions: It makes absolutely no sense to account for DCs caused by bugs when discussing such changes and measures as those will hopefully be fixed. Is it bad for the person affected? Of course. But as it happens to everybody alike this stuff levels itself between the players.

A few thoughts/suggestions for improvement on that model. Remove trial mechs completely if players are getting a free to start off with. There seems little point in having them. As for testing variants those available light variants, well if thats the only point of it then remove all c-bill earning capacity from them.

The hurting legit players that try yet still lose is probably not the most new player friendly experience. A new player probably won't get a high kill/assist ratio and will find themselves going backwards quite a lot. I feel a lot will be even more inclined to leave quickly. It's hard as there feels very little room for error with allowing for new players to grow vs removing inclination for the negative behaviour. At worst a new player should be able to hold even, without that it probably won't work.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

The point in them, or at least the point they should have had, is to try out variants for free.

[Chrithu]

JPsi, on 30 November 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

Remove trial mechs completely if players are getting a free to start off with. There seems little point in having them. As for testing variants those available light variants, well if thats the only point of it then remove all c-bill earning capacity from them.

I'd agree if it was to be expected that everybody joining MWO is familiar with Mechwarrior in general. For people new to this all aswell as people that do not like forums and to read up info, the trial mechs are the best and safest way to test heavier mechs and variants to see which they like without wasting their hard earned CBills.

JPsi, on 30 November 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

The hurting legit players that try yet still lose is probably not the most new player friendly experience.

It's hard to get that point across without delivering absolute numbers, which sadly I'm not able and thus not willing to provide. In the system I proposed the rewards for salvage but even more for a capping win should ensure that new players that weren't able to net any of the other rewards and possibly even got killed during the match come out at nearly the same reward as they do now with the fixed and pretty high base rewards.

This still leaves new players with very little gain or even a loss if they constantly lose. Thus it is very important for the third phase of matchmaking to arrive fast so that new players get fair chances to win matches.

Maybe not restricting the weight class for the freely chosen starting mech could be a solution aswell, as a heavier mech possibly increases the chances of a new player to earn money. It's just a question how good the existing playerbase would receive such a change. I wouldn't mind.

Another way of encouraging new players could be an extra CBill reward regardless of the match outcome that they get for their first daily match during their first X Days of playing the game.

I'm not quite sure what to do and I agree that when changing the system of rewards the way I propose we must also think about how to not lose new players along the way. But in my view in the long run there is no way around the proposed changes otherwise this game will be overflooded by farming bots.

Edit: Another idea taken from Taryys' post about new user experience.

Give them free premium time.

Edited by Jason Parker, 30 November 2012 - 07:34 PM.

[JPsi]

Jason Parker, on 30 November 2012 - 06:37 PM, said:

I'd agree if it was to be expected that everybody joining MWO is familiar with Mechwarrior in general. For people new to this all aswell as people that do not like forums and to read up info, the trial mechs are the best and safest way to test heavier mechs and variants to see which they like without wasting their hard earned CBills.



It's hard to get that point across without delivering absolute numbers, which sadly I'm not able and thus not willing to provide. In the system I proposed the rewards for salvage but even more for a capping win should ensure that new players that weren't able to net any of the other rewards and possibly even got killed during the match come out at nearly the same reward as they do now with the fixed and pretty high base rewards.

This still leaves new players with very little gain or even a loss if they constantly win. Thus it is very important for the third phase fo matchmaking to arrive fast so that new players get fair chances to win matches.

Maybe not restricting the weight class for the freely chosen starting mech could be a solution aswell, as a heavier mech possibly increases the chances of a new player to earn money. It's just a question how good the existing playerbase would receive such a change. I wouldn't mind.

Another way of encouraging new players could be an extra CBill reward regardless of the match outcome that they get for their first daily match during their first X Days of playing the game.

I'm not quite sure what to do and I agree that when changing the system of rewards the way I propose we must also think about how to not lose new players along the way. But in my view in the long run there is no way around the proposed changes otherwise this game will be overflooded by farming bots.

Of those ideas the extra C-Bill reward feels like it would be the most effective way of working it. For the rest I agree, I just don't want to see the scenarios of "new player, loses first few games, goes backwards and leaves". With current matchmaking system this happens more often than not. Even with proper matchmaking implemented some new players would still experience this. Should hopefully be minimised with C-Bill reward.

Edited by JPsi, 30 November 2012 - 06:48 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I've been running non-premium, non-founder's Mechs since Tuesday. I make at minimum of 30K profit every single match, with that being the very lowest I earn when I die and my team loses. When I win and live, I can earn 100 grand+ in a match, and every single match I play I'm earning XP.

If that's not good enough for someone, and they feel the need to "farm" for free-cibills so they can cheat their way through the economy of a free game and screw everyone else over, I will report them. If I see 3 people doing it in a match, I report all 3 of them. If I see someone do it on seperate days, I report them on seperate days. I write emails to support@mwomercs.com and just let the notches stack up on their account.

I'll let the Devs "fix" the economy in whatever way is needed, but int the mean time, I am reporting farmers, contributing to my team well, and making plenty of free cash.

[Socket7]

Prosperity Park, on 30 November 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

I've been running non-premium, non-founder's Mechs since Tuesday. I make at minimum of 30K profit every single match, with that being the very lowest I earn when I die and my team loses. When I win and live, I can earn 100 grand+ in a match, and every single match I play I'm earning XP.

If that's not good enough for someone, and they feel the need to "farm" for free-cibills so they can cheat their way through the economy of a free game and screw everyone else over, I will report them. If I see 3 people doing it in a match, I report all 3 of them. If I see someone do it on seperate days, I report them on seperate days. I write emails to support@mwomercs.com and just let the notches stack up on their account.

I'll let the Devs "fix" the economy in whatever way is needed, but int the mean time, I am reporting farmers, contributing to my team well, and making plenty of free cash.

You speak like a trueblood. I salute you, and follow in your footsteps. I reported 4 suicide farmers over the past 2 days.

I hope to meet you in battle some day.

Edited by Socket7, 30 November 2012 - 06:56 PM.

[Scratx]

Trial mechs are also there for granting a way for a player with owned mechs who had real bad luck and doesn't have the c-bills to RnR his mech to get those c-bills.

[p00k]

Prosperity Park, on 30 November 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

I've been running non-premium, non-founder's Mechs since Tuesday. I make at minimum of 30K profit every single match, with that being the very lowest I earn when I die and my team loses. When I win and live, I can earn 100 grand+ in a match, and every single match I play I'm earning XP.

now try it with only trial mechs, and imagine yourself in the shoes of someone who hasn't been playing this game for months
i hate that one team gets handicapped by this sort of behavior, but consider how, even though there's no currency exchange, suicide/afk farming is fairly commonplace. meaning they're farming it for themselves.

now people are saying the solution to this is to make someone be a meat shield (except against other trial mechs) for even longer, before they can buy their own mech and actually put enough heat sinks in it to have fun?

implement a 100% reward for performance system, and yeah, people may stop suiciding. they'll just earn 20k/match, because they simply can't get the kills/assists/damage that custom built mechs do, so now they have to be worthless for several times more matches that last several times longer for them

Edited by p00k, 30 November 2012 - 06:57 PM.

[DraigUK]

I screenshot and report every single one of them I see doing it and hope they get banned for it.

Does the system need improving? Sure.

Is that an excuse for ruining the game for 7 others? No.

Should PGI be lenient on those exploiting? Definitely not, ever.

I'd give them ONE warning, then ban them for a week, then I'd ban them permanently if they continued.

Zero tolerance is the ONLY way to go.

[Parnage Winters]

I feel you got a point but you seem to want to defend the criminal while doing so. Let's be frank those who exploit the system are in the wrong, no doubt about it. They do deserve to be punished they make games less fun. It's not fun fighting a group 8v6 because of a dc and a suicide.

Having said that, you are pretty much dead on, the easiest way to stop this is to improve the economy and have a new user experience that people want to play in. Easiest way to get people to treadmill for a bit is to make that treadmill feel like an epic marathon of awesome. You see this in things like MMO starter zones, solid hooks that make the player want to continue he's not being forced he's being encouraged.

Of course you also need to make sure that players can't fall back into the habbit's of afking/botting/scripting/etc as it ruins the experience for up to fifteen other people.

As far as your "fix" I well.. it's not something I agree with but I am all for throwing out ideas that are fleshed out to at the least promote discussion of the problem/topic.

Edited by Parnage, 30 November 2012 - 07:06 PM.

[Chrithu]

p00k, on 30 November 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

implement a 100% reward for performance system, and yeah, people may stop suiciding. they'll just earn 20k/match, because they simply can't get the kills/assists/damage that custom built mechs do, so now they have to be worthless for several times more matches that last several times longer for them

As I said this is why 1) new players should get an owned mehc for free to start with along with Cbills should the emphasis in the reward system be shifted towards performance rewards (which in my view is inevitable not only for reasons of fighting the exploiters) and 2) additional measure might be needed to enhance the new player experience.

But fixing the reward system so it makes the game enjoyable and less exploitable for the experienced player that knows what he's doing and taking the new player by the hand and lead him towards that level of experience in an enjoyable fashion are seperate matters and thus should be treated seperately and not affect each other.

[DraigUK]

p00k, on 30 November 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

now try it with only trial mechs,

I can earn plenty in trial mechs thanks very much. So can anyone else. See this screenshot? A one off just for S&G.

A week or so old, but without premium active that would have been 102k of pure profit. For a 7 minute game. Stop making excuses for exploiters.

[Teralitha]

JPsi, on 30 November 2012 - 06:59 AM, said:

I have no problem iff it was all positive, unfortunately you seem to fail to recognise the negative along with it.
Ok.. you still missed the most important parts and actually haven't answered with anything besides "it rewards performance". I'll try repeat those. It HURTS the legitimate players.

Your "performance" rewards, give c-bills to individual performance, yet potentially hurt team performance. As I've stated yet you haven't replied to. Kills/assists, caps and scouting are NOT good measures of performance. Sometimes they are, others they are rather inaccurate.

The winner gets the salvage. Salvage is the team performance reward. How can kill/assist cap scouting not be measures of performance, but only sometimes? contradicting yourself.

Measuring performance on ONLY those factors, is a poor measure of performance. There are many small factors in team play that contribute towards a win. Now, I can give individual examples repeatedly for many different situations, but it becomes hard to cover them all. However I'll give one very simple example so hopefully you can understand the point I'm trying to make.

I hate to tell ya this, but the factors I listed, are current factors we have NOW. So your actually saying that the current system is a poor measure of performance, which is false. Here is why - Killing mechs wins the game. Capping the base, wins the game. Doing more damage than your opponant contributes to winning the game. Assisting your teamates in killing other mechs contributes to winning the game. Scouting/targeting the enemy, contributes to winning the game. Not doing any of those contributes to losing the game. Salvage is the reward(in my system) for the whole teams contribution to winning. The loser does not get the salvage, but still gets rewarded for their contribution in their attempt to win.

Scenario : 7 of your team-mates have gone up one side of map. They meet with 5 Opposing Units. You are in a reasonably well armored mech and see the other 3 moving in to flank. You know via the weapons loadouts, that iff you intercept them, you will die, however it should take them quite some time to kill you. In the mean time this would lead to a 7v5 situation which unless something drastic goes wrong, your team should win, leaving the advantage of the match in your teams favor.

Now, decision time, should I intercept, or let them flank? If I let them flank, I have the potential of getting in on all 8 of the kills, thereby potentially getting far more kill assists/kills yet have hurt my own teammates in doing so. Iff I intercept, I'm limited to at most 3 kills/assists total, yet I've made a potentially game winning move.

Do you realize your argueing against the current reward system? However, I will humor you with your scenario. The choice to intercept is dependant on your mech. If its a jenner, you can distract 3 slower mechs all day long by either harrassment, or going for the enemy base. Also if its a jenner, you will have most likely gotten spotting bonuses for scouting by that time, unless your a bad scout. if you are in something bigger(and slower) and your team is all together, and you focus fire it doesnt matter if 3 enemy are flanking you. You will still have a numbers advantage. 8 vs 5(or 3) while the enemy has 2 smaller groups that give them a 5vs8 and a 3vs8. While they are spreading damage on you from 2 angles your 8 are focusing on 1 mech at a time and are likely killing them very very fast, while they are not killing you very fast. This is a simple numbers comparison. If you then take into account skill, you could have any number of different results, however, if the more skilled team prevails even when the odds are against them, then they are rewarded with more kills/assists and salvage and damage done. You really could look at that scenario a thousand different ways and come up with all kinds of results that support both sides of the argument. Anyway... remember, you arguing against the current rewards system. Fight with PGI about it if you think it sucks.

Now.. under the Current system, the 20k win reward (difference between loss and win) is far greater than than the potential earnings from the extra kills/assists I personally get. I have the incentive to intercept. Under your proposal, the incentive would have been to let them flank.

Your forgetting with my system there is no repair bill, and alone cancels out a win/loss reward. Which is why you dont need either. One cancels out the other. Currently all it does is gives you 'free' cbills for doing nothing. As you can turn off auto repair/re-arm and then go into the next match and suicide, and pay nothing to repair/re-arm and collect ALL the free cbills. Whereas if you had repaired/re-armed, it would have cancelled out the free cbills and just been mostly your performance rewards anyway.

Now, I've just shown you a very clear example of how your system promotes screwing over your own team for personal profit.
Long post, sorry about that also. I have difficulty in trying to explain this in a short and simple manner. This is only one example of many. Its for these reasons that I'm advocating many of the other ways of dealing with the grief being caused than this proposal.

All you did was show me an example of what can happen in a game RIGHT NOW with the current system. The only difference between systems is that one(mine) prevents suiciders, and macroers, and afkers... And the current system, does not.

hope this clears it up.

[Teralitha]

Prosperity Park, on 30 November 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

I'll let the Devs "fix" the economy in whatever way is needed, but in the mean time, I am reporting farmers, contributing to my team well, and making plenty of free cash.

Win/loss is always free cash. All the other rewards are earned!

JPsi, on 30 November 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

Ok.. Let me put this really simple for you. As you actually still miss or deliberately ignore my point.

Kills/Assists and Damage are NOT performance!

You aren't rewarding performance! I just explained how and why, with example. You have not actually responded to the issue.

I'm all for something that rewards performance, currently the best indication of a teams performance is actually winning. Whats to now stop a player from just doing a full MG build, hitting every mech then dying? They get a hit on all so get counted for assists on all the players. Did they perform? NO

Sigh... such a blind person you are.

Since you cant seem to relate performance rewards with... well.. performance, tell us, what is your definition of performance? What must we do(in your eyes) to perform well and have that performance calculated(by your standards)and rewarded?

Because clearly you dont think that -

kills = performance
damage = performance
assists = performance
scouting(spotting) = performance
base capturing = performance
Salvage reward = performance

If those variables(in your eyes) do not gauge performance... then what does? And how is it gauged? because frankly, your sounding like a lunatic here.... PGI uses those variables, just thought I should point that out before you answer.

Oh, and so does every other similar game in existence I might add.

Edited by Teralitha, 30 November 2012 - 07:59 PM.

[JPsi]

The winner gets the salvage. Salvage is the team performance reward. How can kill/assist cap scouting not be measures of performance, but only sometimes? contradicting yourself.

When its more profitable to hit once on every mech, just to make sure you are in on each assist, than it is to potentially miss out on assists and work with the team.

I hate to tell ya this, but the factors I listed, are current factors we have NOW. So your actually saying that the current system is a poor measure of performance, which is false. Here is why - Killing mechs wins the game. Capping the base, wins the game. Doing more damage than your opponant contributes to winning the game. Assisting your teamates in killing other mechs contributes to winning the game. Scouting/targeting the enemy, contributes to winning the game. Not doing any of those contributes to losing the game. Salvage is the reward(in my system) for the whole teams contribution to winning. The loser does not get the salvage, but still gets rewarded for their contribution in their attempt to win.

Under the current reward system, kills/assists are not the MAJOR source of income. The direct reward of winning exceeds them. Salvage is just not enough incentive to try for the win, most importantly when a form of winning will mean less salvage (Ie. capping early).

he choice to intercept is dependant on your mech. If its a jenner, you can distract 3 slower mechs all day long by either harrassment, or going for the enemy base. Also if its a jenner, you will have most likely gotten spotting bonuses for scouting by that time, unless your a bad scout. if you are in something bigger(and slower) and your team is all together, and you focus fire it doesnt matter if 3 enemy are flanking you. You will still have a numbers advantage. 8 vs 5(or 3) while the enemy has 2 smaller groups that give them a 5vs8 and a 3vs8. While they are spreading damage on you from 2 angles your 8 are focusing on 1 mech at a time and are likely killing them very very fast, while they are not killing you very fast. This is a simple numbers comparison. If you then take into account skill, you could have any number of different results, however, if the more skilled team prevails even when the odds are against them, then they are rewarded with more kills/assists and salvage and damage done. You really could look at that scenario a thousand different ways and come up with all kinds of results that support both sides of the argument. Anyway... remember, you arguing against the current rewards system. Fight with PGI about it if you think it sucks.

There are multiple ways of looking at it, however if you as a player should see the situation and feel that its better to have your team suffer, to increase your profits then there is something wrong. If a game consistently rewards such behaviour, the fault is with the model.

Currently the major reward is winning in itself, salvage/kill assists and damage are all secondary rewards. This promotes working together. Kill assists/damage are in themselves secondary measures of performance. They are not direct. A person can perform well, assist in securing a win to the team without excessively getting aiming for those stats.

"All you did was show me an example of what can happen in a game RIGHT NOW with the current system. The only difference between systems is that one(mine) prevents suiciders, and macroers, and afkers... And the current system, does not.

hope this clears it up."

No, my example was extrapolated to your system, it clearly showed how a person farming would attempt to do the wrong thing by their team as they thought of it, in an attempt to generate more coin. That would be under YOUR system.

So simply put, there are other Models that will remove the incentive for suicide farming/griefing and all the issues you have brought up, without promoting a lot of selfish/griefing behaviour. I'm not against your model, I'm looking for something better.
Your current model does not ONLY do what you said it does, it is not the only difference. It impacts upon those that work with the team but don't get such high stats.

[JPsi]

Teralitha, on 30 November 2012 - 07:58 PM, said:

Win/loss is always free cash. All the other rewards are earned! Sigh... such a blind person you are. Since you cant seem to relate performance rewards with... well.. performance, tell us, what is your definition of performance? What must we do(in your eyes) to perform well and have that performance calculated(by your standards)and rewarded? Because clearly you dont think that - kills = performance damage = performance assists = performance scouting(spotting) = performance base capturing = performance Salvage reward = performance If those variables(in your eyes) do not gauge performance... then what does? And how is it gauged? because frankly, your sounding like a lunatic here.... PGI uses those variables, just thought I should point that out before you answer. Oh, and so does every other similar game in existence I might add.

By your logic why not just have a simple K/DR being a measure of performance? There is known reason why this is a bad idea.

All those are "measures" of performance, but there is no one ultimate measure. As such they are inaccurate as they miss the many other decisions players make along the way. This is why primarily the main source of income should always be the team winning. No, I don't think salvage counts for that.

They are bad when measured only by themselves.

Now, please refrain from directly insulting me with comments about being blind/ondrugs/trolling. I've deliberately avoided doing the same to you and only focused on your logic/proposal. Attack the argument, not me. I've given you that courtesy.

Edited by JPsi, 30 November 2012 - 08:19 PM.

[Chrithu]

Could you guys do us all a favor and at least stop the full quotes when you have to go on with that argument?

And to contribute to the argument (sorry to everyone else). JPsi is right:

If the reward system is changed to emphasize on rewarding performance (and i do think this should be done), then by all means you must cover ALL aspects that contribute to getting your team ahead (which the current system and your proposal in the OP both do not do) and you must balance them so that the two ways of winning (cap and kill enemy team) result in the same reward.

[PhaelanPKell]

Bluten, on 30 November 2012 - 02:21 AM, said:

Nice to see that someone else gets it. The problem is the economy. Until that is fixed, they shouldn't be touching players. Fix the disease, don't just treat the symptoms. Remove rewards from AFKs and suicides. If a guy dies <2mins into a match, obviously he killed himself intentionally or ran into the enemy team to die as fast as possible. It shouldn't be complicated for you to remove the rewards from these players. If a guy did nothing at all in a match, don't give him any money. Why are you paying players to do NOTHING then threatening to punish them for it? Why not just... NOT pay them? Fix the economy first, then you can separate the farmers from the grievers. People that continue to do these once rewards are removed can then be identified as grievers and punished properly without unnecessary collateral damage to players just trying to farm.

First of all I want to say I have played all the past MechWarrior games.

I have read the books I even named my son after a hero.

To be honest I sucked at the MW4 and the rest. I suck at playing MWO that being said I'd like to point out that not all people that get killed in the first 2 min of a match are suiciders. I am usually one of the first to die. I love trying to get in there and take out that big Atlas. But my computer is slow and jitters so it's very hard to target when you have 3 LRM from different mechs firing at you and pounding the Cat into the ground. I have 3 kills to my name and probably 200+ deaths Yes I die in the first 2 min but I'm not a suicider. So why punish me for dying fast?

It is a game it's a blast I love it and trying to stay alive.

I have also noticed that when you get down to the last mech standing (usually at the home base) no one is piloting the mech, do you think it's an afk'er or maybe they got the black screen and couldn't play so they left the round. I have had that happen a couple times. My mech is still in the round so I can't launch another until the current is done. I'm not an afk'er I just couldn't play that round. Why punish me for something I can't control.

I have been killed by my own team as I'm sure everyone else has. Yes that person should be punished and not paid a MC one.

I'm not saying that all people are doing what I have said but you have to stop and think about punishment. Things happen and will continue to happen. It is a computer game. Bugs happen they get taken care of then more bugs happen. Ever played WOW you'll know what I'm talking about.