99 replies to this topic

[Xeven]

Making Guass fragile is wrong way to balance it. I agree dual Guass is a bit OP and 3 will be even more Op. Making it fragile/unreliable will essentialy mean people wont equip it. That is a bad way to balance weapons in a game.

Just like your UAC 5 Nurf you made is so it is less fun to use by making it Jam 25% of the time so they are now just shelf items taking up memory on most of our computers. Why not just get rid of them instead?

Making sutff unreliable is a very bad idea for a game. You want people to enjoy the game so they will play it? Your taking away options when you change something to the point people no longer want to equip it.

Find another way to balance Gauss and the UAC's for that matter. YOU WANT PEOPLE to enjoy the features in the game not have them just be pixels on the screen.

You could increase Gauss firing delay or make it run hotter, or when two or more are fired at same time have them malfunction? Perhaps Group firing more than one at a time causes them to collide when fired and turns the round sinto fragments like LBX. I duno but making it so I wont want to equip it is a bad bad thing IMO>

Making it fragile, thus unreliable just means you have game content that wont be used and enjoyed.

Rethink before you ruin your own content and features.

Edited by Xeven, 30 November 2012 - 08:02 AM.

[Undead Bane]

Xeven, on 30 November 2012 - 07:59 AM, said:

Making Guass fragile is wrong way to balance it. I agree dual Guass is a bit OP and 3 will be even more Op. Making it fragile/unreliable will essentialy mean people wont equip it. That is a bad way to balance weapons in a game.

Just like your UAC 5 Nurf you made is so it is less fun to use by making it Jam 25% of the time so they are now just shelf items taking up memory on most of our computers. Why not just get rid of them instead?

Making sutff unreliable is a very bad idea for a game. You want people to enjoy the game so they will play it? Your taking away options when you change something to the point people no longer want to equip it.

Find another way to balance Gauss and the UAC's for that matter. YOU WANT PEOPLE to enjoy the features in the game not have them just be pixels on the screen.

You could increase Gauss firing delay or make it run hotter, or when two or more are fired at same time have them malfunction?

Making it fragile thus unreliable just means you have game content that wont be used and enjoyed.

Rethink before you ruin your own content and features.

It is one of the ways. We will try it, they will see the statistics.
Oh, and if you think about UAC5s as shelf weapons - try to play more. Lots of UAC5 carriers in each match.

[Vassago Rain]

Undead Bane, on 30 November 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

It is one of the ways. We will try it, they will see the statistics.
Oh, and if you think about UAC5s as shelf weapons - try to play more. Lots of UAC5 carriers in each match.

UAC5 was good for about 2 hours, before they upped the jam chance to 25%.

[Jason1138]

making guass explode is the TT solution to it. guass has a minimum range in TT as well

making it run hotter goes against TT. its a high damage, low heat, long range weapon with non-exploding ammo. those are the perks. the negatives are size and weight and that the gun itself likes to blow up

in other words, its a sniping weapon. if you're putting it on an atlas or a cat and wading into a fight at close range, you deserve what you get. if you want to brawl mount an AC20

i see way too many guys with ER PPCs and ER LL's charging straight ahead to engage at 100 meters and its really dumb. if you mount sniper weapons, be a sniper

[Orzorn]

I think you just about had the right idea but went down the wrong argument path:
Making Gauss fragile won't hurt Gausscats pretty much at all. Sure, the Gauss will be easier to destroy, but will their side torso ever be hit for it to even happen?

Perhaps the fragility is a good nerf (I don't believe it will be. Poor Atlas Ks already loss the things fast enough. Still, I'll test it and see whether my opinion holds water), but the worst exploiter of Gauss isn't really even affected by it.

One thing I hear often, however, from Catapult pilots no less, is that their heads are apparently huge and easy to hit. I've played cats and can't say that I personally felt that was true, but whatever, lets kill two birds with one stone: Increase the size of their side torso hit box. Obviously, this means their center torso and head hit boxes must shrink as well.

Thus, damage will spread more around on Catapults, side torsos will take more damage, and Gausscats will actually suffer from the nerf like all the other mechs, as opposed to ignoring it due to their tiny tiny side torsos. At the same time, Catapults will get hit less in the head and also less in the center torso.

Does this seem reasonable?

Edited by Orzorn, 30 November 2012 - 08:06 AM.

[Khobai]

BV is how gauss is balanced in tabletop. And its why we need BV in this game.

[AHZeruel]

Making Gauss fragile makes it a risky choice for a brawl, that's all. and thats all it needs.

I dont see people being headshot nowadays, not much at least, and this will help it keep its sniper profile, while leaving AC's its rightful place on the front lines.

i like the change

[AvatarofWhat]

Xeven, on 30 November 2012 - 07:59 AM, said:

Making it fragile/unreliable will essentialy mean people wont equip it.

You really think that? It's still an awesome weapon and you still have to lose all your armor before it even gets the chance of being critted and possibly exploding. It won't even explode all the time and if your worried put on C.A.S.E. Making it fragile is a clever way to make it more balanced.

[Vassago Rain]

AHZeruel, on 30 November 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

Making Gauss fragile makes it a risky choice for a brawl, that's all. and thats all it needs.

I dont see people being headshot nowadays, not much at least, and this will help it keep its sniper profile, while leaving AC's its rightful place on the front lines.

i like the change

Not really.
I'm in a fatlas.

You shoot my right side out anyway, because that's where the gauss is it. Once my armor's gone, it tends to disintegrate in a single hit. Then you take off the unarmored remains of my side.

With this, nothing changes for me. It doesn't do anything to any gauss user, except the tiny, tiny handful who have to wield them on their arms, and can't CASE them.

[Mu]

All they had to do was increase the recycle time. K2s are still gonna rarely lose side torsos and my Atlas is still gonna shoot it every 3 seconds for no heat and tons of damage.

[Xeven]

AvatarofWhat, on 30 November 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

You really think that? It's still an awesome weapon and you still have to lose all your armor before it even gets the chance of being critted and possibly exploding. It won't even explode all the time and if your worried put on C.A.S.E. Making it fragile is a clever way to make it more balanced.

Dev's seem to Always over do nurfs. My main fear is they will make it so fragile that none will want to use it and thats just not a good solution. I may be wrong and they may get it right.

Edited by Xeven, 30 November 2012 - 08:13 AM.

[AvatarofWhat]

Xeven, on 30 November 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

Dev's seem to Always over do nurfs. My main fear is they will make it so fragile that none will want to use it and thats just not a good solution. I may be wrong and they may get it right.

Well I do understand your viewpoint that they always overdo nerfs. Fair enough, but I really don't think this will be the case with the gauss.

[Starmage21]

Xeven, on 30 November 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

Dev's seem to Always over do nurfs. My main fear is they will make it so fragile that none will want to use it and thats just not a good solution. I may be wrong and they may get it right.

A single crit on the tabletop induced a 20pt ammo explosion. The gauss rifle has always been fragile, and every weapon that hit an unarmored location had about a 40% chance to suffer one or more crits.

[Dodger79]

AvatarofWhat, on 30 November 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

You really think that? It's still an awesome weapon and you still have to lose all your armor before it even gets the chance of being critted and possibly exploding. It won't even explode all the time and if your worried put on C.A.S.E. Making it fragile is a clever way to make it more balanced.

In about every second to third game i play it seems my Gauss gets critted even before all armor is stripped of, regardless what Mech i'm in (experienced that in a Hunchback, every Atlas and 3 Cataphracts). I seem to lose my Gauss _way_ before my armor or any other weapon even before this announced nerf.

[AvatarofWhat]

Dodger79, on 30 November 2012 - 08:59 AM, said:

In about every second to third game i play it seems my Gauss gets critted even before all armor is stripped of, regardless what Mech i'm in (experienced that in a Hunchback, every Atlas and 3 Cataphracts). I seem to lose my Gauss _way_ before my armor or any other weapon even before this announced nerf.

That does not happen to me very often, maybe twice in over 1000 games. It's a known bug that will hopefully be addressed soon. I'm sorry you seem to suffer from it more then most.

[Felbombling]

The problem with the Gauss Rifle is that they are late adding the second edge to the sword. Had they been fragile at the beginning, like they should have been, they would have been in balance. I think it had something to do with critical hits not being in effect at that time, or something. Making the Gauss Rifle fragile is the best possible way to balance it right now, and any argument against the idea must be coming from someone who has learned to love them as is... flawed. This is easily understandable, of course. I mean... who wouldn't fall in love with the Gauss a few months ago?

[the Gingerbread Man]

The gauss rifle and AC20 already die almost instantly when armor is stripped (see: hunch, centurion, atlas, cataphract). The K2 doesn't easily have side torso armor stripped. This change simply further gimps the already-fine builds further and does nothing to the only problem build.

Cataphract can also run dual gauss, but unlike the K2 it suffers convergence issues and the armor (and thus, weapon) can be stripped with relative ease.

[Orzorn]

StaggerCheck, on 30 November 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

and any argument against the idea must be coming from someone who has learned to love them as is... flawed.

Even you have to know that is horse hockey. Opposition to an idea does not mean support of the way it currently is.

Gauss was imbalanced because they took a major weakness from the TT and left it out of the game. Minimum range might not make sense realistically (then again, recent actual rail gun tests suggest the intense kinetic energy of a high velocity round leaving the barrel will cause it to expend very little to shoot right through a target if its too close, meaning those sort of weapons actually do have a kind of minimum range), but neither do gigantic walking machines, 1 km range missiles, and other such things. But from a gameplay perspective, it was extremely important to the balance of the Gauss rifle.

And I don't care about strict adherence to the TT, but the fact that the much weaker PPC has a minimum range purely for TT reasons whereas the Gauss does not raises some really odd flags, and that one choice has caused a whole slew of balance issues.

If they can balance the Gauss through other means, fine, whatever, but remember that the Gauss will always exhibit unexpected behaviors because of the lack of a minimum range.

Edited by Orzorn, 30 November 2012 - 09:31 AM.

[Starmage21]

StaggerCheck, on 30 November 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

The problem with the Gauss Rifle is that they are late adding the second edge to the sword. Had they been fragile at the beginning, like they should have been, they would have been in balance. I think it had something to do with critical hits not being in effect at that time, or something. Making the Gauss Rifle fragile is the best possible way to balance it right now, and any argument against the idea must be coming from someone who has learned to love them as is... flawed. This is easily understandable, of course. I mean... who wouldn't fall in love with the Gauss a few months ago?

The problem is that pretty much all weapon systems in the game are supposed to be relatively fragile. A single crit to any multi-crit weapon puts the weapon out of commission. The weakness of the gauss rifle was that it took up a large number of crit slots and freaking explodes when one is hit.


*edit* Language DERP

Edited by Starmage21, 30 November 2012 - 09:35 AM.

[Aidan Malchor]

Vassago Rain, on 30 November 2012 - 08:11 AM, said:

Not really.
I'm in a fatlas.

You shoot my right side out anyway, because that's where the gauss is it. Once my armor's gone, it tends to disintegrate in a single hit. Then you take off the unarmored remains of my side.

With this, nothing changes for me. It doesn't do anything to any gauss user, except the tiny, tiny handful who have to wield them on their arms, and can't CASE them.

But will CASE apply to the guass rifle itself? Isn't CASE just to prevent ammo explosions from tearing your mech apart?

I do think it will help balance the gauss a bit. You can hit a cat's side torso's it's just not easy unless your shooting them from the side.